Islam doesn't condone terror

[Robban]

A tyrant is never a solution... But the "freedom" of the copts and the peace agreement with the Jews will be dis annulled, when the Muslim brotherhood will get to power....
Of course poverty and oppression are never the solution, I agree fully... But Islam is one of the most oppressive philosophies ever invented by man...

Do you think Islam will bring prosperity? Or freedom for the Muslims, let alone non-Muslims? quite on the contrary, because Islam has nothing to do with love, but hatred... Self love and the love for power and rule...


And it's difficult to get rid of a tyrant, but it's even more difficult to get rid of a philosophy, which states that heaven can be acquired by murder....

I understand how you are thinking, or I think I do.
You seem to be worried. Are you sure The Muslim Brotherhood are intressted in taking over? The goal is fair and free elections.
I don,t understand Al Quida or the militant types either, but one thing I find strange is, the term "Moderate" Muslim. Could it be that moderate muslims are true muslims, and the "terror" type are not? Could it be that they just use the religion but have their own agenda? If it is a missinterupretation of the texts, then the rest should cry out loud the fact. Which is what the leaders of the muslim community did in Stockholm a while ago, when some guy blew himself up.

 

[plenary]

I understand how you are thinking, or I think I do.
You seem to be worried. Are you sure The Muslim Brotherhood are intressted in taking over? The goal is fair and free elections.
I don,t understand Al Quida or the militant types either, but one thing I find strange is, the term "Moderate" Muslim. Could it be that moderate muslims are true muslims, and the "terror" type are not? Could it be that they just use the religion but have their own agenda? If it is a missinterupretation of the texts, then the rest should cry out loud the fact. Which is what the leaders of the muslim community did in Stockholm a while ago, when some guy blew himself up.

That their goal is fair and free elections, that may be true.... But the Muslim brotherhood has already indicated that the peace treaty with the Jews, should be abolished... And in case of Iran, people also wanted freedom, but instead, they got oppression.. We should also acknowledge, that the people who have suffered the most by Islam, are the Muslims themselves... Because one who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword... That is a universal rule, of the order of God... That is the reason, why Islam will never lead to peace... Because it cannot... Only when people denounce Islam and embrace the laws of love... (which means to love the neighbor as ones-self..)
Because if one says that he loves God, but he hates his neighbor, that he is a liar and a thief... Because if one loves God, one has to love his neighbor, because real love has a reflective property... One cannot have one, without the other... In essence, they are the same....

About the objections to the bombings, that is true... But it is always the question, what will happen to the non-Muslims, when the Muslims get in the majority.. of which Turkey and Lebanon (as well as other countries) are great examples... Because there aren't that many Christians any more in Turkey (And that is not by virtue of the greatness of Islam, but because of oppression, which is one of the pillars of Islam... Islam means submission, whether it be willingly or by the sword, or by constant harassment and bullying.) And also life for a Christian in lebanon, is getting harder and harder... I think it is like a mathematical limit, where the doctrine of Islam automatically has a limit to 100%....
Turkey has thrived, because it has been secular for a portion, but there is also a trend, that this is changing, which is also the case with Tunisia and probably also with Egypt.. Which will bring more poverty and more problems. As also tourism will suffer and also the money from the USA will cease, when Islam will take over... And probably international trade will also suffer....

And that is the real problem, Islam is totalitarian... Totalitarian with a base in self-love, egoism and the power to rule... And that combined with the love for the world, constitutes the whole of the hells... (Which is Christian doctrine.)
That, with the promise of heaven, and the death penalty for apostates (which Muslims are ready to implement, even for family members) constitutes the real problem of Islam.

Some countries that are considered to be moderate (Egypt in this example), as exposed in the short clip I pasted a couple of messages before, teach their children that the Jews are disgusting....
What do you think will come from that?

Matthew 26:52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Maybe Muslims should listen to Jesus, instead of to Muhammad.....At least if they want peace...

 

[AskTheFamily]

Do you have a source to this?

Factbox: Egyptians want more Islam in politics: poll | Reuters

It doesn't say anything about Al-Qaeda and BenLaden, so where did you get that poll from?

 

[Robban]

That their goal is fair and free elections, that may be true.... But the Muslim brotherhood has already indicated that the peace treaty with the Jews, should be abolished... And in case of Iran, people also wanted freedom, but instead, they got oppression.. We should also acknowledge, that the people who have suffered the most by Islam, are the Muslims themselves... Because one who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword... That is a universal rule, of the order of God... That is the reason, why Islam will never lead to peace... Because it cannot... Only when people denounce Islam and embrace the laws of love... (which means to love the neighbor as ones-self..)
Because if one says that he loves God, but he hates his neighbor, that he is a liar and a thief... Because if one loves God, one has to love his neighbor, because real love has a reflective property... One cannot have one, without the other... In essence, they are the same....

