Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[GraceInHim]

The Church is the true Israel. Within her all those Jews and Gentiles who have true faith in Christ are made one in His Body (Ephesians 2:11-14).

Near the time of the end many Jews will be converted to Christ and brought into the true Israel. Once all of the people - Jew and Gentile - who are to be saved have been brought into Israel (the Church), "so that all Israel will be saved," the Lord will return the second time to earth.

amen

 

[TreesNTrees]

I agree... I don't think God really cares if Israel has their land back or not... the real Israel are the Christians today.

That makes a lot of sense.

The post after this of yours near the beginning said that Israel were God's chosen people.

The "were" part is the only biblical part of that.

There was an Israel in the old days, and is was God's people. That Israel is ON HOLD - IN ABEYANCE - because now Christians are God's chosen people.

Anybody now that opposes God's salvation and message of deliverance for sonship is an enemy of God.

As Jesus said, he who is not with me is against me.

On the spiritual plane of living, the modern Israel, if they even be decendants of those who crucified and rejected Jesus, are not with God. They are rejectors of God's salvation plan.

It may be partly due to thier upbringing. But every person on earth has a conscience and a will. If anyone sincerely hungers in life to know what the truth is, they can know the truth if it's available. And today, there are few barriers for the Word of God to get to anyone who claims to be Israel.

 

[Ave Maria]

I want there to be peace in the Middle East regardless of how that peace comes about. I just hope that any final peace will come about through peaceful means like discussion and dialogue.

 

[GraceInHim]

I want there to be peace in the Middle East regardless of how that peace comes about. I just hope that any final peace will come about through peaceful means like discussion and dialogue.

 

[horuhe00]

We could always lobby Bush and his gang to expand the war on terror, invade Cyria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and give the land to Israel.

With enough incentives($$$), I'm sure they'll go for it!

 

[Scholar in training]

We could always lobby Bush and his gang to expand the war on terror, invade Cyria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and give the land to Israel.

You should expect nothing less from a Zionist country full of kafirs.

 

[GraceInHim]

The Land has been starting to get divided already, what is the purpose of this thread.. we know Jesus returns there in the end

 

[Tishri1]

everyone should look at this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/imagine/imagine_n.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/conen/conflict_2.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/nutoo/nutshell3.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/trial/trial.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/pipeline_of_hatred.html

then make you final discision

 

[Tishri1]

I've seen estimates that show as little as 10 percent of the Jewish population in Israel is comprised of religious Jews.

this is simply not true.......the problem is the definition of terms. To us "religious" is anyone who believes in God, and to them "religious" means the Ultra Orthodox Jews....they almost all believe in God the same way we do, but wouldn't consider themselves "Religious" unless they followed the strictest legal code....like the Ulta Orthodox do.

 

[GraceInHim]

everyone should look at this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/imagine/imagine_n.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/conen/conflict_2.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/nutoo/nutshell3.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/trial/trial.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/pipeline_of_hatred.html

then make you final discision

thanks, those were educational sites first one was very sad

 

[Tishri1]

NEVER SAID the OT isn't any good. BUt it is IMPOSSIBLE to properly understand the OT without the NT to interpret it for us.

OT does NOT stand by itself. EVER.

NT interprets OT. ALWAYS.

K

actually it is impossible to understand the NT w/o the OT and equally impossible to understand the OT w/o understanding the Chosen People, their ways and their world... Don't kill them off to fast or the true interpretation of the whole bible may be lost to us who are merely grafted in...

 

[GraceInHim]

We could always lobby Bush and his gang to expand the war on terror, invade Cyria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and give the land to Israel.

With enough incentives($$$), I'm sure they'll go for it!

the biggest problem festering right now is Iran.. the Government wants Israel wiped off the map, and if these fanactics are willing to kill innocent people in Iraq (muslms) then do we think they won't care about Palestinians?

It is coming soon, and America will not be able to help, too caught up with Iraq and other stuff..

 

[OnTheWay]

this is simply not true.......the problem is the definition of terms. To us "religious" is anyone who believes in God, and to them "religious" means the Ultra Orthodox Jews....they almost all believe in God the same way we do, but wouldn't consider themselves "Religious" unless they followed the strictest legal code....like the Ulta Orthodox do.

