Islam doesn't condone terror

[Montalban]

Oh, I'm pretty sure we'd be in deep doo-doo if the terrorists got their way. Haha.

Apostacy is still punishable by death over in alot of Middle Eastern countries.

Alot of atheists over there have to remain "in the closet", so to speak.

There's no connection between these statements.

Atheists aren't necessarily apostates.

 

[FRM48]

You're just basically saying "it is, because it is.", the only difference is I'm merely explaining that things change through time.

I'm saying WE CONSIDER it wrong now, because WE think differently nowadays. There is no right, or wrong. Just differences in thinking, throughout time. I don't understand what you're not getting about this.

I can't explain it any other way.

At any rate, it doesn't really matter. This thread isn't about the age of women/girls that Mohammad had relations with. It's about Islam and terrorism.

If a terrorist murdered your whole family would he be right to do so?Or is it wrong to murder?

 

[Robban]

Perhaps you should plan your vacation this year to, let's say, Rosengard??


I am wondering, what people will say, when Europe does become a second Middle east... And non-muslims are second-class citizens...

IT ALREADY HAS! Charity begins at home, but when you get politicians who want to play the big shot and let in more, than funds will allow, there are going to be problems.

 

[Ayersy]

There's no connection between these statements.

Atheists aren't necessarily apostates.

There is a connection, but I wasn't implying that all apostates are atheists.

Muslims who become atheists, are considered apostates, though.

 

[Ayersy]

If a terrorist murdered your whole family would he be right to do so?Or is it wrong to murder?

As humans, we consider murder to be wrong (Well, most of the time. Evidently, some people consider it to be okay to murder people for insulting one of their prophets), but that doesn't make it wrong in of itself. The universe won't change upon the murder of my family.

So, to answer your question. No, it wouldn't be right to do so, and we humans do consider murder to be wrong.

What if God had told him to murder my family? Would you consider that to be wrong?

When is it okay to kill someone? Is it okay to kill in self-defense? Revenge? For God? For money? For love? For nothing? To save lives?

Murder isn't as easy to define as alot of people think it is. So really, there is no right or wrong.

 

[Montalban]

There is a connection, but I wasn't implying that all apostates are atheists.

Muslims who become atheists, are considered apostates, though.

Any who leave Islam are Apsostasy regardless of whether they become atheists, Christians, etc.

I don't know why you just mentioned atheists.

 

[Montalban]

As humans,

As opposed to those Vulcans reading this?

we consider murder to be wrong (Well, most of the time. Evidently, some people consider it to be okay to murder people for insulting one of their prophets), but that doesn't make it wrong in of itself. The universe won't change upon the murder of my family.

Some consider it wrong. Some don't. Thanks for the truism

So, to answer your question. No, it wouldn't be right to do so, and we humans do consider murder to be wrong.

You've not shown that it wouldn't be right. You've said some think it is right, some think it's wrong. What makes it wrong hasn't been shown.

What if God had told him to murder my family? Would you consider that to be wrong?

Try and stick to one debate

Murder isn't as easy to define as alot of people think it is. So really, there is no right or wrong.

And now it's not right or wrong?

What a confused post you've made

 

[Ayersy]

Any who leave Islam are Apsostasy regardless of whether they become atheists, Christians, etc.

I don't know why you just mentioned atheists.

I know that. I was replying to a post which mentioned non-believers, that was all. I wasn't specifying JUST atheists.

 

[Ayersy]

As opposed to those Vulcans reading this?

Some consider it wrong. Some don't. Thanks for the truism

You've not shown that it wouldn't be right. You've said some think it is right, some think it's wrong. What makes it wrong hasn't been shown.

Try and stick to one debate


And now it's not right or wrong?

What a confused post you've made

I've been saying ALL ALONG, that it's not right or wrong. I'm simply saying that MOST PEOPLE consider it to be wrong. It depends on the circumstances. This is why I'm saying it ISN'T wrong, but that doesn't make it right.

One man may think that killing somebody in self-defense is wrong. Another man may think it's fine. Can you say which person is right, or wrong? The same thing applies to death sentences for apostates. You and I may find it morally wrong, but other people find it justified. Who is right, and who is wrong?

 

[Montalban]

No. You said it was wrong.

You said "No, it wouldn't be right to do so, and we humans do consider murder to be wrong"

Then in the same post you contradicted yourself with "So really, there is no right or wrong."