About the objections to the bombings, that is true... But it is always the question, what will happen to the non-Muslims, when the Muslims get in the majority.. of which Turkey and Lebanon (as well as other countries) are great examples... Because there aren't that many Christians any more in Turkey (And that is not by virtue of the greatness of Islam, but because of oppression, which is one of the pillars of Islam... Islam means submission, whether it be willingly or by the sword, or by constant harassment and bullying.) And also life for a Christian in lebanon, is getting harder and harder... I think it is like a mathematical limit, where the doctrine of Islam automatically has a limit to 100%....
Turkey has thrived, because it has been secular for a portion, but there is also a trend, that this is changing, which is also the case with Tunisia and probably also with Egypt.. Which will bring more poverty and more problems. As also tourism will suffer and also the money from the USA will cease, when Islam will take over... And probably international trade will also suffer....

And that is the real problem, Islam is totalitarian... Totalitarian with a base in self-love, egoism and the power to rule... And that combined with the love for the world, constitutes the whole of the hells... (Which is Christian doctrine.)
That, with the promise of heaven, and the death penalty for apostates (which Muslims are ready to implement, even for family members) constitutes the real problem of Islam.

Some countries that are considered to be moderate (Egypt in this example), as exposed in the short clip I pasted a couple of messages before, teach their children that the Jews are disgusting....

Well, it doesn,t look like it is going to go away.
But saying as many do, that, "God loves you", is futile and does not help anyone, so maybe God is simply fed up with Christianity.

 

[plenary]

It doesn't say anything about Al-Qaeda and BenLaden, so where did you get that poll from?

Second page.... It has two tab-pages...

I will paste the second page here, but you can also click on the tab on the link that I posted...

PARIS | Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:28pm EST

-- What do you think of al Qaeda? 20 percent were favorable.
-- Do you have confidence in Osama bin Laden? 19 percent said "some" or "a lot," 73 percent said "not much" or "none." (NOTE: Confidence in bin Laden has fallen from 27 percent in 2006).
ON TRADITIONAL MUSLIM PRACTICES
-- Should men and women be segregated in the workplace? 54 percent said "yes" and 44 percent "no."
-- Should adulterers be stoned? 82 percent said "yes."
-- Should apostates from Islam face the death penalty? 84 percent said "yes."
-- Should thieves be flogged or have their hands cut off? 77 percent said "yes."
ON DEMOCRACY
-- Is democracy preferable to any other kind of government? 59 percent said "yes."
-- Can a non-democratic system be preferable in certain circumstances? 22 percent said "yes."
-- Is it irrelevant to you what kind of government you have? 16 percent said "yes."
(Compiled by Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor)

 

[plenary]

Well, it doesn,t look like it is going to go away.

Nope... And it doesn't look like peace will last long on earth... And probably it will not take very long for Europe to have another war of it's own...

Because some take freedom for granted and think that by sticking their heads in the sand, problems will vanish...

But saying as many do, that, "God loves you", is futile and does not help anyone, so maybe God is simply fed up with Christianity.

The influence of God isn't measurable.... But Christian doctrine says that there is a war going on, in the spiritual realm... And as such, we are dependent on God....

But alas, as man has a will of his own, he can also choose to try to handle everything himself, which is one of the reasons, who the politics of today are crooked, because understanding evil, is important in fighting evil... And pretending like evil does not exist (or pretending that pointing to evil IS evil), does not add to the resolving of problems in the world.

 

[Montalban]

I'm saying it is because modern society says it is. It's as simple as that. We live in a society nowadays where it is frowned upon. There is no other reason besides that.

Which is simply to say it is, because it is, because it is.

You're the one saying it's bad because it simply is bad, and using that as ammunition against Muhammad, without taking into account the changes in morality that occur through the ages.

What he did was wrong then and is always wrong.

What he did then is wrong now, and still being advocated now because Moslems don't see a 'use-by date' for his example of morality.

 

[Montalban]

9 years old is acceptable?Quit distorting the reality of the facts.at 9 years old the child was still playing with dolls.To take a child as a bride who is that young is perversion.You can whitewash any way you want but in the end it's still perversion.

One of their great arguments is "No one objected". The problem with those who objected to the 'prophet' is that they ended up dead.

 

[FRM48]

One of their great arguments is "No one objected". The problem with those who objected to the 'prophet' is that they ended up dead.

Well I'm objecting now,for those who were silenced during Mohammed's time on this earth.

 

[Robban]

Second page.... It has two tab-pages...

I will paste the second page here, but you can also click on the tab on the link that I posted...

