Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[OnTheWay]

I was just at a seminar (tuesday)that gave detailed teaching on the Israeli Government, their secular and religious branches

Whoppe-do, shall we throw you a ticker tape parade?

 

[Tishri1]

Without the law nothing is lost and without Christ there is no salvation for men. The NT is clearly the higher of two.
Those that chose to refer to St. Paul's reference of grafting do so in order to avoid the fact that they are intentionally misrepresenting what St. Paul was refering to. After all it was St. Paul that was first and foremost to criticize the Jews for attempting to force Judaism on the gentile Christians and also St. Paul that was so forward in telling the world that there was no longer a difference between Jew and Greek. A branch that is grafted becomes fully a part of the tree it was grafted to and when the graft is finished there is no difference between the grafted branch and the tree. Applying that there is a remaining difference is a statement that Christ failed in His mission to save the world, which He most certainly did not. With Christ the entire world was taken and reconciled to God and thus God's whole creation was reconciled. Just as the whole world was made suitable for prayer mankind became ONE creation of God again.

In Matthew eight we learn of a Roman Centurion that approached Jesus and asked Him to heal his servant. Jesus agreed saying He would go to the Roman's house but the Centurion said that he was not worthy and Jesus need only say the word and it would be done, and so Christ healed his servant and then He tells his discples in verses 10-12:

"When Jesus heard this He was astonished and said to those following Him, "In truth I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found faith as great as this. And I tell you that many will come from east and west and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob at the feast in the kingdom of Heaven. But the children of the kingdom will be thrown out into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth." Matthew 8:10-12

Thus Jesus tells us that those that accept Christ will come and sit with Abraham and be made his heirs (Galatians 3:29), and those that do not will be thrown out in the darkness (hell).

I agree we are one in Jesus, and he was Jewish not Roman, and so was Paul Jewish and the tree we are grafted into is Jewish nothing Roman about it, The Bible is a Jewish book....We are all made one new man under a Jewish Messiah, if you take the Jewishness out of Christianity then you are doing yourself (and your ministry if you have one) a diservice...

Romans 11:28-29 8 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:18 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Romans 11:15-16 15 For if their rejection be the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

 

[Tishri1]

There's nothing to agree to disagree about. Israel is a secular state with a population that is largely atheistic and discriminates based on ethnicity and religion against its citizens. Complete with the denial of the right of return to Ethopians because they are black and organized burnings of the New Testament. I couldn't imagine the outrage if another country had a state sponsered burning of the Talmud. It uses the same terrorist tactics of killing innocent women and children that the Muslims use in their war against Israel. There is nothing godly about the state of Israel. You've made asseration after asseration that I have refuted throughly and you simply haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. So I'll tell you what, why don't you educate yourself on current events and come back and discuss it when you've reached some level of understanding.

This is outrageous! Please include documentation with your facts ....You are " on the way " to becoming a discredit to Christianity with that kind of slander

 

[OnTheWay]

I agree we are one in Jesus, and he was Jewish not Roman, and so was Paul Jewish and the tree we are grafted into is Jewish nothing Roman about it, The Bible is a Jewish book....We are all made one new man under a Jewish Messiah, if you take the Jewishness out of Christianity then you are doing yourself (and your ministry if you have one) a diservice...

You don't say, Jesus' humanity was given to him by a Jewish mother. I never would have known that. Here I thought he was a commander of the Roman Legions. The tree we are grafted onto in the perfect creation of our God, as there is no longer Jew or Greek. If you set up the Jews as your gods then you are doing your immortal soul a disservice. Christianity and the New Testament aren't Jewish, they are catholic (as in Universal).

 

[OnTheWay]

This is outrageous! Please include documentation with your facts ....You are " on the way " to becoming a discredit to Christianity with that kind of slander

Yeah, Israel is perfect.

 

[Tishri1]

You don't say, Jesus' humanity was given to him by a Jewish mother. I never would have known that. Here I thought he was a commander of the Roman Legions. The tree we are grafted onto in the perfect creation of our God, as there is no longer Jew or Greek. If you set up the Jews as your gods then you are doing your immortal soul a disservice. Christianity and the New Testament aren't Jewish, they are catholic (as in Universal).

don't accuse me of saying Jews are my gods I have only one God and no other Idols...The Jews possess the roots of Christianity as Paul has said, God chose to send Jesus thru the Jews and for a reason, He does everything with purpose, a reason If he wanted the world to have a Roman Jesus He could have just as easily had him born in Rome, and had the bible written by Romans and all the disciples could have been Roman too...but that was not how God chose to reveal Himself to the world....He chose Godly Jewish Men to establish his word, and bring forth his son, his Messiah is Jewish thru and thru

 

[Tishri1]

everyone should look at this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/imagine/imagine_n.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/conen/conflict_2.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/nutoo/nutshell3.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/trial/trial.html

and this

http://www.conceptwizard.com/pipeline_of_hatred.html

then make you final discision

Here are my facts

 

[Gwenyfur]

G-d made a covenant with Israel...that covenant has not changed...nor will it until *all* is fulfilled...

