Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Desk trauma]

Palestinians have violated the Geneva Conventions, and after Israel rescues the hostages and is victorious against Hamas there should be international trials to prosecute those who supported the jihad.

How do you imagine that happening? Israel does not recognize the ICJ as having jurisdiction in it nor Gaza, are they going to make up their own international court? What other nations do you imagine would get involved in that?

 

[essentialsaltes]

How do you imagine that happening? Israel does not recognize the ICJ as having jurisdiction in it nor Gaza, are they going to make up their own international court? What other nations do you imagine would get involved in that?

Families of Israeli hostages to file war crimes complaint against Hamas in The Hague​

Over the past four months, lawyers for the Hostages and Missing Families Forum, which is representing the hostages’ relatives, have prepared a legal submission demanding that arrest warrants be issued against the Hamas leadership for the October 7 atrocities.

Prof. Robbie Sabel of the Faculty of Law at the Hebrew University noted that the ICC’s chief prosecutor, Karim Kahn, has already stated that he is carrying out an investigation into Hamas’s actions, as well as Israel’s military operation in Gaza.

Although Israel is not a member, individuals can address the ICC.

 

[Desk trauma]

Although Israel is not a member, individuals can address the ICC.

Now the next question, should that case be tried and Hamas be convicted of war crimes how will Israel react to the verdict from a court it does not recognize?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Video is said to show U.N. relief worker taking Israeli shot on Oct. 7​

Israel told the United Nations Relief and Works Agency last month that Faisal Ali Musalam Naami, 45, and 11 other UNRWA employees participated in or lent support to the Hamas-led assault on southern Israel that precipitated Israel’s war in the besieged Palestinian territory.

The footage of the person Israel identified as Naami would be the first to surface publicly of any of the accused individuals participating in the attack.

The CCTV footage, located independently by The Washington Post, provides a fuller picture than the brief account in the public dossier, which says Naami “was involved in kidnapping a soldier from Beeri.”

[WaPo's own investigation shows the man and his car are very consistent with it being Naami]

In the footage from Oct. 7, the SUV drives toward an open gate to Kibbutz Beeri shortly after 9:30 a.m. and stops just inside the entrance, where three men who had been shot and dragged from a car are lying motionless on the ground.

They approach one of the people who had been shot, a man on the street next to an overturned cooler. It is not clear if he is alive, but he does not react as the man identified as Naami takes him by the jacket, the other man lifts his legs and they carry him to the trunk and place him inside.

It is not clear why or where the two men took the Israeli or why they left the other bodies.

On Oct. 16, Naami, five of his children and one of his two wives were killed in a strike on their home in Nuseirat, according to a UNRWA colleague

The Israel Defense Forces told The Post it “is unaware of a strike at the specified area or time.” A spokesperson, speaking on the condition of anonymity per the agency’s protocol, did not respond when asked if Naami had been targeted.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You: "they are simply contributing to the demise of themselves and their children"
They are not "shooting themselves" they are being shot and bombed etc. by the IDF

It appears you do not understand what an idiom is. A good definition: Shooting yourself in the foot is an idiom that signifies self-sabotage or committing a foolish mistake that can have detrimental consequences. For example, “If we don’t sign up for this special deal, we’re essentially shooting ourselves in the foot.”

Shoot Yourself in the Foot—An Expression of Self-Destruction

Shooting yourself in the foot is an idiom that signifies self-sabotage or committing a foolish mistake that can have detrimental consequences. For example, “If we don’t sign up for this special deal, we’re essentially shooting

grammarist.com

The vast majority of the Gazans who have been killed by the IDF did not take part in the Oct 7 attack, or any other similar attack.

No one has to take part in anything to agree with and/or support it. There were a lot of people in gaza celebrating Oct 7 that most likely are not hamas; they just enjoy the killing of Jews. After a few days they weren't celebrating anymore. They were reaping the whirlwind.....and still are to the present time. I have no sympathy for them (except the children; the true innocents).

 

[JosephZ]

The world reduced Nazism to the point that its' philosophy is no more significant than that of a gnat buzzing about your head. The world, and it will take the world, can do the same to extremist Islam fundamentalism.

The Nazis were state actors operating at the direction of the state. When Germany was defeated, so was Nazism. What we see in the world today is neo-Nazism which isn't really Nazism, it's an ideology trying to imitate it.

What works when fighting a state with a standing army doesn't work when fighting terrorist groups.

 

[civilwarbuff]

When Germany was defeated, so was Nazism.

Eh...not quite. It took re-education of the German people from pre-school to old age to minimize the effects of Nazism. Even today there are still those who believe 'Hitler was right.' and etc propaganda. Most neo-nazi groups today seem to focus more on criminality than the nazi stated goal of Aryanism.

 

[Valletta]

The Nazis were state actors operating at the direction of the state. When Germany was defeated, so was Nazism. What we see in the world today is neo-Nazism which isn't really Nazism, it's an ideology trying to imitate it.

