Israel-Hamas Thread II

[DaisyDay]

You mean the beginning of genocide against all Jew's?

I don't think you are that ignorant or unable to derive meaning from words.

Because Hamas hides behind them and does not protect it's citizens.

Why is that justification for genocide?

Revenge does not fit here. It is defense from genocide.

The genocide is being waged on the Palestinians, after years of being in an open air prison with limited access to their own funds, water or electricity.

Double standards is all you have here.

*are*
Spell out what you think the double standard here is? Can you do the math:

• How many Israelis were killed in the Hamas attack out of how many total?
• How many Gazans were killed in retaliation out of how many total?

 

[Vanellus]

Bodies of missing 6-year-old, paramedics found in north Gaza, aid group says​

The body of Hind Rajab, the 6-year-old missing for 12 days since losing touch with rescue workers desperately trying to save her after the family car was fired on in Gaza City, has been found, the Palestine Red Crescent Society said Saturday.

Rana Faqih, a PRCS worker who stayed on the phone with the child as she begged for hours to be rescued on Jan. 29, confirmed that she had been found dead. Hind had explained that she was the sole survivor in the vehicle after it was fired on by Israeli forces as the family tried to flee the Tel Hawa area of Gaza City. Her aunt, uncle and three cousins were all killed.

The ambulance dispatched to reach her was also found shelled on Saturday with the two paramedics inside also killed, the PCRS said. In a statement, it accused the Israeli military of directly targeting the ambulance crew as it tried to rescue the child. The route had been coordinated with Israeli authorities in advance, it said.

--

Hind’s cousin, 15-year-old Layan Hamadeh, made a desperate call for help to emergency services that was recorded by the PRCS and shared on social media. Audio of gunshots heard during the call revealed that Hamadeh was killed while making the call.

The paramedic on the phone tries to speak to her, repeatedly saying, “Hello? Hello?” but there is no response.

Alone, terrified and trapped in the car with the bodies of her relatives around her, Hind made a desperate call for help.

“Come take me. Will you come and take me? I’m so scared, please come!” Hind can be heard saying in a recording of the call to responders, released by the PRCS.

Another victory for the brave heroic IDF

 

[Valletta]

I don't think you are that ignorant or unable to derive meaning from words.


Why is that justification for genocide?


The genocide is being waged on the Palestinians, after years of being in an open air prison with limited access to their own funds, water or electricity.


*are*
Spell out what you think the double standard here is? Can you do the math:

• How many Israelis were killed in the Hamas attack out of how many total?
• How many Gazans were killed in retaliation out of how many total?

I'm sorry they were poor and felt oppressed, I really am. I know people who have had it tough, worse than the average person in Gaza. But had they taken all of the donations and used them for the people instead of tunnels and rockets they would have been much better off.

 

[DaisyDay]

I'm sorry they were poor and felt oppressed, I really am.

Yeah, "felt" oppressed. Was that because they were not allowed to leave the Gaza freely? Was it because Israel controlled their water and electricity, parceling it out in drips and drabs? Was it because their coastline was blockaded with no free trading allowed? Was it because they got shot at when tending their orchards near the border? Was it because Israel confiscated their funds and moneys? How many Palestinians have been killed extra-judiciously by Israeli settlers and were any of the settlers ever reprimanded? Is it because they've been occupied for seventy years?

I know people who have had it tough, worse than the average person in Gaza.

How do you compare the misery of the average person in Gaza with your friends?

But had they taken all of the donations and used them for the people instead of tunnels and rockets they would have been much better off.

Perhaps, but it is a genocide right now.

 

[essentialsaltes]

You betcha.

Right, so your red herring about hostages was just that. The families of the hostages are also among the many people who are critical of the way Israel is carrying out its war.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Israel is holding up food for 1.1 million Palestinians in Gaza, the main UN aid agency there says​

That stoppage means 1,049 shipping containers of rice, flour, chickpeas, sugar and cooking oil — enough to feed 1.1 million people for one month — are stuck, even as an estimated 25% of families in Gaza face catastrophic hunger.

If the gazans want this war to end they can help by locating and identifying hamas fighters, tunnel entrances and supply storage areas to the IDF. But since they won't they are simply contributing to the demise of themselves and their children. They should tremble when they think of the perfect justice they will face from God when they, as all of us, will do someday.

