Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Valletta]

I agree with your last sentence.

It's a start.

 

[JosephZ]

This you should believe.

What a War Between Israel and Hezbollah Might Look Like

The Lebanese armed group is trained and equipped much better than Hamas.

Hezbollah is a far more formidable foe than Hamas, since the former is thought to be the most heavily armed nonstate actor in the world, according to the Center for International and Strategic Studies. The group has built up a sophisticated arsenal with the assistance of Iran, Syria, and Russia.

“Hamas represents a tactical threat to the state of Israel. Hezbollah is a strategic threat to the state of Israel,” said Michael Oren, who served as Israel’s ambassador to the United States during the Obama administration.

The group is estimated to have some 130,000 rockets and missiles that could quickly overwhelm the country’s sophisticated air defense systems and hit its biggest cities.

“I’ve read estimates of what Hezbollah could do to us in three days that are just horrendous,” Oren said. “You’re talking about knocking out all of our essential infrastructure, oil refineries, air bases, Dimona,” he said, referring to the site of the country’s nuclear research facility.

On Tuesday, the Lebanese group published drone footage of Israel’s Haifa Port, located 17 miles from the Lebanese border, in an apparent bid to demonstrate its ability to penetrate Israel’s air defenses and reach deep into the country.

Israel and Hezbollah fought a 34-day war in 2006 that ended in a tense stalemate. In the years since, the Lebanese group has bolstered its arsenal and gained significant battlefield experience in Syria, fighting alongside Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps to prop up the embattled Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad during his country’s civil war. A Hezbollah commander told Voice of America in 2016 that the conflict was a “dress rehearsal” for the next war with Israel.

Like Hamas, Hezbollah is also thought to have developed a tunnel network that runs under Lebanon, which some Israeli analysts have argued is even more extensive than the one used by Hamas. And unlike Gaza, which is geographically isolated from its backers in Tehran, Iran has established ground and air supply routes leading to Lebanon through Iraq and Syria that could be used to sustain Hezbollah’s forces in the event of an all-out war.

 

[Valletta]

"In contrast, the Trump administration carried out a campaign of maximum pressure on Iran, including by insisting that European countries comply with U.S. and UN sanctions on the Islamic Republic. This show of resolve rallied important U.S. partners such as Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates and paved the way for the Abraham Accords. When U.S. allies see renewed American determination to contain the Islamist regime in Tehran, they will join with Washington and help bring peace to a region that is crucial to energy markets and global capital markets.
Unfortunately, the opposite has occurred during the Biden administration, which has failed to enforce existing sanctions on Iranian oil exports. In recent months, those exports reached a six-year high, exceeding 1.5 million barrels per day. The easing of sanctions enforcement has been a bonanza for Iran’s government and its military, netting them tens of billions of dollars a year. Restoring the Trump crackdown will curtail Iran’s ability to fund terrorist proxy forces in the Middle East and beyond. . .
A stronger policy to counter Iran would also lead to a more productive approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which is once again roiling the region. For decades, the conventional wisdom held that resolving that dispute was the key to improving security in the Middle East. But the conflict has become more of a symptom than a cause of tumult in the region, the true source of which is Iran’s revolutionary, theocratic regime. Tehran provides critical funding, arms, intelligence, and strategic guidance to an array of groups that threaten Israel’s security—not just Hamas, which sparked the current war in Gaza with its barbaric October 7 attack on Israel, but also the Lebanese terrorist organization Hezbollah and the Houthi militia in Yemen. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict cannot be solved until Iran is contained—and until Palestinian extremists stop trying to eliminate the Jewish state."

The Return of Peace Through Strength

Making the case for Trump’s foreign policy.

www.foreignaffairs.com

This is a truthful and realistic look at the Middle East.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Rift grows between Netanyahu and Israeli military over Hamas elimination​

Differences are emerging as the Israeli army says Hamas is an idea that cannot be eliminated, while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu continues to seek a “total victory” over the group in Gaza.

