Israel-Hamas Thread II

[rjs330]

Their fault in the first place. Who, in their right mind, would think having terrorists run your govt is going to end well?

Well they thought so. No not everyone vot d for them. But enough did. Just like Americans were blamed for Trump's decisions even though not every American voted for him.

 

[rjs330]

Let’s make guesses about how the postbellum situation will go, I’ll start.

1. Israel is victorious! Installs an “approved” new Civil Authority over the Gaza region
2. The Gazans are leery about this new organization which begins to have troubles right off of the bat with the people that it is supposed to govern
3. Israel dumps tons of money into Gaza to make life better for Gazans
4. Israeli hardliners balk at the sums being spent on their [former] enemies
5. Such spending is “suspended” (or otherwise cut dramatically)
6. The new civil authority begins to crack down on dissidents who had been promised money to rebuild their land but the blockade of the past continues and funds from Israel have fallen
7. A new “Hamas” emerges from Gaza

This could take from 3-10 years.

Yeah I don't know if that would happen. But we do know that the Arabs and much of the world will continue to hate Israel and will eventually attack them. I honestly think that no matter what Israel does it won't be good enough.

 

[rjs330]

I believe return to N Gaza of anyone will not be allowed during the pause. Also, given that Hamas will be destroyed (according to Netanyahu) good PR can only provide a nice headstone.

We can only hope. But I think they are more likely considering the PR in hopes they can draw this out long enough that the world puts so much pressure on Israel that she has to stop and Hamas survives to fight another day.

 

[rjs330]

According to a lot of people on this forum it's to bomb the place back to the Stone Age and don't consider the consequences. A cease fire would be a good idea.

Oh look. They're just about to start one.

Now, apart from ideas about what should be done from this point onwards which have already been presented, do you have any solutions? Or do you just want to carry on exactly as has been done up to now?

I don't believe a single person here stated that was a good plan. Even Israel is trying not to do that. Or didn't you know that?

Israel could have turned the place glass if they wanted to. They don't. They are trying to.limit casualties on civilians.

As far a cease fire goes, it means the liberation of all the hostages then let's do it. Whether or not it ends up being a good idea over all, remains to be seen.

And as I've said before not a single Gazan needs to perish from this day forward. All that has to happen would be for Hamas to surrender.

What needs to happen this day forward should the fighting begin again, Israel should continue to do their best to limit civilian casualties which is hard to do if civilians are there or impossible to do if Hamas is fighting from civilian positions.

I sure would like to know what they are doing with the tunnel systems. I'm sure that's too secret. I think getting rid of them is one of the most important parts of this war and I'm sure they think so too. If Hamas can't run around in their rat holes they have fewer places to hide.

One can't ask an army to do the impossible.

 

[rjs330]

I mentioned earlier in the thread how Hamas gained control of Gaza.



Last month in another thread, I gave my opinion on why Hamas has been allowed to stay in power. It can be found here. Since that thread has been closed and I can't quote it, I will post it again.


"Based on my personal experience and observations while working in communities where terrorists have established themselves and their terrorist activities go unchallenged by the people living in these communities, there are a couple of reasons I can think of as to why Palestinians wouldn't want to get involved in, or cooperate with authorities in exposing Hamas terrorists. For one, Palestinians in Gaza live in an environment where turning against Hamas could pose significant risks to their lives, livelihoods, and families. They allow Hamas to operate in Gaza mostly because they are afraid that if they refuse, they will be its next victims. Another reason is that most Palestinians in Gaza are too busy struggling to survive from day to day to concern themselves with Hamas. They have enough problems already.

I can guarantee you that if Hamas is ever eliminated in Gaza, the Palestinians will be celebrating in the streets."



Below is an excellent US Today article that does an great job in explaining why so many Palestinians voted for Hamas, their feelings towards both Hamas and Israel, and why they haven't been able to remove them from power. It also confirms the reasons I gave earlier as to why Gazans have allowed Hamas to remain in power and their communities. I suggest those blaming Gazans for Hamas' actions click on the link and read the entire article.


