Israel-Hamas Thread II

[essentialsaltes]

It's like Nazism and Japanese nationalism. Yes the ideas are still out there, yes there will be new followers, but their armies were defeated

And then what happened? After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?

Did we raze their farmlands and salt the earth? Destroy their hospitals?

It's too much to hope that Israel will create a 'Marshall Plan' for Gaza, but maybe we can hope for a 'Douglas MacArthur' to occupy and rebuild the region before returning it back to its people in functioning order.

These are the kinds of future plans that provide a political solution to the situation after the fighting stops. So far, Netanyahu has nothing.

 

[Valletta]

And then what happened? After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?

Did we raze their farmlands and salt the earth? Destroy their hospitals?

It's too much to hope that Israel will create a 'Marshall Plan' for Gaza, but maybe we can hope for a 'Douglas MacArthur' to occupy and rebuild the region before returning it back to its people in functioning order.

These are the kinds of future plans that provide a political solution to the situation after the fighting stops. So far, Netanyahu has nothing.

Netanyahu is in the middle of a war, with Iran on the edge of delivering an atomic bomb. With Germany the country was split into zones and the Russians held their zone for decades. The Japanese were more fanatical and most in the U.S. expected Japan would not be taken until 1947. Remember the U.S. had begun to fire bomb their country, killing 100,000 people in Tokyo in one raid. The combination of devastating their large cities and the admission that their emperor was not a deity was essential toward Japan joining the world community. A lot is going to depend on the people of Gaza. If they can renounce their twisting of their religion and Hamas it will go better for them.

 

[Philip_B]

A lot is going to depend on the people of Gaza. If they can renounce their twisting of their religion and Hamas it will go better for them.

And a lot will depend on how much in the way of armament and munitions the USA will continue to supply to Israel.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Netanyahu is in the middle of a war .... A lot is going to depend on the people of Gaza. If they can renounce their twisting of their religion and Hamas it will go better for them.

Netanyahu is not offering the people of Gaza any deal, any incentive, any way out, any hint of what the future status of Gaza will be.

Assuming they are all wicked murderous terrorists, what is Netanyahu offering them to renounce that? So far, nothing.

 

[Valletta]

Netanyahu is not offering the people of Gaza any deal, any incentive, any way out, any hint of what the future status of Gaza will be.

Assuming they are all wicked murderous terrorists, what is Netanyahu offering them to renounce that? So far, nothing.

As I said, he is in the middle of fighting a war, but here's the latest:

"Senior aides to the Israeli leader have told the White House that Netanyahu’s address to a joint session of Congress will contain elements that back United States President Joe Biden’s grand vision for the Middle East, Channel 13 news reported.
That plan includes a ceasefire-for-hostages deal to end the fighting in Gaza, a diplomatic solution for the Israel-Hezbollah conflict in Lebanon, a pathway toward a Palestinian state, and diplomatic ties between Riyadh and Jerusalem."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-set-to-offer-new-stance-on-palestinian-state-in-speech-to-congress/

 

[DaisyDay]

And then what happened? After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?

Did we raze their farmlands and salt the earth? Destroy their hospitals?

It's too much to hope that Israel will create a 'Marshall Plan' for Gaza, but maybe we can hope for a 'Douglas MacArthur' to occupy and rebuild the region before returning it back to its people in functioning order.

These are the kinds of future plans that provide a political solution to the situation after the fighting stops. So far, Netanyahu has nothing.

Remember the lesson learned after WW1 and applied after WW2. Impoverishing a people does not lead to peace long term.

 

[Valletta]

Remember the lesson learned after WW1 and applied after WW2. Impoverishing a people does not lead to peace long term.

Germany and Japan have done pretty well.

 

[DaisyDay]

Germany and Japan have done pretty well.

Yes, because we learned the lesson that excessive punishment of a population after WWI led to WWII.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israeli military straps injured Palestinian man to hood of jeep​

Video shows the man lying across the front of the Israeli jeep as it drove through a neighborhood of Jenin. The man appeared slumped on the hood of the vehicle as it drove past Palestinian Red Crescent (PRCS) ambulances.

