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Nabobalis
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Christians who do not read the bible literately and take the world to be 6000 to 10000 years old etc (i.e the vast majority of Christian sects)
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And WHAT is a non-creationist Christian??
Christians who do not read the bible literately and take the world to be 6000 to 10000 years old etc (i.e the vast majority of Christian sects)
For the purposes of this forum, to avoid confusion, why don't we agree that "Christians' are those who subscribe to the Nicene Creed or the Apostles' Creed. Neither of those even mentions the Bible.So in other words they're not really very good Christians, IF Christians at all.
Did he take every word of the Torah literally? Where did he say so?Jesus took God's word literally so why don't they?
Unless they have reason to think the teacher got some things wrong.Shouldn't a disciple FOLLOW what their teacher teaches?
So do most Christians return good for evil? Give to everyone who asks? Take no thought for tomorrow? Pray privately?They aren't very good followers of Jesus now are they? It only makes sense that a disciple will do what their master tells them or they really AREN'T disciples.
Jesus was a creationist. He taught this.
So what? He is allowed to be wrong about things.Mar 10:6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
There was no abiogenesis going on in that statement. He didn't believe in that. He believed... in the beginning God made them male and female... Adam and Eve!! Plain and simple. He believed in Genesis.
To which today's Christians could reply, "haven't you read anything at all about modern cosmolgy, geology, psychology or biology? But in any case, he didn't say to read what he said. He didn't say to read the Bible. Most of those he spoke to couldn't read. He told them to do what he said: Forgive, give, don't make a show of your piety, forgive, don't be judgemental, forgive, use a little sense and mercy when applying the law, don't cast stones unless you are sinless, don't worry about tomorrow, forgive.Today if He spoke with these so called Christians you speak of, He would probably say "haven't you read what I said?" or "haven't you read Genesis?"
Then He would ask,
And if you do what your alledged master says, it doesn't matter whether you believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible.Luk 6:46 Why do you keep on saying that I am your Lord, when you refuse to do what I say?
Luk 6:47 Anyone who comes and listens to me and obeys me
Luk 6:48 is like someone who dug down deep and built a house on solid rock. When the flood came and the river rushed against the house, it was built so well that it didn't even shake.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not greater than his master, but everyone whose learning is complete will be like his master.
Well according to the rules of this forum, at least, to be a Christian, it is necessary to suscribe to the Nicene or the Apostles' Creed. If you restrict the lable to those who follow what Jesus taught, who do what he said to do, you could probably count the number of Christians in the world at any given time on one hand.Let me tell you what the Bible says a Christian is. A Christian is a "disciple" or "follower" of Jesus Christ. That's easy. Plainly written. Don't need an interpreter for that. A child could understand that. So why can't people get that just because a person SAYS they are a Christian does not mean they ARE a Christian. You have to be a FOLLOWER of Christ to be a Christian. You know ... follow what He teaches.
Well there you go! Christians are not the disciples of Jesus. They are the disciples of Paul.Act 11:26 And when he had come across him, he took him to Antioch. And they were with the church there for a year, teaching the people; and the disciples were first given the name of Christians in Antioch.
And neither did the followers of Jesus, most of whom couldn't read.But I guess you were right on one point these people do not read the Bible... literally!!
The main thrust was that you should define your terms. On this forum, a Christian is one who subscribes to at least one of the two Creeds cited, neither of which even mentions the Bible.Originally posted by Gracchus; 57588291
For the purposes of this forum, etc. etc. etc....
And on and on without any main thrust. ]
I haven't thrown any stones at all. I haven't, for instance, called you a liar.Or you are just going to throw stones in all directions just to disrupt the thread and distract people who do want to read some definite direction the thread is into?
Please choose one issue and then narrow down the issue into a very specific direction, then we will get to exchange thoughts profitably for everyone here who want to read something that is well narrowed down, instead of you throwing stones in all directions to no specific purpose but just so that you disrupt the thread.
You seem to have stones on the brain, or is it merely rocks in your No, I won't go there.I am trying to determine what is your #1 purpose in writing, so far it seems to be throwing stones in all directions just to disrupt the thread you go into.
I am a panentheist. Does that make you wrong?Tell me if I am mistaken, you are an atheist, yes, no?
You first!Okay yes, now what particular issue do you want to espouse in your atheist heart and mind, and you want the rest of mankind to know about, so that mankind can benefit from your contribution in their life and deeds, thus they will be better off?