Long before Hamas's murderous rampage in Israel on Oct. 7, the group made a name for itself with its ruthless takeover of Gaza in 2007.

Its calling card? Killing its political rivals execution style in the streets, in hospital shootouts, and by throwing them off the rooftops of high-rise buildings. Since then, arbitrary detention, torture and enforced disappearances has been a hallmark of the regime.

Yet now, some Palestinians are "self-silencing" how they really view Hamas − and what they reveal about living under the U.S. and European Union-designated terror group in the Gaza Strip.

68% − believed that they had no way to safely participate in peaceful protests against Hamas' rule.

"Basically (most Gazans) just want to be able to do their job and have enough money to spend time with their family,"

"Nobody in Gaza is thinking about Hamas. They are busy surviving," this Palestinian said.

"The most important thing now is not Hamas. It's that Israel stops killing us," said another.

Before the war, Israeli media published stories of Gazans who had fled the enclave because of threats they faced from Hamas for participating in protests, because they didn't support its approach to Israel or for challenging the way it spent financing from Qatar on rockets and tunnels rather than schools or other infrastructure.

"After Oct. 7 we all in Gaza have been (accused of being) Hamas supporters. In fact, I am not. And I will never be," said Tareq Hajjaj, a Gazan journalist, in rare public comments about Hamas.

Hajjaj said he knows many Gazans with strong feelings about Hamas who won't speak publicly about it.

'Self-silencing': For Palestinians, talking about Hamas comes with hazards

Israel has killed thousands of Palestinians in Gaza since it began its operation to root out Hamas after its attacks on Oct. 7. This is making it hard for Palestinians to talk about Hamas even if they don't support it.

www.usatoday.com

Well now is as good a time as any. Now they know the price of failure to get rid of a terrorist governing body they elected. Every single Gazan who doesn't support Hamas should be going to the nearest Israeli official and telling them where all the Hamas holes are. Telling them they will help get rid of them once and for all.

 

[Carl Emerson]

'Forced deprograming Hamas won't work, so carry on'.

It did with Hitler Youth after WW2.

 

[Carl Emerson]

le accurate death toll? Still waiting on that.

Not Hamas - later on... an independent review...

How ever what is a civilian will be a matter of interpretation.

 

[truthpls]

And what? Israel is the only country that want hamas gone? Even some Arab countries want them gone. (read: eliminated)

No one is talking about Hamas. What we do not want is the people blown up. I cannot comprehend how a Christian could support the terrorism of Israel. Yet I see they still do. Israel is not made up of believers. They have no right to any good promise of God until they get saved. The WW2 era cruelty and attack and mass murder and hatred of a particular people, and incinerating women and children in the ovens of indiscriminate bombing is not something we would expect from those once on the receiving end.

 

[Bradskii]

Not Hamas - later on... an independent review...

How ever what is a civilian will be a matter of interpretation.

So the answer to 'How many civilian deaths are you prepared to accept' is 'I'll tell you when we get the final toll.'

And as children are civilians, then an answer along the lines of 'Gee, that was too many. They should have stopped at 4,000' might be a little late to consider, don't you think?

 

[Bradskii]

It did with Hitler Youth after WW2.

That's not a response that deserves a sensible reply.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No one is talking about Hamas. What we do not want is the people blown up. I cannot comprehend how a Christian could support the terrorism of Israel. Yet I see they still do. Israel is not made up of believers. They have no right to any good promise of God until they get saved. The WW2 era cruelty and attack and mass murder and hatred of a particular people, and incinerating women and children in the ovens of indiscriminate bombing is not something we would expect from those once on the receiving end.

That is why they are as careful as they can be in the face of an enemy who have no regard for human life.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That's not a response that deserves a sensible reply.

Relax I don't expect a sensible reply...

Major Ian Thomas rehabilitated Hitler Youth at the Capernwray Bible College after WW2.