A Palestinian was shot, beaten and tied to an Israeli army jeep. The army says he posed no threat​

“Civilians should never be used as human shields. The IDF should swiftly investigate what happened and hold people accountable,” [US State Department spokesman Matthew Miller] said, referring to the Israeli military.

 

[Valletta]

"It is a great privilege to be by my mother’s side after eight months of uncertainty. It's a great privilege to see my parents surrounded by so many good people. I want to thank the security forces, our army, the soldiers, reservists, special forces and everyone who took part in the rescue operation and risked their lives so that I could return home," she said.

Noa Argamani thanks IDF, urges return of Hamas hostages in Gaza | The Jerusalem Post

"I mourn with the family of Arnon Zamora, who fell during the rescue operation of myself and three other hostages. My heart is with his family," she says.

www.jpost.com

 

[ralliann]

And then what happened? After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?

Did we raze their farmlands and salt the earth? Destroy their hospitals?

Well if Nazis had their military operating from schools and hospitals they certainly would have. Nazi's were bad, but these sacrifice their own for military ops.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Well if Nazis had their military operating from schools and hospitals

First off, Israel said there was a command center under al Shifa hospital in Gaza, but they have not provided any credible evidence of such a thing. Nevertheless, the hospital is now inoperable.

Second off, the situation we're talking about is after the war. Once Netanyahu succeeds and Hamas is defeated and Gaza is pacified. What is the plan "After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?"

The US helped rebuild Germany and Japan. What does Israel plan for a future Gaza?

 

[ralliann]

First off, Israel said there was a command center under al Shifa hospital in Gaza, but they have not provided any credible evidence of such a thing.

Yes they did, with video..

Nevertheless, the hospital is now inoperable.

Of their own governments (Hamas) doing. It is their way of warfare. And will continue to be their way as long as others make it good strategy.... It is guaranteed.

Second off, the situation we're talking about is after the war. Once Netanyahu succeeds and Hamas is defeated and Gaza is pacified. What is the plan "After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?"

Who knows. it is not over with. Again Hamas won't deal.

The US helped rebuild Germany and Japan. What does Israel plan for a future Gaza?

It depends on what happens....Hamas is still at war and holding hostages. Not just Israelis but Americans as well.

 

[Valletta]

First off, Israel said there was a command center under al Shifa hospital in Gaza, but they have not provided any credible evidence of such a thing. Nevertheless, the hospital is now inoperable.

Second off, the situation we're talking about is after the war. Once Netanyahu succeeds and Hamas is defeated and Gaza is pacified. What is the plan "After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?"

The US helped rebuild Germany and Japan. What does Israel plan for a future Gaza?

This, of course, depends on the people of Gaza. A big difference is that Gaza is on the border of Israel. With Germany they banned the Nazi party and really anything Nazi. They could not even show films of the Nazis for many years, although this has now changed. And the Soviets occupied a section of Germany for decades. With Japan the emperor had to admit he was not a deity and Japan was not allowed to have an army. Religious wise it would be difficult to convince them their twisted view of Islam is wrong, and the neighboring countries have for a long time refused to take them in. Israel had allowed a number of Gazans to work in Israel and given back land, that's going to stop. Those are some thoughts for the future, but the defeat of Hamas comes first.

 

[Valletta]

First off, Israel said there was a command center under al Shifa hospital in Gaza, but they have not provided any credible evidence of such a thing. Nevertheless, the hospital is now inoperable.

Second off, the situation we're talking about is after the war. Once Netanyahu succeeds and Hamas is defeated and Gaza is pacified. What is the plan "After the armies were defeated and the countries demilitarized?"

The US helped rebuild Germany and Japan. What does Israel plan for a future Gaza?

There was a two week battle for Shifa hospital, that's where Hamas was. Command center or not seems rather irrelevant at this time.