 

[Gwenyfur]

There's nothing to agree to disagree about. Israel is a secular state with a population that is largely atheistic and discriminates based on ethnicity and religion against its citizens. Complete with the denial of the right of return to Ethopians because they are black and organized burnings of the New Testament. I couldn't imagine the outrage if another country had a state sponsered burning of the Talmud. It uses the same terrorist tactics of killing innocent women and children that the Muslims use in their war against Israel. There is nothing godly about the state of Israel. You've made asseration after asseration that I have refuted throughly and you simply haven't a clue as to what you're talking about. So I'll tell you what, why don't you educate yourself on current events and come back and discuss it when you've reached some level of understanding.

That doesn't change the convenant that G-d made with our ancestors...the convenant that has yet to be fulfilled. How then do you justify the Word of G-d that you claim to believe to the drivel you're spouting here.

I find your comments offensive, anti-semitic and bold faced lies.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Who knows today? Are you serious? They've done dozens of DNA studies in Israel, Shepardic Jews and the Arab populations are very close in line of decent. Confirming the Bible's account of the separation of the Arabic peoples and the Jews.
We also know that the Khazars came from south western Asia had have absolutely no ethnic link to Shepardic Jews. It was merely a political decision to avoid conflict with Muslim Asia and Africa and Christian Europe. So we know Shepardic Jews are the only Jews that have any blood tie to Abraham and the prophets. Thus Ethopian Jews have the same claim to the right of return that Khazars do, but as Khazars are running the show they will not allow the black Ethopians the same treatment. Thus blood does matter to the secular state of Israel and if your skin isn't light enough then you aren't welcome despite the generational practice of Judaism.

You left out the Kurdish Jews, from which I am decended, through my mother's line and fully capable of claiming citizenship of Israel. Try getting all the facts There are many bloodlines that are capable of claiming links to Abraham....fully provalbe as well...

 

[Gwenyfur]

Without the law nothing is lost and without Christ there is no salvation for men. The NT is clearly the higher of two.
Those that chose to refer to St. Paul's reference of grafting do so in order to avoid the fact that they are intentionally misrepresenting what St. Paul was refering to. After all it was St. Paul that was first and foremost to criticize the Jews for attempting to force Judaism on the gentile Christians and also St. Paul that was so forward in telling the world that there was no longer a difference between Jew and Greek. A branch that is grafted becomes fully a part of the tree it was grafted to and when the graft is finished there is no difference between the grafted branch and the tree. Applying that there is a remaining difference is a statement that Christ failed in His mission to save the world, which He most certainly did not. With Christ the entire world was taken and reconciled to God and thus God's whole creation was reconciled. Just as the whole world was made suitable for prayer mankind became ONE creation of God again.

In Matthew eight we learn of a Roman Centurion that approached Jesus and asked Him to heal his servant. Jesus agreed saying He would go to the Roman's house but the Centurion said that he was not worthy and Jesus need only say the word and it would be done, and so Christ healed his servant and then He tells his discples in verses 10-12:

"When Jesus heard this He was astonished and said to those following Him, "In truth I tell you, in no one in Israel have I found faith as great as this. And I tell you that many will come from east and west and sit down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob at the feast in the kingdom of Heaven. But the children of the kingdom will be thrown out into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth." Matthew 8:10-12

Thus Jesus tells us that those that accept Christ will come and sit with Abraham and be made his heirs (Galatians 3:29), and those that do not will be thrown out in the darkness (hell).

80% of the New Testament is a quote paraphrase of the Old Testament....
think again dude

 

[GraceInHim]

Hey my other MarineMom ... hello

 

[Gwenyfur]

Hey my other MarineMom ... hello

Heya Grace in Him...my fellow Marine Mom!!!

My brother in law came back from Iraq this weekend, safe sound and in one piece, no wounds nothing! Praise Y'shua for guarding him for us! (he's army, but we love him anyway LOL )

 

[Tishri1]

80% of the New Testament is a quote paraphrase of the Old Testament....
think again dude

amen Gwen! The OT is God's calling card, his business card, and the Torah is his instruction...it's not LAW that is a poor translation of the word, it's instruction for living, and it's ABBA's instruction ment to get us ready to recieve The King when he appears to set up his Kingdom in our midst...