Why you have to specify 'we humans' - which is redundant, is a mystery

Now you repeat your truism that some find it right, some find it wrong.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Read this.

Though I don't agree with their conclusions I find that they raise some interesting points that you need to note, such as why would Jesus only order two swords to be bought?

Jesus was not expecting the Roman soldiers to be in the picture? When he realised Judas brought the Romans, he knew he was outnumbered and further violence would only bring death to a small band of religious group. Hence, those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

The whole episode does not suggest that using violence for self-defence is wrong. Of course, as your link noted, using and purchasing swords contradict the non-violence and being meek teachings of Jesus himself.

I think it's also interesting to note that the Roman authorities would not have taken kindly to Jews taking the law into their own hands.

I agree. In fact, the bible writers seemed to exonerate the Romans from any part in the 'death' of Christ.

I think if Jesus had known they were being chased by Roman soldiers, Jesus would not told his disciples to buy swords.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Jesus didn't mean literal swords... The Word of God also is compared to a sword...

I love how some Christians argue over 'swords'. Jesus asked his followers to purchase some non-literal swords?

 

[Montalban]

Jesus was not expecting the Roman soldiers to be in the picture?

What do you think would happen if two guys with swords took on trained soldiers? However....

When he realised Judas brought the Romans, he knew he was outnumbered and further violence would only bring death to a small band of religious group. Hence, those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

I don't believe Judas brought any Romans. So Jesus armed his followers (two of them) exepecting trained soldiers who didn't turn up and he thought that they'd all be killed. That's pretty interesting speculation of yours.

So Jesus plans for professional soldiers to come, and they don't, in fact 'temple soldiers' come who would be less well trained Jesus thought that it was best to not resist - and knowing he'd be condemned to death he lay down his life (although according to you Moslems didn't die) to save a movement?

He'd predicted what would happen to him, yet only took 11 with him.

 

[Islam_mulia]

What do you think would happen if two guys with swords took on trained soldiers? However....

The bible says if you have faith, you can lift mountains.

I don't believe Judas brought any Romans. So Jesus armed his followers (two of them) exepecting trained soldiers who didn't turn up and he thought that they'd all be killed. That's pretty interesting speculation of yours.

Jesus did not expect a large number of 'enemies'. Two swords would be enough manned by disciples who were willing to die for him. The episode suggests that Jesus miscalculated the advance of the enemy.

btw, why purchase swords in the first place?

So Jesus plans for professional soldiers to come, and they don't, in fact 'temple soldiers' come who would be less well trained Jesus thought that it was best to not resist - and knowing he'd be condemned to death he lay down his life (although according to you Moslems didn't die) to save a movement?.

They were after Jesus, not the disciples. The disciples have been advised to preach the gospels to the Jews (without him). A fight there would kill him and the disciples and end the movement there. Surrender was the best option, knowing the movement could still continue with the disciples.

He'd predicted what would happen to him, yet only took 11 with him.

Again, he miscalculates. He was human after all. I am not sure he could gather more men who trusted him with their lives.

 

[Montalban]

The bible says if you have faith, you can lift mountains.

Actually it says if you have the faith the size of a mustard seed, you can lift mountains.

I have faith, but not that much

Jesus did not expect a large number of 'enemies'. Two swords would be enough manned by disciples who were willing to die for him. The episode suggests that Jesus miscalculated the advance of the enemy.

It doesn't suggest that at all. You suggest this based on speculating that there were Romans there and there weren't and that he only armed two guys for trouble but then ignoring everything else, including the fact that Jesus healed a man who's ear was taken, and that he'd predicted he'd go (ignoring also his praying in the garden on this) and that he'd limited those who came with him, and that he wanted to go

But I always enjoy your wild speculations

 

[FRM48]

As humans, we consider murder to be wrong (Well, most of the time. Evidently, some people consider it to be okay to murder people for insulting one of their prophets), but that doesn't make it wrong in of itself. The universe won't change upon the murder of my family.

So, to answer your question. No, it wouldn't be right to do so, and we humans do consider murder to be wrong.

What if God had told him to murder my family? Would you consider that to be wrong?

When is it okay to kill someone? Is it okay to kill in self-defense? Revenge? For God? For money? For love? For nothing? To save lives?

Murder isn't as easy to define as alot of people think it is. So really, there is no right or wrong.