 

[essentialsaltes]

There was a two week battle for Shifa hospital

We don't have a good idea of what occurred, but most news sources talk about the fight "in and around" the hospital complex.

A second Israeli raid on the hospital, during which there were extensive gunfights in and around the hospital complex

The two-week military operation around the Al-Shifa hospital ended on 1 April 2024, with Israeli forces declaring they had withdrawn after "completing the operation".[106] The details of what occurred are a matter of significant debate, largely due to the lack of independent reporting from inside Gaza.

Published photos and videos showed signs of heavy destruction in and around the complex after the Israeli retreat.

UN special rapporteurs: "The extent of the atrocity is still unable to be fully documented due to its scale and gravity – and clearly represents the most horrific assault on Gaza’s hospitals. The besieging and destruction of a hospital and the killing of health workers, the sick and wounded, and the people who protect them, is prohibited by international law."

Once again, the evidence shown afterward does not match the allegations that allegedly justified attacking a hospital and killing patients and doctors.

The case of al-Shifa: Investigating the assault on Gaza’s largest hospital​

The evidence presented by the Israeli government falls short of showing that Hamas had been using the hospital as a command and control center, a Post analysis shows.

The claims were remarkably specific — that five hospital buildings were directly involved in Hamas activities; that the buildings sat atop underground tunnels that were used by militants to direct rocket attacks and command fighters; and that the tunnels could be accessed from inside hospital wards.

• The rooms connected to the tunnel network discovered by IDF troops showed no immediate evidence of military use by Hamas.
• None of the five hospital buildings identified by Hagari appeared to be connected to the tunnel network.
• There is no evidence that the tunnels could be accessed from inside hospital wards.

 

[Valletta]

We don't have a good idea of what occurred, but most news sources talk about the fight "in and around" the hospital complex.

A second Israeli raid on the hospital, during which there were extensive gunfights in and around the hospital complex

The two-week military operation around the Al-Shifa hospital ended on 1 April 2024, with Israeli forces declaring they had withdrawn after "completing the operation".[106] The details of what occurred are a matter of significant debate, largely due to the lack of independent reporting from inside Gaza.

Published photos and videos showed signs of heavy destruction in and around the complex after the Israeli retreat.

UN special rapporteurs: "The extent of the atrocity is still unable to be fully documented due to its scale and gravity – and clearly represents the most horrific assault on Gaza’s hospitals. The besieging and destruction of a hospital and the killing of health workers, the sick and wounded, and the people who protect them, is prohibited by international law."

You have to wonder how the busy doctors, nurses, and patients were able to fend off machine gun fire and heavy artillery fire and then hand to hand combat with only stethoscopes and such for defense.

 

[essentialsaltes]

You have to wonder how the busy doctors, nurses, and patients were able to fend off machine gun fire and heavy artillery fire and then hand to hand combat with only stethoscopes and such for defense.

They didn't. The IDF spent most of those two weeks searching this hospital buildings (that it controlled early on) for the command center it never found, while the battles continued in the neighborhood around the hospital.

 

[Valletta]

They didn't. The IDF spent most of those two weeks searching this hospital buildings (that it controlled early on) for the command center it never found, while the battles continued in the neighborhood around the hospital.

I don't understand. Why were the Hamas terrorists in the neighborhood around the hospital? Didn't they realize they were jeopardizing patients?

 

[Valletta]

Hopes are lagging for a cease-fire in Israel’s conflict with Hamas in Gaza that would calm attacks by Hezbollah and other Iranian-allied militias. With the stalled talks in mind, American and European diplomats and other officials are delivering warnings to Hezbollah — which is far stronger than Hamas but seen as overconfident — about taking on the military might of Israel, current and former diplomats say.

US, Europe warn Hezbollah to ease strikes on Israel and back off from wider Mideast war

Iran and Israel traded threats of what Iran said would be an “obliterating” war over Hezbollah.

www.yahoo.com

I do not have confidence in Joe.