Jesus said he came to bring the Word to it's fullest meaning so it could be planted in our hearts, not to abolish it ...The word "Abolish" doesn't even mean do away with....it means to twist the meaning of , or incorrectly interpret, or diminish it's meaning.....while "Fulfill", means to correctly interpret, straighten out and bring to it's fullest meaning...if you look at the NT you see Jesus doing this everywhere he goes and what do the Authorities do? They try to trap him with the word, to make him out to be a transgressor of the word....they twisted the word to trap him and untimately kill him....but in reality They were "Abolishing" the Torah and Jesus was "Fulfilling" it....After awhile they realised that they couldn't win in any debate they had with him and had to out right lie to the court to get him killed.......But his own words were

Matthew 5:17-19 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished.

and then he adds

19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

He's talking OT here

 

[jgonz]

G-d gave Israel the Land and it's theirs. Period.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

amen Gwen! The OT is God's calling card, his business card, and the Torah is his instruction...it's not LAW that is a poor translation of the word, it's instruction for living, and it's ABBA's instruction ment to get us ready to recieve The King when he appears to set up his Kingdom in our midst...

Jesus said he came to bring the Word to it's fullest meaning so it could be planted in our hearts, not to abolish it ...The word "Abolish" doesn't even mean do away with....it means to twist the meaning of , or incorrectly interpret, or diminish it's meaning.....while "Fulfill", means to correctly interpret, straighten out and bring to it's fullest meaning...if you look at the NT you see Jesus doing this everywhere he goes and what do the Authorities do? They try to trap him with the word, to make him out to be a transgressor of the word....they twisted the word to trap him and untimately kill him....but in reality They were "Abolishing" the Torah and Jesus was "Fulfilling" it....After awhile they realised that they couldn't win in any debate they had with him and had to out right lie to the court to get him killed.......But his own words were and then he adds He's talking OT here

Tishri1,

Yes, and more Excellent-----> "THE OT IS POINTING TO JESUS" so that his words will be IN US so that He can come TO US through another Comforter (since He was heading towards the Cross and soon to die) at which point He would come TO US to led US to The Cross, just like HE DID when HE was in body, just like where HE was walking too. Which point Jesus told us that The Father will send Him, The Promise of His Holy Spirit.

[bible]John 5:39[/bible]



Why do we have to go the cross?
Why does Israel and us who believe have to receive another
Promise first before we get the Land?
Why do we have to go to the cross,..
,...didn't Jesus do it and that's it?
Why can't we just have the land NOW, you might ask.


Because GOD WON'T SHARE HIS GLORY WITH NO FLESH!
BUT HE WILL FULFILL ALL HIS PROMISES TO THOSE WHOM HE TRUSTS.
THOSE WHO LOVE WITH A PURE HEART.
THOSE WHO ARE MEEK.
THOSE WHO HUNGER AND THIRST AFTER GOD'S RIGHT CAUSES.
THOSE WHO ARE PERSECUTED FOR JESUS' NAME SAKE!

BUT UNTIL THEN our flesh-nature must die!

GOD WON'T ALWAYS STRIVE WITH FLESH:
[bible]Genesis 6:3[/bible]
BUT HE WILL THROUGH HIS PROMISE OF HIMSELF
SHOW YOU HOW TO DIE OF IT.....SO THAT HE
CAN GIVE YOU HIS PRECIOUS PROMISES!!!


So, we must walk With HIM:
So we can be HOLY AND LOVE GOD ABOVE ALL AND LOVE
OUR NEIGHBORS AS OURSELVES! But if we are not led, we don't
love ourselves because we will more so see sin in us and feel
hopeless. But God's leading is about HIM MAKING YOU HOLY
FOR THE LAND THAT OF "WHOSOEVER WILL" WILL BE GIVEN. !

But my God,..... really,.....if you only seek God's hand
and not Himself,.....wouldn't I be proving to my own heart
that I have Greed inside?

It is HOLY CHILDREN GOD IS CREATING.
Even if God would say, Heaven and Earth shall pass away
but My Words shall never pass away. Notice the word, "Earth"
I think that will even mean the land of promise. So, if God's
Word will never pass away then what is GOD REALLY MEANING
ABOUT "THE PROMISED LAND?" God is going to make New Heaven
and a New Earth,....so why the anger, why the fightings among you?

Is it not the war that's really inside of you?

IT TAKES "ALL OF GOD" TO MAKE US WELL to be called HIS SON'S AND DAUGHTERS!
HE WHO IS HOLY, WILL DO, AND IS DOING HOLY THINGS RIGHT NOW!!!
{In short.)

 

[Jesus Is Real]

G-d gave Israel the Land and it's theirs. Period.

jgonz,

Yes and He who is Holy will fulfill His Promises.

