Israel-Hamas Thread II

[o_mlly]

You did not cite in your post the very relevant date of the article you were referencing.

Because the date was not relevant.

Do you know the ten commandments?

Yes, quite well. Which one do you need help you with?

 

[o_mlly]

What is being posted is pictures of children with guns. No comment on the picture. Just let it sit there so people can draw their own conclusions. ...

For your safety, I strongly recommend you switch to a non-flammable hair gel before reading any more of my posts. Get a grip.

 

[o_mlly]

You seem to love turning valid comments into a cynical inference...

This strawman's MO is to first inform the poster that he, having infallibly read the poster's mind, knows that his strawman was clearly implied by the poster.

 

[wing2000]

Israeli military says it mistakenly killed 3 Israeli hostages in Gaza​

The soldiers mistakenly identified the three Israelis as a threat and opened fire on them, said the army’s chief spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari.

...more details:

The three hostages mistakenly killed by Israeli forces in Gaza were carrying a makeshift white flag when a soldier who felt threatened opened fire, a senior Israeli military official said Saturday, adding that an investigation was underway.

They were “all without shirts” and carried “a stick with a white cloth on it,” emerging “tens of meters” from an Israeli military position, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity in line with the rules of the briefing.
The official said a soldier felt threatened and opened fire. Two of the hostages were killed immediately while the third was injured and ran back to a building, he said. A cry for help was heard in Hebrew and the battalion commander issued an order to cease-fire but there was “another burst of fire” and the third hostage was killed, he said.

“This was against our rules of engagement,” the official said, adding that the preliminary investigation was ongoing at the “highest level.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/16/israel-gaza-war-hamas-news-updates/#link-EUASA75IDJAAFBTHB65ALH4N5M

 

[wing2000]

The data is blatantly dishonest. I'm not surprised. First of all we really have no idea who these civilians are. And we have no idea how many y of these civilians were enabling and supporting Hamas.

These are the kind of blanket assertions that have no context and this are meaningless and are simply cited to enflame emotions.

Sure there are innocent people being killed as collateral damage during legitimate targeting of military targets.

With 70% of people supporting Hamas than the killing of 100 civilians means only 30 of them were not supporters of a terrorist organization and are most likely people who are involved in working and teaching everyone to hate and kill the Jews.

You don't know if the "data is blatanly dishonest".
Third parties such as the US State Department believe the casulaty figures are greater given the context of ariel bombing.
It's simply a fact that thousand of non-combatants are dying at a much higher rate than in similar conflicts.

Secondly, on one hand you say the data is dishonest, and then turne around imply 70% those supporting Hamas are not inocents (and presumably are fair targets in your mind).

Is that your perspective?

 

[essentialsaltes]

...more details:

The three hostages mistakenly killed by Israeli forces in Gaza were carrying a makeshift white flag when a soldier who felt threatened opened fire, a senior Israeli military official said Saturday, adding that an investigation was underway.

Wow, I guess I have a new answer when someone asks why Hamas doesn't just surrender.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Jnena, a contractor for the U.S. Agency for International Development, died along with his family after an Israeli airstrike hit the Al Sabra neighborhood of Gaza City on Nov. 4, according to a statement his employer provided to The Washington Post.

Before he was killed alongside his wife and two children in Gaza last month, Hani Jnena, 33, sent a final message to his colleagues in the West Bank.

“My daughters are terrified, and I am trying to keep them calm, but this bombing is terrifying,” he wrote, referring to Israel’s campaign of airstrikes and artillery bombardment of the Palestinian enclave.

He is among hundreds of humanitarian and development workers killed during the two-month conflict

Besides frustration directed at the White House, several USAID employees expressed disappointment that the killing of Jnena was not acknowledged by the agency publicly or in internal staff-wide communication.

 

[DaisyDay]

So what? Are you trying to say that any citation older than what -- a day?, a year?, a decade? -- must be dismissed? Well, that would put the bible in a bad place.

If that were what I was trying to say, then that’s what I would say. But you got that wrong.

Unlike you, and many others who flood this thread with unverified reports of war atrocities which amount to no more than accusations, I wrote that the source of the reported IDF war crime has a history of anti-Israel bias and should be suspect.

Good for you for recognizing that your own source is biased. You are mistaken that I have flooded this thread with unverified reports of atrocities. Perhaps you should refrain from such accusations.

However, if the report is verified then those IDF soldiers responsible should be brought to justice.

What would that justice look like?

Did you bother to read my post, or did you just light your hair on fire?

My hair is fine.

 

[o_mlly]

If that were what I was trying to say, then that’s what I would say. ... Good for you for recognizing that your own source is biased.

OK. Say whatever it is that you were trying to say.

If my source is wrong in labelling Euro-Med as probably biased then cite a Euro-Med report in which Hamas is criticized as a human rights violator. Or are you OK with what Hamas did on October 7, 2023?