Netanyahu and his office have repeatedly stated that the main goal of the war is the destruction of Hamas, but they have avoided talking about how the Gaza Strip would be governed afterward — something the military insists needs to be established.

An Israel Defense Forces spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said in an interview late Wednesday with Channel 13: “Hamas cannot be destroyed. Hamas is an idea. Those who think it can be made to disappear are wrong.”

“What we can do is foster something new to replace Hamas. Who will that be? What will it be? That’s for the political leadership to decide.”

“Netanyahu has defined one of the war’s objectives as the destruction of Hamas’s military and governmental capabilities,” his office tweeted in response. “The IDF is, of course, committed to this.”

The IDF appeared to stand by Hagari’s comments, stating that they were made “explicitly and clearly.”

Washington has also counseled senior Israeli politicians to “connect its military operations [in Gaza] to a political strategy,” said U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan during a visit to Israel last month. So far, Netanyahu has lashed out at critics of his strategy and refused to succumb to pressure to formulate a day-after plan.

---

The IDF is obviously correct. They can keep killing Hamas soldiers and collateral damage, but 'Hamas' is unkillable. Either there is a political exit plan, or the IDF will have a forever war on its hands (or at least until everyone in Gaza is dead).

 

[civilwarbuff]

​

Israel-Hamas: Terrorists set up rocket launcher in Gaza humanitarian zone​

Not that I expect the forum hamas supporters to actually spend time learning about what their heroes really think of the gazan civilians, but.......

 

[civilwarbuff]

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israeli military straps injured Palestinian man to hood of jeep​

Video shows the man lying across the front of the Israeli jeep as it drove through a neighborhood of Jenin. The man appeared slumped on the hood of the vehicle as it drove past Palestinian Red Crescent (PRCS) ambulances.

The PRCS said the Israeli military had prevented its crews from providing first aid to an injured man in the Jabarat area of Jenin.

“They then placed the injured person on the front of a military jeep and detained him before later allowing our crews to transfer him to the hospital,” the PRCS said.

“The conduct of the forces in the video of the incident does not conform to the values of the IDF. The incident will be investigated and dealt with accordingly,” the IDF said in a statement.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Israeli military straps injured Palestinian man to hood of jeep​

Video shows the man lying across the front of the Israeli jeep as it drove through a neighborhood of Jenin. The man appeared slumped on the hood of the vehicle as it drove past Palestinian Red Crescent (PRCS) ambulances.

The PRCS said the Israeli military had prevented its crews from providing first aid to an injured man in the Jabarat area of Jenin.

“They then placed the injured person on the front of a military jeep and detained him before later allowing our crews to transfer him to the hospital,” the PRCS said.

“The conduct of the forces in the video of the incident does not conform to the values of the IDF. The incident will be investigated and dealt with accordingly,” the IDF said in a statement.

It is a very incomplete story. This picture is worth a thousand questions instead of just words.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It is a very incomplete story. This picture is worth a thousand questions instead of just words.

Well, the IDF is on the case!

 

[civilwarbuff]

Well, the IDF is on the case!

Well, the writer of the story certainly didn't give enough info to come to any conclusion. It was left open (intentionally?) to speculation.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Well, the writer of the story certainly didn't give enough info to come to any conclusion. It was left open (intentionally?) to speculation.

“The conduct of the forces in the video of the incident does not conform to the values of the IDF. The incident will be investigated and dealt with accordingly,” the IDF said in a statement.

It doesn't require speculation to say the IDF is investigating an incident that they state, without weasel words, does not adhere to the IDF's guidelines.

 

[civilwarbuff]

“The conduct of the forces in the video of the incident does not conform to the values of the IDF. The incident will be investigated and dealt with accordingly,” the IDF said in a statement.

It doesn't require speculation to say the IDF is investigating an incident that they state, without weasel words, does not adhere to the IDF's guidelines.