 

[Vanellus]

If the gazans want this war to end they can help by locating and identifying hamas fighters, tunnel entrances and supply storage areas to the IDF. But since they won't they are simply contributing to the demise of themselves and their children. They should tremble when they think of the perfect justice they will face from God when they, as all of us, will do someday.

This post endorses collective punishment which is a war crime:

According to Médecins Sans Frontières:[3]

International law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is forbidden...This is one of the fundamental guarantees established by the Geneva Conventions and their protocols. This guarantee is applicable not only to protected persons but to all individuals, no matter what their status, or to what category of persons they belong..."

Original source: Backer, Larry Catá. "The Führer Principle of International Law: Individual Responsibility and Collective Punishment". Penn State International Law Review.

 

[civilwarbuff]

This post endorses collective punishment which is a war crime:

Not at all. It points out that the gazans are simply shooting themselves in the foot and then attempting to blame others for them, gazans, pulling the trigger. It is learned helplessness. They (and hamas) have convinced themselves (gazans) they are not responsible for the predicament of their own making so they choose to do nothing except blame others for their suffering.

Original source: Backer, Larry Catá. "The Führer Principle of International Law: Individual Responsibility and Collective Punishment". Penn State International Law Review.

International Law can say what it wants. It does not change the fact that the gazans alone are responsible for their situation and they can fix it. They don't have to do it alone. There are many countries (including Islamic countries) that would be happy to help them eradicate hamas. Until they understand that and take action they will continue to die.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Families of Israeli hostages to file war crimes complaint against Hamas in The Hague​

Over the past four months, lawyers for the Hostages and Missing Families Forum, which is representing the hostages’ relatives, have prepared a legal submission demanding that arrest warrants be issued against the Hamas leadership for the October 7 atrocities.

The complaint will include charges against Hamas leaders of “kidnapping, crimes of sexual violence, torture and other serious allegations,” the forum said in a statement to the press.

Prof. Robbie Sabel of the Faculty of Law at the Hebrew University noted that the ICC’s chief prosecutor, Karim Kahn, has already stated that he is carrying out an investigation into Hamas’s actions, as well as Israel’s military operation in Gaza.

He ... cautioned that it typically takes a significant period of time for the ICC to issue arrest warrants after a complaint is filed.

The ICC can prosecute individuals for serious violations of the Geneva Conventions that amount to war crimes, based on complaints submitted by international organizations, individuals, or parties to the court, while the court itself can also initiate examinations and investigations into possible violations of the laws of armed conflict.

[Israel itself is not a member of the ICC and does not recognize it.]

 

[Vanellus]

Not at all. It points out that the gazans are simply shooting themselves in the foot and then attempting to blame others for them, gazans, pulling the trigger. It is learned helplessness. They (and hamas) have convinced themselves (gazans) they are not responsible for the predicament of their own making so they choose to do nothing except blame others for their suffering.

International Law can say what it wants. It does not change the fact that the gazans alone are responsible for their situation and they can fix it. They don't have to do it alone. There are many countries (including Islamic countries) that would be happy to help them eradicate hamas. Until they understand that and take action they will continue to die.

You are completely wrong of course.

You: "they are simply contributing to the demise of themselves and their children"
They are not "shooting themselves" they are being shot and bombed etc. by the IDF

Penn State International Law Review.: "International law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is forbidden..."

The vast majority of the Gazans who have been killed by the IDF did not take part in the Oct 7 attack, or any other similar attack.
But you are endorsing their killing by the IDF for crimes they did not commit or for not doing actions that you think they ought to do - when in practice they are struggling to survive in a most heinous situation inflicted on them by Israel.

 

[Vanellus]

[Israel itself is not a member of the ICC and does not recognize it.]

Along with USA, China and Russia I believe. What else do these countries have in common?
What's next in the sequence? Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine, Gaza - West Bank maybe or Taiwan?

 

[Vanellus]

Another heroic act by the brave IDF
Israel-Hamas war: Palestinian siblings see parents killed in IDF raid

and this video shows 12 year old Sidra Hassouna in happier days before her mutilated body was hanging on a spike in Gaza
The horrific part is blurred out

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1757163519080890397

 

[Valletta]

You are completely wrong of course.