 

[civilwarbuff]

No one is talking about Hamas.

What are you talking about. This whole thread is about hamas. Try to pay attention.

What we do not want is the people blown up. I cannot comprehend how a Christian could support the terrorism of Israel. Yet I see they still do.

This is war. Soldiers die, civilians die......that's just how it is. Time to let go of your unicorns and ice cream mountains and grow up.

Israel is not made up of believers. They have no right to any good promise of God until they get saved.

They have the right to every promise made them by God listed in the OT. Is this what they teach you in your church?......replacement theology?

The WW2 era cruelty and attack and mass murder and hatred of a particular people, and incinerating women and children in the ovens of indiscriminate bombing is not something we would expect from those once on the receiving end.

It is not mass murder; it is war. Time to grow up.

 

[truthpls]

That is why they are as careful as they can be in the face of an enemy who have no regard for human life.

You seem to be claiming that the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians in hospitals, apartments, roads etc is an great effort at 'being careful'. Not funny

 

[truthpls]

What are you talking about. This whole thread is about hamas. Try to pay attention.

Israel as well if you missed it. Hamas cannot be used as the excuse for terrorism.

This is war. Soldiers die, civilians die......that's just how it is. Time to let go of your unicorns and ice cream mountains and grow up.

No this is mass slaughter of children and civilians and collective punishment that rivals any evil in human history

They have the right to every promise made them by God listed in the OT.

Zero. None whatsoever. The only thing they fulfill is prophesy. They do not believe in Jesus, the God of the Old Testament. Nor does the bible say God will protect or restore them until after they get saved. God has nothing to do with it.

Is this what they teach you in your church?......replacement theology?

No that is nonsense. They will be restored. They sure are not now though!

It is not mass murder; it is war. Time to grow up.

It is a lot worse than mass murder. It is also terrorizing depriving and displacing a population.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You seem to be claiming that the indiscriminate slaughter of civilians in hospitals, apartments, roads etc is an great effort at 'being careful'. Not funny

Sounds like you have swallowed the Hamas rhetoric whole...

 

[wing2000]

Suggest you all take a time out. Strong words and labels in a forum will save no one.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Suggest you all take a time out. Strong words and labels in a forum will save no one.

God saves folk.

Strong words were very much part of Jesus ministry.

Israel is far from perfect but they are not stupid.

 

[Robban]

God saves folk.

Strong words were very much part of Jesus ministry.

Israel is far from perfect but they are not stupid.

The world stands on three things;
Torah,
Service of God,
deeds of kindness.
Ethics of the Fathers 1:2.

Torah is for the nations of the world a pain in the....wherever one gets a pain.
Many attempts have been made to dilute it, extinguish it, all have failed.
The nation Israel has been spread all over the world.

Like having a pile of unwanted earth (that someone has dumped there) in the garden that you want to get rid of,

So you go to a neighbor and dump it there.

The neighbor is not too happy about it though.

What will the Gardener say when He comes to His garden?

Edit,, Rather, what will the Owner of the garden say?

 

[rjs330]

No one is talking about Hamas. What we do not want is the people blown up. I cannot comprehend how a Christian could support the terrorism of Israel. Yet I see they still do. Israel is not made up of believers. They have no right to any good promise of God until they get saved. The WW2 era cruelty and attack and mass murder and hatred of a particular people, and incinerating women and children in the ovens of indiscriminate bombing is not something we would expect from those once on the receiving end.

We wish you were talking about Hamas. They are the real terrorists. Israel is trying to save people. Did you happen to notice they didn't just blow up the hospital? There is video of Hamas bringing in hostages into the hospital and hospital staff assisting them. We have video of people in the hospital talking about how there was Hamas all over the place in the hospital. Yet Israel didn't just blow it up.

How a Christian can make false claims against people is quite astounding. It's almost like you are using their lack of faith as a reason to hate on them. Are you now accusing Israel of burning babies in ovens?