It sounds as though he is referring to what he saw in the video "“The conduct of the forces in the video of the incident..." not the results coming from an investigation. Perhaps the vehicles were already full of wounded or equipment that could not be left behind. I have seen many pictures from WWII of wounded GI's on litters laying across the hood of a jeep. Whatever works in an emergency.

 

[Pommer]

It sounds as though he is referring to what he saw in the video "“The conduct of the forces in the video of the incident..." not the results coming from an investigation. Perhaps the vehicles were already full of wounded or equipment that could not be left behind. I have seen many pictures from WWII of wounded GI's on litters laying across the hood of a jeep. Whatever works in an emergency.

Oh, was the injured person on the vehicle’s hood an IDF member?
They was trying to take care of their “buddy”?

 

[ralliann]

That is true and certainly, a point that Noa Tishby made in her book on Israel. Rashid Khalidi in his book on the 100 Years War Against Palestine puts forward a well-argued and well-documented case that suggests that it is only part of the story. I suspect that for anyone who wants to be informed these two are both worth reading. Demonising Hamas, Israel, IDF, and Palestinians, does not help. Many of the actions of Hamas should be condemned and are certainly not above criticism, however the actions of Israel whilst perhaps not actually genocide, may well have something of a genocidal flavour, and they appear ready to accept civilian casualties way beyond the normal range.

Who is ready to accept it?

MSN

www.msn.com

Whilst I do not propose to call Israel a Terrorist State, there is a problem where it seems they are ready to have a population deprived of essential services and aid, and subject to seemingly unfettered military attack.

Hamas sees it as beneficial to their cause....

 

[Pommer]

Who is ready to accept it?

Israel, they’re the only ones who have a choice in the matter.

MSN

www.msn.com

Hamas sees it as beneficial to their cause....

Israel is “helping” HAMAS achieve its ends by starving people?

Wow.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Oh, was the injured person on the vehicle’s hood an IDF member?
They was trying to take care of their “buddy”?

Nope, he was a suspect IIRC from the article. They weren't about to leave him behind. And, as I indicated, that may have well been the only open place on the vehicle. From the video you can't make any judgements.....though I can see that doesn't stop you.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Israel is “helping” HAMAS achieve its ends by starving people?

Wow.

See #4047.

 

[JosephZ]

Nope, he was a suspect IIRC from the article. They weren't about to leave him behind. And, as I indicated, that may have well been the only open place on the vehicle. From the video you can't make any judgements.....though I can see that doesn't stop you.

Palestinian man shot, tied to jeep says Israeli forces gave no explanation

Abadi, 24, said he had stepped outside his uncle’s house in Jenin while Israeli troops were conducting a raid in the neighbourhood.

He was shot in the arm and the leg and took shelter behind a nearby vehicle. He said after nearly two hours of hiding while his wounds were bleeding, Israeli troops forced him out of his hideout and started hurling punches and kicks at him, including at his bullet wounds.

“It was a big shock. I was wishing I was dead at that moment,” Abadi said, adding that although he was clearly unarmed, the troops did not provide him with any medical aid.

Instead, the Israeli troops wanted to inflict more pain on him, he said.

“Two soldiers lifted me up from my hands and feet and swung me back and forth to throw me at the military vehicle,” Abadi said.

The hood of the vehicle was extremely hot and left him with burns all over his back, he told Al Jazeera.

He said after being driven around on the military jeep, he was eventually dropped off at a house and transferred to Palestinian medics.

“Their only concern was to torture and beat me. They committed these crimes against me, beat me and tortured me, then they asked for my name,” the 24-year-old Palestinian said.

“They did not offer me any explanation – at all. On the contrary, they wanted to beat me some more. They did not tell me anything. All I remember is that they were laughing while they were beating me.”

Mujahed Abadi says has not been able to sleep since Israeli forces shot him, beat him and strapped him to the hood of a military vehicle two days ago, apparently using him as a human shield.

The Israeli military confirmed the incident on Saturday, describing Abadi as “one of the suspects” targeted in the raid who was “injured and apprehended”.