In reality that is information the state of Israel released. The fact of the matter is that the biggest bulk of the world's Jews are 1.Khazars and thus no more the seed of Abraham than I am and 2.Atheistic or secularized into "reform" Judaism.
Yes, I think it is completely reasonable to in order to call one's self "religious" an active belief in a real God is necessary.
What's even more interesting about the situation in Israel is that Shepardic Jews, people that really are related to those spoken of in the OT, are often treated like second class citizens. It's also interesting to note that while Khazars consider themselves to be true Jews, even with no ethnic connection to those that wrote the OT, Ethopian Jews are denied the right to live in Israel because they are black.
The secular state of Israel is an aparthied state just like South Africa was at one time. Sorry, but the secular state of Israel is hardly an ideal of morality or in many cases even basic human rights.

 

[GraceInHim]

In reality that is information the state of Israel released. The fact of the matter is that the biggest bulk of the world's Jews are 1.Khazars and thus no more the seed of Abraham than I am and 2.Atheistic or secularized into "reform" Judaism.
Yes, I think it is completely reasonable to in order to call one's self "religious" an active belief in a real God is necessary.
What's even more interesting about the situation in Israel is that Shepardic Jews, people that really are related to those spoken of in the OT, are often treated like second class citizens. It's also interesting to note that while Khazars consider themselves to be true Jews, even with no ethnic connection to those that wrote the OT, Ethopian Jews are denied the right to live in Israel because they are black.
The secular state of Israel is an aparthied state just like South Africa was at one time. Sorry, but the secular state of Israel is hardly an ideal of morality or in many cases even basic human rights.

There are Jews all over the world, and If I wanted to, I could become one also.. Paul was 1/2 Jew.. The Samaritans were 1/2 Jewish.. does not need to be blood.. but I am sure there are a lot of blood lines..

Did you know before the Romans invaded to rule Jerusalem and built up Ceasera Philistina that a lot of Jews lived all over the place, like in Italy, Greece.. Syria.. they left thier country.. many Jews way before Jesus stayed in Babylon... remember also in the Line of Abraham there was Ismaelites, also Jacob's son Joseph married an Egyptian, Moses married someone from Median (Saudi Arabia today).. the list goes on.. not just Jews.. but there are Jews today... and we do not even know if we truly hold Abrahams bloodline.. who knows today..

 

[OnTheWay]

actually it is impossible to understand the NT w/o the OT and equally impossible to understand the OT w/o understanding the Chosen People, their ways and their world... Don't kill them off to fast or the true interpretation of the whole bible may be lost to us who are merely grafted in...

Without the law nothing is lost and without Christ there is no salvation for men. The NT is clearly the higher of two.
Those that chose to refer to St. Paul's reference of grafting do so in order to avoid the fact that they are intentionally misrepresenting what St. Paul was refering to. After all it was St. Paul that was first and foremost to criticize the Jews for attempting to force Judaism on the gentile Christians and also St. Paul that was so forward in telling the world that there was no longer a difference between Jew and Greek. A branch that is grafted becomes fully a part of the tree it was grafted to and when the graft is finished there is no difference between the grafted branch and the tree. Applying that there is a remaining difference is a statement that Christ failed in His mission to save the world, which He most certainly did not. With Christ the entire world was taken and reconciled to God and thus God's whole creation was reconciled. Just as the whole world was made suitable for prayer mankind became ONE creation of God again.

In Matthew eight we learn of a Roman Centurion that approached Jesus and asked Him to heal his servant. Jesus agreed saying He would go to the Roman's house but the Centurion said that he was not worthy and Jesus need only say the word and it would be done, and so Christ healed his servant and then He tells his discples in verses 10-12:

"When Jesus heard this He was astonished and said to those following Him, "In truth I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found faith as great as this. And I tell you that many will come from east and west and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob at the feast in the kingdom of Heaven. But the children of the kingdom will be thrown out into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth." Matthew 8:10-12

Thus Jesus tells us that those that accept Christ will come and sit with Abraham and be made his heirs (Galatians 3:29), and those that do not will be thrown out in the darkness (hell).

 

[OnTheWay]

There are Jews all over the world, and If I wanted to, I could become one also.. Paul was 1/2 Jew.. The Samaritans were 1/2 Jewish.. does not need to be blood.. but I am sure there are a lot of blood lines..

You might convert to Judaism, however if your mother is not a Jew then as far as Israel is concerned neither are you.

Did you know before the Romans invaded to rule Jerusalem and built up Ceasera Philistina that a lot of Jews lived all over the place, like in Italy, Greece.. Syria.. they left thier country.. many Jews way before Jesus stayed in Babylon... remember also in the Line of Abraham there was Ismaelites, also Jacob's son Joseph married an Egyptian, Moses married someone from Median (Saudi Arabia today).. the list goes on.. not just Jews.. but there are Jews today... and we do not even know if we truly hold Abrahams bloodline.. who knows today..

