Islam doesn't condone terror

[mandyangel]

No its just that 99.9% of the people who committ terror are Islamic. :

 

[Ayersy]

Murder is very easy to define: the illegal and/or immoral killing of a person.

And the 6th Commandment (5th if you're Catholic) makes it very clear: Thou shalt not murder.

It is an absolute standard, and you will be judged by God if you decide to ignore it.

Muslims who kill people who do not subscribe to Islam, or who embrace another faith, or a host of other transgressions mentioned in the Qur'an, are committing murder.

.

When is it illegal or immoral? Is it immoral if you kill someone in self-defence?

It's all very well saying that murder is killing somebody in a way which is immoral, or illegal, but the laws are blurry in certain situations.

Apparently under certain laws in certain places, it's alright to kill people as a punishment for certain things, which would not be allowed in other places. If it's as "absolute" as you claim, how comes it's not the same all over the world?

There is no absolute standard and no, I will not be judged by God.

The definition of murder is easy, but judging when a killing is unlawful or not is far more difficult.

 

[plenary]

"We need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism." David Cameron.

Last week the Community Security Trust, the body that monitors antisemitic incidents, published its annual report, showing that the figures for 2010 were the second highest since record-keeping began. Jews especially in London and Manchester have found themselves attacked on their way to and from synagogue, or abused by passers-by. Jewish students feel themselves so intimidated on campuses throughout the country that last week they were in Westminster lobbying their MPs, something I cannot recall happening before.

And what will happen to Jewish minorities now, will also happen, when and if other groups would become the minority..

And it's a great shame, that the majorities are not fighting for the rights of the minorities such as the Jews..

There is absolutely no reason, whatsoever, to think that Muslims will not oppress, harass and murder minorities... Because that's what they do, everywhere they go... And there is no reason, that they will stop doing that, as they have been doing it from the bitter beginning.

 

[FRM48]

What about the murder committed by non-Muslims, Christians included? Do you condemn them? Do you condemn the many illegal wars that the US has fought? Or do these 'standards' apply only to Muslims?

I hope your Not including WWII,my uncles fought in WWII to help the Europeans defeat Hitler.Hmmm maybe you think all war is unjust.

 

[b&wpac7]

Hmmm maybe you think all war is unjust.

I would say that war is unjust but it is necessary at times.

 

[plenary]

I would say that war is unjust but it is necessary at times.

There are three types of humans walking the earth... Who have chosen God (Called children of God), people who have chosen the devil or satan (called children of the devil) and those who haven't chosen at all... (But are in the world, and as such, follow after the world...)

And the ones who only love their own and want to rule over others, they are the ones who create the wars on this earth.... And Islam has all the qualifications, because it does not value human life...

And history has shown, that is is of no use bargaining with the devil... And that is the reason of the existence of wars, which all stem from hatred.... (and from reaction to injustice and hatred)...

 

[simonpeter]

What about the times in which the USA saved the world, like in the Second World War??

Etc. etc.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. You have your justification, and they have theirs. We cannot expect others to be moral when we aren't moral ourselves.

 

[plenary]

Etc. etc.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. You have your justification, and they have theirs. We cannot expect others to be moral when we aren't moral ourselves.

The Americans fought on behalf of Europe against the oppressor... And we in Europe are still grateful... No if's, but's, and's, or whatever...
And we haven't forgotten the ones who laid their lives down for us....



It's far easier to destroy or criticize than to build op or create...
And the only one who doesn't make errors of mistakes, is the one who does nothing... But doing nothing when evil works, is far more evil, than at least trying to do good...

 

[Servant of Jesus]

What about the murder committed by non-Muslims, Christians included? Do you condemn them? Do you condemn the many illegal wars that the US has fought? Or do these 'standards' apply only to Muslims?

Of course- like I said- murder is murder- no matter who commits it.

But remember- the title of this thread is "Islam doesn't condone terror", so we are discussing murder in the context of Islam- and both many verses in the Qur'an, and the actions of those who claim to be Muslims, show that this statement is patently false. So far, the professed Muslims allowed to participate on this Christian Web site have not been able to refute the assertion that Islam is a religion of violence- which is why they keep trying to confuse and deflect from the issue.

 

[b&wpac7]

There are three types of humans walking the earth... Who have chosen God (Called children of God), people who have chosen the devil or satan (called children of the devil) and those who haven't chosen at all... (But are in the world, and as such, follow after the world...)

Since Satan is not some sort of antagonist of God in my beliefs, I obviously do not see it that way. People have the potential for good or for evil and it is up to them how they exercise their free will. I do my best to follow the moral teachings that are given in Judaism which are derived from the scriptures but it is possible to be a moral and just person without following those exactly. There is overlap to be sure, but there are moral atheists and moral Muslims.

 

[plenary]

Since Satan is not some sort of antagonist of God in my beliefs, I obviously do not see it that way. People have the potential for good or for evil and it is up to them how they exercise their free will. I do my best to follow the moral teachings that are given in Judaism which are derived from the scriptures but it is possible to be a moral and just person without following those exactly. There is overlap to be sure, but there are moral atheists and moral Muslims.

The problems with the Muslims does not lie with the people themselves, but with Islamic doctrine.....

And regarding the devil and satan... The devil stands for the love of self, while satan stands for the love of the world... (According to some prophetic texts, which I value greatly)....
And out of these two loves, which are really types of hatred, stems all evil... (because loving the world means hating God and loving ones-self in to great measure, means egoism and the love to rule. And all of these, are the hellish love...)