However, Abadi said he was a bystander, stressing that he is not wanted by Israel, as evidenced by his brief detention.




A Palestinian was shot, beaten and tied to an Israeli army jeep. The army says he posed no threat

When Mujahid Abadi stepped outside to see if Israeli forces had entered his uncle’s neighborhood, he was shot in the arm and the foot. That was only the start of his ordeal. Hours later, beaten and bloodied, he found himself strapped to the searing hood of an Israeli military jeep driving down a road.

The army initially said Abadi was a suspected militant, but later acknowledged he had not posed a threat to Israeli forces and was caught in crossfire with militants.

“I went outside to see what was happening, and looked towards the neighbors’ houses, where I saw the army,” he said. “When I tried to return to the house, heavy and indiscriminate gunfire was suddenly directed at me. My cousin who was near me was also hit.”

After a couple of hours, Israeli soldiers found him. He says they struck his head and face and in the areas where he had been shot. Then they dragged him by his legs, lifted him by his hands and feet and threw him onto the hood of the military jeep.

“I screamed because of the heat,” he said. “Then, one of the soldiers started cursing at me and told me to be quiet.”

The military said its forces had tied Abadi to the hood of the jeep to transport him to paramedics.

But Nebal Farsakh, a spokesperson for the Palestinian Red Crescent rescue service, said the army had sealed off the area and prevented paramedics from tending to the wounded for at least an hour.

In dashboard camera footage obtained by the AP, the jeep to which Abadi was tied drove past at least two ambulances. Abadi said he was lashed to the jeep for about half an hour before soldiers untied him and released him to paramedics.

In the West Bank, Israeli forces have carried out near-nightly raids, often setting off gunbattles with militants, and over 550 Palestinians have been killed.

 

[ralliann]

Israel, they’re the only ones who have a choice in the matter.

Israel is the only one to surrender?

Israel is “helping” HAMAS achieve its ends by starving people?

Wow.

Yep....Sad the mindset of these people heh?

 

[Valletta]

Rift grows between Netanyahu and Israeli military over Hamas elimination​

Differences are emerging as the Israeli army says Hamas is an idea that cannot be eliminated, while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu continues to seek a “total victory” over the group in Gaza.

Netanyahu and his office have repeatedly stated that the main goal of the war is the destruction of Hamas, but they have avoided talking about how the Gaza Strip would be governed afterward — something the military insists needs to be established.

An Israel Defense Forces spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said in an interview late Wednesday with Channel 13: “Hamas cannot be destroyed. Hamas is an idea. Those who think it can be made to disappear are wrong.”

“What we can do is foster something new to replace Hamas. Who will that be? What will it be? That’s for the political leadership to decide.”

“Netanyahu has defined one of the war’s objectives as the destruction of Hamas’s military and governmental capabilities,” his office tweeted in response. “The IDF is, of course, committed to this.”

The IDF appeared to stand by Hagari’s comments, stating that they were made “explicitly and clearly.”

Washington has also counseled senior Israeli politicians to “connect its military operations [in Gaza] to a political strategy,” said U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan during a visit to Israel last month. So far, Netanyahu has lashed out at critics of his strategy and refused to succumb to pressure to formulate a day-after plan.

---

The IDF is obviously correct. They can keep killing Hamas soldiers and collateral damage, but 'Hamas' is unkillable. Either there is a political exit plan, or the IDF will have a forever war on its hands (or at least until everyone in Gaza is dead).

It's like Nazism and Japanese nationalism. Yes the ideas are still out there, yes there will be new followers, but their armies were defeated and the death toll exacted upon the world has been reduced to almost zero. But you're never going to completely eradicate evil. It is important to remember that Iran controls the actions of Hezbollah and Hamas, and with the billions of dollars the U.S. released to Iran they now have enough money to gain a delivery system for an atomic bomb. A major task of Israel is to destroy Iran's nuclear capability, and if they do not succeed the rest will not matter.