What works when fighting a state with a standing army doesn't work when fighting terrorist groups.

Germany had a loose alliance with the Palestinians, the Palestinians tried to get close but Germans considered themselves the master race. Both hated Jews and thus worked together. The Japanese were closer to jihadists in nature, very cruel, many thought nothing of the people under their control and were happy to kill prisoners rather than let them be rescued. It's somewhat different with terrorist leadership, the Japanese leaders were willing to sacrifice themselves while jihadists leaders are much more cowardly. It is the same in that the only way for victory against fanatics set on genocide is to pretty much eliminate them.

 

[Valletta]

Israel’s military intelligence circulated a document to Israeli leaders this week warning that even if the IDF succeeds in dismantling Hamas as an organized military force in Gaza, it will survive as “a terror group and a guerrilla group,”

The document, drawn up by the research division of IDF Military Intelligence, reportedly also states that “authentic support remains” for Hamas among Gazans.

“there won’t be absolute victory” — as predicted and demanded by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu since the start of the war.

From the start of the war, IDF chief Herzi Halevi has generally spoken of “dismantling” rather than eliminating or eradicating Hamas, a term implicitly acknowledging that even a protracted war will not be able to destroy every military and terror threat from the Strip.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-idf-intel-assesses-that-hamas-will-survive-as-terror-group-post-war/

It could be. They can speculate, it is an informed guess. There were still Nazis after World War II who went to South America, but their activities were greatly curtailed. Today there are still Nazis.

 

[rjs330]

It could be. They can speculate, it is an informed guess. There were still Nazis after World War II who went to South America, but their activities were greatly curtailed. Today there are still Nazis.

At least the Gazans know what they are in for if they allow it to b come an issue.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Nasser Hospital no longer functional as Israeli raid continues, WHO says​

An estimated 200 patients remain inside the hospital, [WHO chief] Tedros said in a social media post, adding that for the past two days, WHO workers had been denied entry to assess patients.

 

[Vanellus]

It appears you do not understand what an idiom is. A good definition: Shooting yourself in the foot is an idiom that signifies self-sabotage or committing a foolish mistake that can have detrimental consequences. For example, “If we don’t sign up for this special deal, we’re essentially shooting ourselves in the foot.”

Shoot Yourself in the Foot—An Expression of Self-Destruction

Shooting yourself in the foot is an idiom that signifies self-sabotage or committing a foolish mistake that can have detrimental consequences. For example, “If we don’t sign up for this special deal, we’re essentially shooting

grammarist.com

No one has to take part in anything to agree with and/or support it. There were a lot of people in gaza celebrating Oct 7 that most likely are not hamas; they just enjoy the killing of Jews. After a few days they weren't celebrating anymore. They were reaping the whirlwind.....and still are to the present time. I have no sympathy for them (except the children; the true innocents).

Agreeing with something is not generally punishable by death in any legal system I know. It's also a huge assumption by you based on nothing except maybe politically motivated polls or so called news coverage aimed at dehumanising Palestinians (referred to as cockroaches etc. by some Israelis).

Thanks for the condescending mansplaining but I do know what "shooting yourself in the foot" means. In this case, the detrimental consequences is death and destruction for Palestinians in Gaza and Gaza on a much more intense scale than in Ukraine, and that includes being shot.

The language being used to describe Palestinians is genocidal | Chris McGreal

Those who led and carried out the Rwandan genocide often cast it in the language of Tutsis as outsiders and interlopers, and the killing as an act of self-defence. If we don’t do it to them, they will do it to us.

Tutsis were debased as “cockroaches”, a word also invoked by a then chief of the Israeli defence forces to describe Palestinians. Other Israeli political, military and religious leaders have at different times described Palestinians as “a cancer”, “vermin”, and called for them to be “annihilated”. They are frequently portrayed as backward and a burden on the country.

 

[Valletta]

Agreeing with something is not generally punishable by death in any legal system I know. It's also a huge assumption by you based on nothing except maybe politically motivated polls or so called news coverage aimed at dehumanising Palestinians (referred to as cockroaches etc. by Israelis).

Thanks for the condescending mansplaining but I do know what "shooting yourself in the foot" means. In this case, the detrimental consequences is death and destruction for Palestinians in Gaza and Gaza on a much more intense scale than in Ukraine, and that includes being shot.

The language being used to describe Palestinians is genocidal | Chris McGreal

It appears most of the Palestinians support a jihad. I am sorry for the young children and others who do not.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Agreeing with something is not generally punishable by death in any legal system I know.

Navalny might have a different opinion.....

It's also a huge assumption by you based on nothing except maybe politically motivated polls or so called news coverage aimed at dehumanising Palestinians (referred to as cockroaches etc. by Israelis).

Well, let's not get into Islamic teaching in their schools that teach killing Jews is a good thing. 'Cockroaches' seems pretty tame by comparison.