Islam demands blind faith, without reason... And as such, there is no hope, that the islamic God, resembles the real God of the universe... Because one can find God not by blind submission, but only by Love.. Because God is Love... And likeness makes for unity.

 

[b&wpac7]

And regarding the devil and satan... The devil stands for the love of self, while satan stands for the love of the world... (According to some prophetic texts, which I value greatly)....
And out of these two loves, which are really types of hatred, stems all evil...

I have asked you before to define these terms and did not get those. What do you mean by love of self and love of the world? I assume you mean selfishness and something like immorality?

If you want to make it some sort of metaphor for those things, that's fine. We don't believe that HaSatan is evil. As an angel, he can only do God's will. Angels do not have free will.

 

[plenary]

I have asked you before to define these terms and did not get those. What do you mean by love of self and love of the world? I assume you mean selfishness and something like immorality?

Those are the antagonists of the highest loves... Everything has it's counterpart...

The highest loves of Christianity are these:
1. Love of God with whole heart, mind and soul
2. Love of the neighbor as one loves himself...

This is the highest law, of which all the true prophets laws are derived...

But the creation means that there also is a counterpart... With regard to the things of God, there is the World with the workings of the world, which are at war with the things of God... (and thereby agains God Himself)
With regard to the second part, the love for the neighbor, the counterpart is the love of self... Which in to much of measure means absence of love for the neighbor...

And the governing principle is: Likeness make for unity... Which is one of the governing principles of the heavens. (and hells)

 

[b&wpac7]

The highest loves of Christianity are these:
1. Love of God with whole heart, mind and soul
2. Love of the neighbor as one loves himself...

I would say that Judaism holds these as very important. The first one is the Shema and the second one is one that Hillel said was the whole of the Law but in other words (that which is hateful to you...), with the rest being commentary. If that sounds somewhat familiar, keep in mind that Hillel lived 100 years before the birth of Jesus.

But the creation means that there also is a counterpart... With regard to the things of God, there is the World with the workings of the world, which are at war with the things of God... (and thereby agains God Himself)
With regard to the second part, the love for the neighbor, the counterpart is the love of self... Which in to much of measure means absence of love for the neighbor...

I don't understand this world being at war with God business. I understand selfishness though.

 

[Rationalt]

Jesus.

I don't understand this world being at war with God business. I understand selfishness though.

Like genetic engineering taking on a role beyond what God has given to us as His creation.

That quote is not Mine, Btw .

 

[b&wpac7]

Like genetic engineering taking on a role beyond what God has given to us as His creation.

If all knowledge comes from God, our understanding of genetic engineering also comes from God. Had God not wished for it to be accessible, it would simply not be so.

 

[SanFrank]

A year later and the same people are still debating the same issues? HA, HA, HA. Oh Man!
The moderate muslims on this forum are disingenuous and laughable! They can't dissolve themselves from islam nor can they accept christianity.

The events in the middle east PROVE that islam cannot sustain itself. The Bible tells of brothers killing brothers and that is what we see between sunni and sunni, sunni and shiite, shiite and shiite. Everyone is killing everyone, one belongs to al qaeda, another to alqaeda of Saudi Arabia, another to muslim brotherhood, another to hamas, another to this faction, this faction, that faction, every faction kiling eachother.

The desire is democracy but that is FAR from reality. NEVER will there be democracy in the arab world. Proof? Iraq, it has failed miserably.
Democracy is based on Liberty, Truth, Respect, all Christian ideals. It conflicts with Islam. The word Liberty is not found in the quran or hadith.

REDICULOUS! Islam is the embarrassmeent of the human race!

 

[plenary]

A year later and the same people are still debating the same issues? HA, HA, HA. Oh Man!
The moderate muslims on this forum are disingenuous and laughable! They can't dissolve themselves from islam nor can they accept christianity.

The events in the middle east PROVE that islam cannot sustain itself. The Bible tells of brothers killing brothers and that is what we see between sunni and sunni, sunni and shiite, shiite and shiite. Everyone is killing everyone, one belongs to al qaeda, another to alqaeda of Saudi Arabia, another to muslim brotherhood, another to hamas, another to this faction, this faction, that faction, every faction kiling eachother.

The desire is democracy but that is FAR from reality. NEVER will there be democracy in the arab world. Proof? Iraq, it has failed miserably.
Democracy is based on Liberty, Truth, Respect, all Christian ideals. It conflicts with Islam. The word Liberty is not found in the quran or hadith.

REDICULOUS! Islam is the embarrassmeent of the human race!

The fruits of Islam are death, mutilation and destruction... It is one of the great human tragedies. God save us all.....

 

[Robban]

The problems with the Muslims does not lie with the people themselves, but with Islamic doctrine.....

And regarding the devil and satan... The devil stands for the love of self, while satan stands for the love of the world... (According to some prophetic texts, which I value greatly)....
And out of these two loves, which are really types of hatred, stems all evil... (because loving the world means hating God and loving ones-self in to great measure, means egoism and the love to rule. And all of these, are the hellish love...)


Islam demands blind faith, without reason... And as such, there is no hope, that the islamic God, resembles the real God of the universe... Because one can find God not by blind submission, but only by Love.. Because God is Love... And likeness makes for unity.

What exactly do you put into the word "world"?

 

[plenary]

What exactly do you put into the word "world"?

The properties of the world are related to the works of the flesh... And the Godly things are related to the spiritual things... They are both factors in our existance, which are needed, for a human to become a Child of God... For humans have to learn to be like a child of God, which means to be an image of God... (Which is the calling of humanity..) (Be ye perfect, as you Father in heaven is perfect)

Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Galatians 5:
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.