Always trying to help, here's Euro-Med's own list of their press releases after the Hamas massacre of Oct. 7, 2023:

Press Releases

euromedmonitor.org

Gee, nothing posted for Oct. 7 or Oct. 8. But look at Oct. 9 and 10.

Israel takes revenge on Palestinian armed factions by mass killing civilians in Gaza​

Israel commits widespread war crimes in Gaza​

Glad the singed hair look came back into fashion for you.

 

[DaisyDay]

OK. Say whatever it is that you were trying to say.

I already did.

If my source is wrong in labelling Euro-Med as probably biased then cite a Euro-Med report in which Hamas is criticized as a human rights violator. Or are you OK with what Hamas did on October 7, 2023?

It’s your claim that your source is biased. And no.

Always trying to help, here's Euro-Med's own list of their press releases after the Hamas massacre of Oct. 7, 2023:
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/category/16/Press-Releases?page=7

Gee, nothing posted for Oct. 7 or Oct. 8. But look at Oct. 9 and 10.

Israel takes revenge on Palestinian armed factions by mass killing civilians in Gaza​

Israel commits widespread war crimes in Gaza​

What is your point?

Glad the singed hair look came back into fashion for you.

My hair is fine. The problem is evidently yours.

 

[wing2000]

Wow, I guess I have a new answer when someone asks why Hamas doesn't just surrender.

....it only takes one inexperienced and scared soldier to pull the trigger.

 

[Bradskii]

16 and 17 year olds with automatic weapons should be targets.

Then why post a picture of a ten year old?

 

[Bradskii]

You seem to love turning valid comments into a cynical inference...

There was no comment. It was a picture of an abused ten year old girl with a gun. It's up to you to make the inference, Carl. Let me know your thoughts on it.

 

[Bradskii]

For your safety, I strongly recommend you switch to a non-flammable hair gel before reading any more of my posts. Get a grip.

I'll just quote again what I said:

'What is being posted is pictures of children with guns. No comment on the picture. Just let it sit there so people can draw their own conclusions.'

Which is exactly what happened. Why exactly did you post it? Are you worried about the situation in Uganda? Horrified about child soldiers? Maybe you should start a thread.

 

[DaisyDay]

Did you bother to read my post, or did you just light your hair on fire?

For your safety, I strongly recommend you switch to a non-flammable hair gel before reading any more of my posts. Get a grip.

Glad the singed hair look came back into fashion for you.

What's with you accusing others of having flaming heads? Seems a weird obsession.

 

[Philip_B]

The ancient struggle of humankind is to find a place where we may be at home. Israelis and Palestinians are to a large extent Semitic people and to an even greater extent they are all human. The differences between an Israeli and a Palestinian are essentially about tribe belonging and labels. They are hard to determine in battle, and bullets do not distinguish.

One of the things that worries me about this thread is the failure to see humanity, without the need to take sides. In the end it is not about right and wrong, but rather what can we do to end this madness.

Lord, in the darkness, let your light shine.

 

[Vanellus]

Rare video report from western news media without the usual IDF control and censorship:

I don't think this is Pallywood.

 

[rjs330]

...more details:

The three hostages mistakenly killed by Israeli forces in Gaza were carrying a makeshift white flag when a soldier who felt threatened opened fire, a senior Israeli military official said Saturday, adding that an investigation was underway.

They were “all without shirts” and carried “a stick with a white cloth on it,” emerging “tens of meters” from an Israeli military position, the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity in line with the rules of the briefing.
The official said a soldier felt threatened and opened fire. Two of the hostages were killed immediately while the third was injured and ran back to a building, he said. A cry for help was heard in Hebrew and the battalion commander issued an order to cease-fire but there was “another burst of fire” and the third hostage was killed, he said.

“This was against our rules of engagement,” the official said, adding that the preliminary investigation was ongoing at the “highest level.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/16/israel-gaza-war-hamas-news-updates/#link-EUASA75IDJAAFBTHB65ALH4N5M

I imagine that there will be some repercussions from this. As we all know from history not every soldier does the right thing 100% of the time. They are humans like everyone else and they make serious mistakes like shooting unarmed people in a theater of war. Should they be let off? No. It's still a tragic event and the justice system should have its say. And it probably will.

 

[rjs330]

You don't know if the "data is blatanly dishonest".
Third parties such as the US State Department believe the casulaty figures are greater given the context of ariel bombing.
It's simply a fact that thousand of non-combatants are dying at a much higher rate than in similar conflicts.

Secondly, on one hand you say the data is dishonest, and then turne around imply 70% those supporting Hamas are not inocents (and presumably are fair targets in your mind).

Is that your perspective?

Post choice of words on my part. The data is the data. Whether its accurate or not remains to be seen. It's what is said about the data that's dishonest and the rest of my post explains that.

 

[rjs330]

Wow, I guess I have a new answer when someone asks why Hamas doesn't just surrender.

Yup that does create a conundrum. But all the leaders have to do is make a few phone calls and offer surrender. That's pretty much all it would take.