Who knows today? Are you serious? They've done dozens of DNA studies in Israel, Shepardic Jews and the Arab populations are very close in line of decent. Confirming the Bible's account of the separation of the Arabic peoples and the Jews.
We also know that the Khazars came from south western Asia had have absolutely no ethnic link to Shepardic Jews. It was merely a political decision to avoid conflict with Muslim Asia and Africa and Christian Europe. So we know Shepardic Jews are the only Jews that have any blood tie to Abraham and the prophets. Thus Ethopian Jews have the same claim to the right of return that Khazars do, but as Khazars are running the show they will not allow the black Ethopians the same treatment. Thus blood does matter to the secular state of Israel and if your skin isn't light enough then you aren't welcome despite the generational practice of Judaism.

 

[GraceInHim]

You might convert to Judaism, however if your mother is not a Jew then as far as Israel is concerned neither are you.




Who knows today? Are you serious? They've done dozens of DNA studies in Israel, Shepardic Jews and the Arab populations are very close in line of decent. Confirming the Bible's account of the separation of the Arabic peoples and the Jews.
We also know that the Khazars came from south western Asia had have absolutely no ethnic link to Shepardic Jews. It was merely a political decision to avoid conflict with Muslim Asia and Africa and Christian Europe. So we know Shepardic Jews are the only Jews that have any blood tie to Abraham and the prophets. Thus Ethopian Jews have the same claim to the right of return that Khazars do, but as Khazars are running the show they will not allow the black Ethopians the same treatment. Thus blood does matter to the secular state of Israel and if your skin isn't light enough then you aren't welcome despite the generational practice of Judaism.

rather be a Christian... anyways... let us agree to disagree here.. Jesus will make his final decision when he returns .. and then we can all be one with him, no more discussions of this.

 

[OnTheWay]

rather be a Christian... anyways... let us agree to disagree here.. Jesus will make his final decision when he returns .. and then we can all be one with him, no more discussions of this.

There's nothing to agree to disagree about. Israel is a secular state with a population that is largely atheistic and discriminates based on ethnicity and religion against its citizens. Complete with the denial of the right of return to Ethopians because they are black and organized burnings of the New Testament. I couldn't imagine the outrage if another country had a state sponsered burning of the Talmud. It uses the same terrorist tactics of killing innocent women and children that the Muslims use in their war against Israel. There is nothing godly about the state of Israel. You've made asseration after asseration that I have refuted throughly and you simply haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. So I'll tell you what, why don't you educate yourself on current events and come back and discuss it when you've reached some level of understanding.

 

[GraceInHim]

There's nothing to agree to disagree about. Israel is a secular state with a population that is largely atheistic and discriminates based on ethnicity and religion against its citizens. Complete with the denial of the right of return to Ethopians because they are black and organized burnings of the New Testament. I couldn't imagine the outrage if another country had a state sponsered burning of the Talmud. It uses the same terrorist tactics of killing innocent women and children that the Muslims use in their war against Israel. There is nothing godly about the state of Israel. You've made asseration after asseration that I have refuted throughly and you simply haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. So I'll tell you what, why don't you educate yourself on current events and come back and discuss it when you've reached some level of understanding.

but the rule is on CF, GT, if we cannot agree then agree to disagree.. so please stop and lets agree to disagree.. read the new rules.. thank you

 

[Tishri1]

In reality that is information the state of Israel released. The fact of the matter is that the biggest bulk of the world's Jews are 1.Khazars and thus no more the seed of Abraham than I am and 2.Atheistic or secularized into "reform" Judaism.
Yes, I think it is completely reasonable to in order to call one's self "religious" an active belief in a real God is necessary.
What's even more interesting about the situation in Israel is that Shepardic Jews, people that really are related to those spoken of in the OT, are often treated like second class citizens. It's also interesting to note that while Khazars consider themselves to be true Jews, even with no ethnic connection to those that wrote the OT, Ethopian Jews are denied the right to live in Israel because they are black.
The secular state of Israel is an aparthied state just like South Africa was at one time. Sorry, but the secular state of Israel is hardly an ideal of morality or in many cases even basic human rights.

I was just at a seminar (tuesday)that gave detailed teaching on the Israeli Government, their secular and religious branches