You: "they are simply contributing to the demise of themselves and their children"
They are not "shooting themselves" they are being shot and bombed etc. by the IDF

Penn State International Law Review.: "International law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is forbidden..."

The vast majority of the Gazans who have been killed by the IDF did not take part in the Oct 7 attack, or any other similar attack.
But you are endorsing their killing by the IDF for crimes they did not commit or for not doing actions that you think they ought to do - when in practice they are struggling to survive in a most heinous situation inflicted on them by Israel.

So too the civilian populations of Japan and Germany suffered in World War II. War is hell.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Short video (3:39) showing Yayha Sinwar(?) in gazan tunnel.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Four patients die during outage in Nasser Hospital raid, Gaza officials say​

The Israeli military continued its raid on Nasser Hospital, the main hospital in southern Gaza’s Khan Younis, on Friday, calling it an operation to recover the bodies of hostages. The Gaza Health Ministry said four intensive care patients have died of a lack of oxygen during a power outage at the hospital and that the military was moving patients and entering buildings in the complex.

Hazem Bahlool, a doctor at Nasser Hospital, said at 7 a.m. local time Friday that the facility had been without water or electricity for more than three hours. The Israel Defense Forces said in a Thursday night update that it had not yet located any hostages in the hospital but had found weapons.

The U.N. Human Rights Office said Thursday that Israel’s raid on Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis appeared to be “part of a pattern of attacks” on “life-saving civilian infrastructure in Gaza, especially hospitals.”

Israeli officials have repeatedly said that Hamas has operated out of hospitals, though it has provided little evidence to support the claim.

 

[Vanellus]

So too the civilian populations of Japan and Germany suffered in World War II. War is hell.

That's why we have the updated Geneva Conventions to outlaw such actions. Looking back to the past doesn't work. The Roman Empire threw Christians to the lions - should that happen again?

 

[Valletta]

Israel has gone to amazing lengths to avoid civilian casualties. As with the Japanese and the Germans, the vast majority supported their governments. The same goes for Gaza. Palestinians have violated the Geneva Conventions, and after Israel rescues the hostages and is victorious against Hamas there should be international trials to prosecute those who supported the jihad.

 

[JosephZ]

Israel’s military intelligence circulated a document to Israeli leaders this week warning that even if the IDF succeeds in dismantling Hamas as an organized military force in Gaza, it will survive as “a terror group and a guerrilla group,”

The document, drawn up by the research division of IDF Military Intelligence, reportedly also states that “authentic support remains” for Hamas among Gazans.

“there won’t be absolute victory” — as predicted and demanded by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu since the start of the war.

From the start of the war, IDF chief Herzi Halevi has generally spoken of “dismantling” rather than eliminating or eradicating Hamas, a term implicitly acknowledging that even a protracted war will not be able to destroy every military and terror threat from the Strip.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-idf-intel-assesses-that-hamas-will-survive-as-terror-group-post-war/

 

[civilwarbuff]

The U.N. Human Rights Office said Thursday that Israel’s raid on Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis appeared to be “part of a pattern of attacks” on “life-saving civilian infrastructure in Gaza, especially hospitals.”

Gaza War: IDF raids continue in Nasser Hospital; watch chilling confession of Hamas operative​

starts at 2:13.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Israel’s military intelligence circulated a document to Israeli leaders this week warning that even if the IDF succeeds in dismantling Hamas as an organized military force in Gaza, it will survive as “a terror group and a guerrilla group,”

The document, drawn up by the research division of IDF Military Intelligence, reportedly also states that “authentic support remains” for Hamas among Gazans.

“there won’t be absolute victory” — as predicted and demanded by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu since the start of the war.

From the start of the war, IDF chief Herzi Halevi has generally spoken of “dismantling” rather than eliminating or eradicating Hamas, a term implicitly acknowledging that even a protracted war will not be able to destroy every military and terror threat from the Strip.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-idf-intel-assesses-that-hamas-will-survive-as-terror-group-post-war/

The world reduced Nazism to the point that its' philosophy is no more significant than that of a gnat buzzing about your head. The world, and it will take the world, can do the same to extremist Islam fundamentalism. The primary holdback to accomplishing that is the Islamic states themselves especially those that covertly (some openly) support hamas financially, politically, and socially.