Well, by the laws of genetics, I was born with a nose. I don't know what that has to do with Issues in Scienceville.For example, you can go into showing mankind that there is no design in the whole realm of existence, and you will concede that at most it is all appearance of design, including and starting with the nose in your face, that there is no design by which it stays in your face instead of falling off and dropping to the ground, and that appearance of design is enough to keep your nose in your face.
You are becoming incoherent. Perhaps you should take a break.Otherwise you are into throwing stones in all directions to show what? that you are so what?
I am not a follower of Christianity. I do think that Jesus was a wise teacher who tried to tell us how to save ourselves.Originally posted by Gracchus; 57588849Pleased to meet a panentheist.
[...]
I am a panentheist. ...
[...]
So, you are not an atheist, but you do not like Christianity, yes? no?
Let's move this back to your thread.This forum does not mind digression, am I correct?
That would not be appropriate to this thread.Or would you rather go back to the fundamental concept of God in the Christian faith in relation to the universe, I like very much to hear your views on panentheism.
That really doesn't matter to me. If I were a liar, I might take offense at the truth, but that offense would not be justified. If I am not a liar, then I can ignore the charge, or defend myself against it, as I deem appropriate.I promise not to call you a liar anymore.
I too would like to know what a non-creationist Christian is.
Even theistic evolutionists believe in creation.
So in other words they're not really very good Christians, IF Christians at all. Jesus took God's word literally so why don't they? Shouldn't a disciple FOLLOW what their teacher teaches? They aren't very good followers of Jesus now are they? It only makes sense that a disciple will do what their master tells them or they really AREN'T disciples.
Jesus was a creationist. He taught this.
Mar 10:6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
There was no abiogenesis going on in that statement. He didn't believe in that. He believed... in the beginning God made them male and female... Adam and Eve!! Plain and simple. He believed in Genesis.
Today if He spoke with these so called Christians you speak of, He would probably say "haven't you read what I said?" or "haven't you read Genesis?"
Mat 19:4 And He answered and said unto them, "Have ye not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"
Then He would ask,
Luk 6:46 Why do you keep on saying that I am your Lord, when you refuse to do what I say?
Luk 6:47 Anyone who comes and listens to me and obeys me
Luk 6:48 is like someone who dug down deep and built a house on solid rock. When the flood came and the river rushed against the house, it was built so well that it didn't even shake.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not greater than his master, but everyone whose learning is complete will be like his master.
Let me tell you what the Bible says a Christian is. A Christian is a "disciple" or "follower" of Jesus Christ. That's easy. Plainly written. Don't need an interpreter for that. A child could understand that. So why can't people get that just because a person SAYS they are a Christian does not mean they ARE a Christian. You have to be a FOLLOWER of Christ to be a Christian. You know ... follow what He teaches.
Act 11:26 And when he had come across him, he took him to Antioch. And they were with the church there for a year, teaching the people; and the disciples were first given the name of Christians in Antioch.
But I guess you were right on one point these people do not read the Bible... literally!!
So in other words they're not really very good Christians, IF Christians at all.
Jesus took God's word literally so why don't they?
Shouldn't a disciple FOLLOW what their teacher teaches? They aren't very good followers of Jesus now are they? It only makes sense that a disciple will do what their master tells them or they really AREN'T disciples.
There was no abiogenesis going on in that statement. He didn't believe in that. He believed... in the beginning God made them male and female... Adam and Eve!! Plain and simple. He believed in Genesis.
Today if He spoke with these so called Christians you speak of, He would probably say "haven't you read what I said?" or "haven't you read Genesis?"
Er ... no ... the Old Testament saints got saved the same way we do; with a minor exception: they looked forward to the Cross, whereas we look back at it.If he hadn't, there'd be no offer of salvation, now would there?
Er ... no ... the Old Testament saints got saved the same way we do; with a minor exception: they looked forward to the Cross, whereas we look back at it.
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Psalm 3:8 Salvation belongeth unto the LORD: thy blessing is upon thy people. Selah.
From John Wesley's notes:Too bad they're not referring to Jesus or the cross -- nice try, tho.
See also:The word Goel, here used; properly agrees to Jesus Christ:
Evidently you don't take your own advice.Actually, it's the duty of a student to surpass the teacher -- otherwise, how does anybody learn?
From John Wesley's notes
Someone whose notes say you're wrong.And who is John Wesley that I should care what he thinks?
Someone whose notes say you're wrong.
One of your divinity clones?And my notes say he's wrong.
I'll repeat the question: Who is he that I should care what he thinks?
That is all well and good but the vast majority (i.e 95% or more) are not literalist that accept the earth is 6 days old. You should take it up with those Christians. not with me. But those Christians that you gave in your examples most likely did not believe in YEC.
But I think we are going off topic.
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