Israel's future and Pat: Your view

[KEPLER]

So are you saying God is finished with the Jews?

He is finished with the political nation of Israel, but not with individual Jews.

GOD never wanted the Jews to have a King, but they demanded one, so He gave them one (SAUL). But He told them that one day HE would be their King, and that HAS BEEN FULFILLED in Jesus.

There was NEVER: NOT ONCE: a promise for an earthly Kingdom. That was NEVER the plan. It was always a SPIRITUAL kingdom that was promised.

He now deals with Jews just like everyone else: they come to Him through Jesus. They are not excluded. They were the original members of the Covenant, and God has NOT turned His back on them. He is now making His calling sure through the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.

K

 

[OnTheWay]

If what you say above is true, How do you explain these four New Testament verses. ?

Romans 15:8

"For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God , to confirm the promises made to the fathers."

Galatians 3:14

"in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

Galatians 3:29

"And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise."

Hebrews 13:20

"Now the God of Peace who brought up from the dead the Great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus, our Lord."

The following scriptures refer to the Old Covenant as EVERLASTING

Gen. 9;16, 17:13, 17:19
Lev. 24:8
2 Sam. 23:5
1 Chron. 16:17
Psalm 105:10
Isaiah 55:3, 61:8
Jeremiah 32:40
Ezekiel 16:60, 37:26

I think you will have a difficult time proving the New Testament is new in regard to time, that is never existed before.

Also you will have a difficult time proving that the Old Testament no longer exists, because God says it is everlasting.

Study carefully Jeremiah 31: 35, 36, 37

The Church is not the New Israel , Romans 11 says we are grafted in to the Olive tree, a wild olive branch, grafted into the domestic olive tree, meaning the original congregation of God.

franky

Colossians 3:11-12

And in that image there is no room for distinction between Greek and Jew, between the circumcised and the uncircumcised, or between the barbarian and Scythian, slave and free. There is only Christ: He is everything and He is in everything. As the chose of God, then, the holy people whom he loves, you are to be clothed in heartfelt compassion, in generosity, and humility, gentleness, and patience.

Galatians 3:28-29

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female-for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And simply by being Christ's you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.


1 Peter 2:9
But you are a Chosen race, a kingdom of priests, a holy nation, a people to a personal possession to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

All men are the creation of God, and in Christ creation is redeemed and restored. Though it is not fully restored yet as the world has not be remade. As we see in Christ all are made heirs to Abraham. The old covenant, a covenant that is exclusive, is made over into the new covenant that is open to all. As St. Paul tells us no longer is there Jew or Greek. We are one creation of God again reconciled by Jesus Christ through whom their is salvation and without whom there is no salvation. God fulfilled His promise to Israel and sent a savior. In doing so He redeemed His entire creation as He always intended to do. Thus anyone that accepts Christ is Israel and anyone that rejects Christ has no salvation. The covenant is everlasting, the old exclusive covenant is not.
Show me a single New Testament Scripture that would state there is any salvation in the law.

 

[GraceInHim]

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem...behold, your house is left unto you desolate... for I say unto you, Ye shall not see Me henceforth, till Ye shall say, Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord. - Matt.23:37-39

 

[GraceInHim]

He is finished with the political nation of Israel, but not with individual Jews.

GOD never wanted the Jews to have a King, but they demanded one, so He gave them one (SAUL). But He told them that one day HE would be their King, and that HAS BEEN FULFILLED in Jesus.

There was NEVER: NOT ONCE: a promise for an earthly Kingdom. That was NEVER the plan. It was always a SPIRITUAL kingdom that was promised.

He now deals with Jews just like everyone else: they come to Him through Jesus. They are not excluded. They were the original members of the Covenant, and God has NOT turned His back on them. He is now making His calling sure through the suffering, death and resurrection of Jesus.

K

Read the Prophets.. suggestion..

 

[KEPLER]

Read the Prophets.. suggestion..

Better suggestion: read the New Testament. The writer to the Hebrews applies the propehcy of Jeremiah to the NT believers.

Paul says the Abrahamic Covenant is fulfilled in NT believers (both JEW and GENTILE).

You can't argue with Scripture.

 

[GraceInHim]

Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant. Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it. - Is. 14:29-32

Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness. - Is. 1:27

How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion. Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem. The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. - Is. 52:7-10

In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. Micah 4:6-7 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more. In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack... At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD. Zeph. 3:14-16,20

The Last to drive them out was the Romans... Ya ok .. God gave it to the Romans.. yup and we all live in peace.. Gentiles are grafted into the root of Abraham..