What your really saying is there is no absolute right or wrong,sorry I can't accept that.That is moral relativism.What you do with the knowledge of Christ effects your eternal destiny.Jesus was crucified for your sin and mine,I accepted him will you?He is the absolute right.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

As humans, we consider murder to be wrong (Well, most of the time. Evidently, some people consider it to be okay to murder people for insulting one of their prophets), but that doesn't make it wrong in of itself. The universe won't change upon the murder of my family.

So, to answer your question. No, it wouldn't be right to do so, and we humans do consider murder to be wrong.

What if God had told him to murder my family? Would you consider that to be wrong?

When is it okay to kill someone? Is it okay to kill in self-defense? Revenge? For God? For money? For love? For nothing? To save lives?

Murder isn't as easy to define as alot of people think it is. So really, there is no right or wrong.

Murder is very easy to define: the illegal and/or immoral killing of a person.

And the 6th Commandment (5th if you're Catholic) makes it very clear: Thou shalt not murder.

It is an absolute standard, and you will be judged by God if you decide to ignore it.

Muslims who kill people who do not subscribe to Islam, or who embrace another faith, or a host of other transgressions mentioned in the Qur'an, are committing murder.

.

 

[simonpeter]

Murder is very easy to define: the illegal and/or immoral killing of a person.

And the 6th Commandment (5th if you're Catholic) makes it very clear: Thou shalt not murder.

It is an absolute standard, and you will be judged by God if you decide to ignore it.

Muslims who kill people who do not subscribe to Islam, or who embrace another faith, or a host of other transgressions mentioned in the Qur'an, are committing murder.

.

What about the murder committed by non-Muslims, Christians included? Do you condemn them? Do you condemn the many illegal wars that the US has fought? Or do these 'standards' apply only to Muslims?

 

[plenary]

What about the murder committed by non-Muslims, Christians included? Do you condemn them? Do you condemn the many illegal wars that the US has fought? Or do these 'standards' apply only to Muslims?

What about the times in which the USA saved the world, like in the Second World War?? Americans gave their lives for the Europeans... NO-ONE should EVER forget that... At least the Europeans shouldn't... I myself are thankful they helped us...
And don't forget that the Muslims fought side by side with the Nazi's.... Yes, the legacy of the dictator Muhammad is a great legacy for sure...
The only reason for the existence of Islam today, is oppression, murder and the penalty of death to apostates.. Don't you agree, simonpeter?
And the fearful readily submit...

And yes, people make mistakes, so also the USA... Most of the countries of the earth have commited atrocities...
And every human life is precious... NON excluded...But not to Islam...

YouTube - Busted - Orlando Mosque Finances Hamas Fundraiser


The question the west (and major other parts of the world) have to answer is, do we want to live under Sharia Law... Because that is exactly what the Muslim community is trying to force upon the rest of the World, as that is dictated, by the dictator of Islam....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2681186/posts

As expected, Muslims across the world have started to lock arms in their quest to impose Shariah Law on all.

And IF sharia was to be forced upon the west, than Christians, would become the oppressed, like they are in the Muslim countries....
But if one compares the criminal posture of Europe towards the Jews, maybe Europe doesn't deserve anything better... Maybe Europe, still needs another lesson in what the price of freedom really is...
The Jews are fleeing Europe but hardly anyone seems to care... They are to busy rejoicing over the Moslim populiation... Imagine, what great advantages Sharia will bring for the non-Muslims.. It will mean total freedom, of oppression under islam... What can be more beautiful?
And Sharia Law, means the end of freedom for non-Muslims.... And one can take that to the bank....

Luckily America seems not as gullible as many of the European nations... Yes, it seems like Europe will have to learn the price of freedom ones more...

I myself think that it will lead to civil war.... Because democracy and Islam curse each-other... And no-one in the western world wants to live under sharia law.... (And many still don't know that they don't want to, but they will find out, sooner or later..)

Sure, one can bully 10.000, 20.000 or 80.000 people... Even as much as 6.000.000 million people, but can you bully 5.000.000.000 people? Time will tell...

 

[plenary]

I love how some Christians argue over 'swords'. Jesus asked his followers to purchase some non-literal swords?

Just like how Muslims keep on repeating that they also think Jesus to be a great prophet, while they disregard everything Jesus taught and only walk after the doctrine of Muhammad?... Which is diametrically opposed to the teachings of Christ...

Jesus didn't talk about literal swords, which is also validated by modern prophecies... Luckily Christianity doesn't have just one prophet....