Thanks for the condescending mansplaining .....

Anytime.

In this case, the detrimental consequences is death and destruction for Palestinians in Gaza and Gaza on a much more intense scale than in Ukraine, and that includes being shot.

Which is totally in the gazans power to prevent by turning on hamas....but still nada from them (gazans). Maybe they prefer death for themselves, wives, and children by Israeli bombs.....after all that makes them 'martyrs', right? Wonder if they (wives and children) were asked their POV on that subject?

 

[Vanellus]

Navalny might have a different opinion.....

Comparing the Israeli leadership with the Russian leadership. Are you beginning to see the light about the true intentions of the Israeli government?

'Cockroaches' seems pretty tame by comparison.

So do you think it's ok to compare the people of Gaza to cockroaches?

Which is totally in the gazans power to prevent by turning on hamas....but still nada from them (gazans). Maybe they prefer death for themselves, wives, and children by Israeli bombs.....after all that makes them 'martyrs', right? Wonder if they (wives and children) were asked their POV on that subject?

As has been well explained before on this thread Hamas isn't going to be destroyed: it's an organisation which can be joined by new people at any time and Israel is giving them plenty of reason to do so. One might kill a few leaders, capture some weapons caches but that was happening for decades with the IRA - which only disbanded after a political settlement.

The real intention is to turn Gaza into an uninhabitable wasteland and ethnically cleanse (or kill) the people out of Gaza - a second Nakba. This is why hospitals, universities, schools, libraries etc have been destroyed.

 

[Valletta]

Comparing the Israeli leadership with the Russian leadership. Are you beginning to see the light about the true intentions of the Israeli government?

So do you think it's ok to compare the people of Gaza to cockroaches?

As has been well explained before on this thread Hamas isn't going to be destroyed: it's an organisation which can be joined by new people at any time and Israel is giving them plenty of reason to do so. One might kill a few leaders, capture some weapons caches but that was happening for decades with the IRA - which only disbanded after a political settlement.

The real intention is to turn Gaza into an uninhabitable wasteland and ethnically cleanse (or kill) the people out of Gaza - a second Nakba. This is why hospitals, universities, schools, libraries etc have been destroyed.

As I have previously explained, Hamas may still exist, much like the Nazi Party still exists today. Sadly, there are always those who align themselves with evil. It is clear that with all of the tunnels to hospitals and schools a good portion of the Palestinians had to be aware that money for the families and children of Gaza was being diverted to kill Jews. I think they should be put on trial as accessories. Egypt and other countries realize this and are taking in few Palestinians.

 

[JosephZ]

As I have previously explained, Hamas may still exist, much like the Nazi Party still exists today.

The Nazi Party no longer exists.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Comparing the Israeli leadership with the Russian leadership. Are you beginning to see the light about the true intentions of the Israeli government?

You didn't make a comparison. You said: "Agreeing with something is not generally punishable by death in any legal system I know."

So do you think it's ok to compare the people of Gaza to cockroaches?

Do you think it is a good thing to teach elementary kids that it is OK to kill Jews?

This is why hospitals, universities, schools, libraries etc have been destroyed.

No, they have been attacked because the gazans allow hamas to use them for military purposes. You need to read more news.

 

[Valletta]

There you go.

 

[Vanellus]

As I have previously explained, Hamas may still exist, much like the Nazi Party still exists today. Sadly, there are always those who align themselves with evil. It is clear that with all of the tunnels to hospitals and schools a good portion of the Palestinians had to be aware that money for the families and children of Gaza was being diverted to kill Jews. I think they should be put on trial as accessories. Egypt and other countries realize this and are taking in few Palestinians.

Yeah just keep on repeating the IDF propaganda. The "tunnel" entrance found near the al Shifa hospital may well correspond to a bunker facility built by Israel at the hospital in 1983 as reported by The Tablet.

There are tunnels between Gaza and Egypt built to enable the transport of goods which are forbidden by Israel since the blockade that started in 2007. This plays into the hands of Hamas as this short video explains

from https://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20091227

Not only is the siege unlawful and immoral, it is also utter folly. Two and a half years after it began, not only has Israel's siege not eroded the status of the Hamas government, it has even achieved the opposite effect. One reason is that Palestinians have built hundreds of tunnels under Gaza's border with Egypt, which they use to smuggle in goods, as well as to flood Gaza with weapons. The media and international agencies have extensively documented the way in which the Hamas government controls the tunnel economy and collects taxes on the goods passing through them.

Israel has the right and the duty to protect its citizens from attacks coming from Gaza, yet it is not allowed to exploit its control of the crossings to collectively punish one and a half million persons.

So it would seem it is the Israeli government that should be put on trial as accessories as their blockade has provided funding to Hamas - and as we know Netanyahu saw Hamas as a useful tool to divide and rule the Palestinians

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.

According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.

While Netanyahu does not make these kind of statements publicly or officially, his words are in line with the policy that he implemented.