 

[GraceInHim]

Better suggestion: read the New Testament. The writer to the Hebrews applies the propehcy of Jeremiah to the NT believers.

Paul says the Abrahamic Covenant is fulfilled in NT believers (both JEW and GENTILE).

You can't argue with Scripture.

but if OT is no good, then why do we use it to show the prophets about Jesus being born of a virgin... and John and Jesus spoke of the Prophets.. "Make way for the Lord..."?????

That is right Jews will be in last... we are already in.. grafted.. NT

 

[KEPLER]

but if OT is no good, then why do we use it to show the prophets about Jesus being born of a virgin... and John and Jesus spoke of the Prophets.. "Make way for the Lord..."?????

That is right Jews will be in last... we are already in.. grafted.. NT

NEVER SAID the OT isn't any good. BUt it is IMPOSSIBLE to properly understand the OT without the NT to interpret it for us.

OT does NOT stand by itself. EVER.

NT interprets OT. ALWAYS.

K

 

[GraceInHim]

NEVER SAID the OT isn't any good. BUt it is IMPOSSIBLE to properly understand the OT without the NT to interpret it for us.

OT does NOT stand by itself. EVER.

NT interprets OT. ALWAYS.

K

here is NT.. who was Peter speaking to?

1 Peter 2:1-10. Verses 9 and 10 read, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."

 

[KEPLER]

here is NT.. who was Peter speaking to?

1 Peter 2:1-10. Verses 9 and 10 read, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy."

To NT believers.

 

[GraceInHim]

To NT believers.

but the NT was not written until after this?? There were Jewish believers also at the time.. the NT writers were Jewish

 

[GraceInHim]

The land belongs to the Jewish.. there were never Palestines living there, the land was a desolate land.. the Jews have made this land what it has become today.. and to say it should go to Palestinians is to say let it go to Islam..

the Roman Emporer named Juhdea to Palestine to mock the Jews.. also The Emporer before named his area Cesera Philistina to mock the Jews because Philistines were sworn enemies of the Jews since way back in King Davids time... do a google search on the history of the Holy Land and you will be shocked...

There will never be peace because Islam wants the Holy Land sooo bad.. also if you do a google search on the Dome of the Rock.. you will shocked what it has written around it inside.. "God has no son" .. ya ok let the Islamics have it..

 

[franky67]

Colossians 3:11-12

And in that image there is no room for distinction between Greek and Jew, between the circumcised and the uncircumcised, or between the barbarian and Scythian, slave and free. There is only Christ: He is everything and He is in everything. As the chose of God, then, the holy people whom he loves, you are to be clothed in heartfelt compassion, in generosity, and humility, gentleness, and patience.

Galatians 3:28-29

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female-for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And simply by being Christ's you are that progeny of Abraham, the heirs named in the promise.


1 Peter 2:9
But you are a Chosen race, a kingdom of priests, a holy nation, a people to a personal possession to sing the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

All men are the creation of God, and in Christ creation is redeemed and restored. Though it is not fully restored yet as the world has not be remade. As we see in Christ all are made heirs to Abraham. The old covenant, a covenant that is exclusive, is made over into the new covenant that is open to all. As St. Paul tells us no longer is there Jew or Greek. We are one creation of God again reconciled by Jesus Christ through whom their is salvation and without whom there is no salvation. God fulfilled His promise to Israel and sent a savior. In doing so He redeemed His entire creation as He always intended to do. Thus anyone that accepts Christ is Israel and anyone that rejects Christ has no salvation. The covenant is everlasting, the old exclusive covenant is not.
Show me a single New Testament Scripture that would state there is any salvation in the law.

Show me a single New Testament Scripture that would state there is any salvation in the law. Your quote

No there is none, Christ redeemed from the curse of not fulfilling the law, but the blessings accorded to Abraham's seed are ours.

How do you explain the grafted in branch ?

It's the same Covenant, except Christ became the final sacrifice for sin. That's why it's a better covenant than the first one, God made it with Christ, and all in Christ are blessed by the blessings in that original Covenant. All, Jews and gentiles, must come to God through Christ.

franky

 

[OnTheWay]

but the NT was not written until after this?? There were Jewish believers also at the time.. the NT writers were Jewish

That's simply not true, the authors of the NT were Christians. Whether they were ethnically Jewish or not makes no difference. Anyone that accepts Christ is first a Christian and then whatever they may be in terms of ethnicity or nationality.