But do you know why the Land is not 'at peace' with all of it's inhabitants?
And what DOES the Holy Spirit's Power, in receiving HIM, have to do with
The Restoration of Israel, if any?

ARE WE GOING TO BE SO ZEALOUS OVER GOD'S PROMISES
RATHER THAN HIMSELF TO BE IN US?

To understand all this, we must look at WHY Jesus CAME.
If we are so up with the Land that a Holy God has promised,
which I use the word "up with" is because of anger and impatience,
then we best be INTO WHAT GOD IS ALL ABOUT!!!
Hey my flesh too rises up, at times, but
THE CROSS OF CHRIST IS answer!
AND I FOR ONE, I'M STICKING HERE--> WITH HIM.
FOR GOD CAN NOT DENY HIMSELF!

So, if God is so Holy to have promised anything then we must look
at WHY IS GOD HOLY to have made such a promise!
Well,.....because GOD IS GOOD,....and those who will follow HIM
must FIRST BE as HE IS. But if we are in even the slightest strife
over this subject then GOD CAN'T give His Promises to us, let alone
HIS VERYSELF---HIS HOLY SPIRIT. Jesus told us that we are to receive
Power from Him FIRST,.....then when The Father's Ready He will Do, and
at that, GIVE THE LAND TO THOSE WHO ARE HOLY AND MEEK. Actually,
Jesus said that THE MEEK WILL INHERIT THE EARTH----ALL THE EARTH.
WHY?......Because He's giving it to HIS CHILDREN WHO ARE JUST LIKE HIM.

 

[Scholar in training]

Jesus said he came to bring the Word to it's fullest meaning so it could be planted in our hearts, not to abolish it ...The word "Abolish" doesn't even mean do away with....it means to twist the meaning of , or incorrectly interpret, or diminish it's meaning.....while "Fulfill", means to correctly interpret, straighten out and bring to it's fullest meaning...

And what does it mean for Jesus to have "fulfilled" the Law? Paul says:

Galatians 3:20-26 (NASB)
Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

That doesn't change the convenant that G-d made with our ancestors...the convenant that has yet to be fulfilled.

The covenant was fulfilled in the person of Christ. The promise to Abraham was monergistic; God would follow through on his agreement no matter what (symbolized by his passing between the animal halves, essentially meaning that if he didn't grant the promise, he would end up like the animals!). But the Law was synergistic, and depended on the loyalty of the Israelites to the living God. The "covenant" in view here cannot be the Law, but the promise in Abraham's seed. The general resurrection and the judgment are still unfulfilled, but the covenant is not.

In support of my view, I offer the following evidence that the Law was never intended to be permanent: some aspects of the Law are oriented towards the culture of the Israelites, and would not be applicable today (e.g. a law prohibiting shaving one's beard, which one only did if one was involved in the occult). We agree that some of the laws are universal and absolute. But it would not make sense to apply the whole of this Law to all of creation. Indeed, even this Jewish article agrees and affirms that some laws were intended solely for the Israelites and not for all people.

I find your comments offensive, anti-semitic and bold faced lies.

OnTheWay's comments are none of these, and I might remind you what the Law says about false witnessing. He has not said, for instance, that he "supports divestment from Israel". If someone is anti-Semitic, you can tell pretty quick.

 

[Jesus Is Real]

G-d gave Israel the Land and it's theirs. Period.

So Yes, "A Holy God Did."

But not for us to ~fight about it.~

Do you know what we sound like when we say, "It's mine, mine, mine?"

LOL,.....doesn't it kind of take you back to your toddler years and our
mothers would correct us?

Let me tell you, I've falling into these traps many a times!
God has His Promises this is sure, but FIRST THINGS FIRST!
If we can't wait as Holy people unto God and unto others
then it's worldly, fleshly. When we want to fight and have rage
in us (even a little bit of rage) it's still against the G-d we say
we SERVE.

[bible]Acts 1:6-8[/bible]

We as a Body of Christ seem still to so come short of THESE
LAST INSTRUCTIONS OF JESUS CHRIST, WHO HAD ALREADY, as you
to know, RISEN AT THE TIME! HE WAS SPEAKING TO THEM ONCE HE HAD
CONQUERED DEATH, HELL AND THE GRAVE!

 

[linssue55]

What do your Christian belives sway towards?

After the Trial and Tribulation, they will have ALL their land and then some. It is the way it is supposed to be now. "Like the verse say's "Peace, peace, where there is no peace".

Robison, I have never cared for (agape love). He teaches nothing as far as bible doctrine, he just raises money. A Pastor is suppose to study, and teach....study, and teach......study, and teach. Let God worry about the other, for God blesses the church that teaches his congregation bible doctrine, ALL of the time. Robison is just a broadcaster, like a newscaster, nothing more.