 

[GraceInHim]

the Parable of the Good Samaritan.. Samaritans were 1/2 Jewish

The Priest and the Levite walk by and do nothing

sometimes when you get a chance read this parable in NT.. The Good Samaritan uses oil and wine for the wound... never ever is this used in all the history of the Bible, together for a wound??? Oil = OT Wine = NT?


The Samaritan helps the man who is wounded and gives 2 denari's to the innkeeper to take care of the wounded man.. The Good Samaritan says he will come back, but we never hear the rest of the story of him coming back.. 1 denari was as 1 day's pay.. Peter says 1 day is like a thousand years.. guess who the Good Samaritan is?

remember he is 1/2 Jewish

 

[GraceInHim]

That's simply not true, the authors of the NT were Christians. Whether they were ethnically Jewish or not makes no difference. Anyone that accepts Christ is first a Christian and then whatever they may be in terms of ethnicity or nationality.

what is not true, that those who were Jesus' disciples were not Jewish or there were no Jewish followers? ok.. I know Christians are with God.. but there will be Jews.. we need to wait for their blindness to go away, but not judge them.. let Jesus do this.

 

[OnTheWay]

The land belongs to the Jewish.. there were never Palestines living there, the land was a desolate land.. the Jews have made this land what it has become today.. and to say it should go to Palestinians is to say let it go to Islam..

Judaism equals NO promise of salvation and Islam equals no promise of salvation. To be very frank, and I've been to Israel a few times, there isn't anything there. Israel is a welfare state, and without foreign aid money (especially for the US) there is no way it could support itself. A little manufactoring and some tourism don't make a viable economy. The kibbutz did not make the "desert bloom." It's more like a handful of twigs growing in the sand.
Neither Judaism nor Islam has historically been friendly to Christianity. The modern state of Israel has held organized burnings of the New Testament. So no, I don't really see any point in spending vast amounts of money to support the state of Israel. A rather small number of the world's Jews live there in the first place. More leave than move in every year, so why should so many people and so many resources go into something that the Jews don't even want to be begin with?

 

[OnTheWay]

Show me a single New Testament Scripture that would state there is any salvation in the law. Your quote

No there is none, Christ redeemed from the curse of not fulfilling the law, but the blessings accorded to Abraham's seed are ours.

How do you explain the grafted in branch ?

It's the same Covenant, except Christ became the final sacrifice for sin. That's why it's a better covenant than the first one, God made it with Christ, and all in Christ are blessed by the blessings in that original Covenant. All, Jews and gentiles, must come to God through Christ.

franky

Like St. Paul says, there is no longer Jew nor Greek.

 

[OnTheWay]

what is not true, that those who were Jesus' disciples were not Jewish or there were no Jewish followers? ok.. I know Christians are with God.. but there will be Jews.. we need to wait for their blindness to go away, but not judge them.. let Jesus do this.

It's called reading a post, not a single line. You see I said that those individuals that accepted Christ became Christians. While they were ethnically Jewish, Greek, Roman, or whatever they became first Chrisians.
What you are attempting to do is paint Christianity and Judaism as being two equal religions. This is not true, there is savlation of all man in Christianity and there is no savlation in Judaism. I don't judge anyone, however I am not going to pretend that the modern state of Israel (which maintains one of the biggest concentrations of atheists in the world) has anything to do with God.

 

[GraceInHim]

Judaism equals NO promise of salvation and Islam equals no promise of salvation. To be very frank, and I've been to Israel a few times, there isn't anything there. Israel is a welfare state, and without foreign aid money (especially for the US) there is no way it could support itself. A little manufactoring and some tourism don't make a viable economy. The kibbutz did not make the "desert bloom." It's more like a handful of twigs growing in the sand.
Neither Judaism nor Islam has historically been friendly to Christianity. The modern state of Israel has held organized burnings of the New Testament. So no, I don't really see any point in spending vast amounts of money to support the state of Israel. A rather small number of the world's Jews live there in the first place. More leave than move in every year, so why should so many people and so many resources go into something that the Jews don't even want to be begin with?

please back up this story of Israel being a welfare state from the US.. also why do Palestianians work in Israel.. yes they work in Israel.... seems Israel does not need welfare since they have workers who work for the Country,,