PARIS | Wed Feb 2, 2011 1:28pm EST

-- What do you think of al Qaeda? 20 percent were favorable.
-- Do you have confidence in Osama bin Laden? 19 percent said "some" or "a lot," 73 percent said "not much" or "none." (NOTE: Confidence in bin Laden has fallen from 27 percent in 2006).
ON TRADITIONAL MUSLIM PRACTICES
-- Should men and women be segregated in the workplace? 54 percent said "yes" and 44 percent "no."
-- Should adulterers be stoned? 82 percent said "yes."
-- Should apostates from Islam face the death penalty? 84 percent said "yes."
-- Should thieves be flogged or have their hands cut off? 77 percent said "yes."
ON DEMOCRACY
-- Is democracy preferable to any other kind of government? 59 percent said "yes."
-- Can a non-democratic system be preferable in certain circumstances? 22 percent said "yes."
-- Is it irrelevant to you what kind of government you have? 16 percent said "yes."
(Compiled by Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor)

How much confidence do you have in this poll?
I mean do you rely on it to be sound?
I find it difficult to believe, unless those who were asked were robots who did not have the capacity to think for themselves, I just cannot accept that it is true. Well there you go I suppose, nowadays it,s amazing what a poll can do.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Matthew 26:52 “Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Read that in proper context. Jesus said that only when he and his followers (a small band) were surrounded by the Roman soldiers.
Jesus was NOT against using swords for self-defense.

 

[FRM48]

Read that in proper context. Jesus said that only when he and his followers (a small band) were surrounded by the Roman soldiers.
Jesus was NOT against using swords for self-defense.

Um,Jesus didn't stop the one who drew the sword because the romans had them surrounded.He did it for the hour of his arrest was at hand.Then came the mocking and the scourging,Then his crucifixion and resurrection.

 

[b&wpac7]

Um,Jesus didn't stop the one who drew the sword because the romans had them surrounded.He did it for the hour of his arrest was at hand.Then came the mocking and the scourging,Then his crucifixion and resurrection.

I believe he's taking a critical approach to the scene and suggesting a motivation that would not be in line with the Christological one. It's very similar to an approach I have seen many others, including myself on occasion, take. It is the same way you might hear Jews say that Jesus was a rabbi with some strange views that got executed by the Romans for speaking too often about his kingdom coming.

Basically, he's saying that the reason Jesus said not to resist is that to resist would have killed all the followers right then and there and the movement would have died.

 

[Montalban]

Read that in proper context. Jesus said that only when he and his followers (a small band) were surrounded by the Roman soldiers.
Jesus was NOT against using swords for self-defense.

What commentary are you basing your views on?

 

[Islam_mulia]

What commentary are you basing your views on?

Commentary by Islam_Mulia.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Um,Jesus didn't stop the one who drew the sword because the romans had them surrounded.He did it for the hour of his arrest was at hand.Then came the mocking and the scourging,Then his crucifixion and resurrection.

He did instruct some of his followers to purchase swords. The question is why would the followers bring swords? How would this be against Jesus' teachings to love your enemies, to be meek and to give your right cheek?

 

[Islam_mulia]

One of their great arguments is "No one objected". The problem with those who objected to the 'prophet' is that they ended up dead.

The topic at hand is the solemnisation of marriage of Muhammad (pbuh) with Aisha, which the hadith mentioned when Aisha was 9 years old.

If the marriage was considered 'wrong', at that time, we would have the pagan Quraish using that as a good reason for them to discredit the Prophet. They have not just objected, but even fight the Prophet and the Muslims over other issues, and the marriage could have been used by the Quraysh to discredit the Prophet, if indeed the marriage was wrong. That did not happen.

The Jews and the Christians did not comment on the marriage as wrong, sinful or against any rule. You are familiar with John of Damascus, who wrote many things against Muhammad (pbuh) around that time. John and the Byzantines did not make the marriage an issue.
The Byzantines were a major force at that time. We should have read their disapproval of Muhammad (pbuh) marrying a 9 year old bride, and I am sure the great Byzantine Empire would not be afraid of writing such.

 

[plenary]

How much confidence do you have in this poll?
I mean do you rely on it to be sound?
I find it difficult to believe, unless those who were asked were robots who did not have the capacity to think for themselves, I just cannot accept that it is true. Well there you go I suppose, nowadays it,s amazing what a poll can do.

It's just another indication, nothing more, nothing less...

Calling the jews "disgusting" in a childrens program is all that has to be registered...

 

[plenary]

He did instruct some of his followers to purchase swords. The question is why would the followers bring swords? How would this be against Jesus' teachings to love your enemies, to be meek and to give your right cheek?

Jesus didn't mean literal swords... The Word of God also is compared to a sword...

Ephesians 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

And what about the modern prophets. What's your excuse for the denial of the existence of the gift of prophecy nowadays? Muhammad is right?



Ever wondered why Muslims oppress and kill about every denomination there is on earth including their own?? If one would recognize the sayings of Christ for what they are, one would have the answer... He who lives by the sword, shall die by the sword...
Love between the Muslims is not really love, what can easily be seen by the fact that they are butchering each other...

And here's the deal, there will never be peace among Muslims... Never... Because they do not live in the ways of God, because if they would, they would place LOVE on top of their list.. Because God is Love...

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

But of course, John didn't know what he was talking about, right??
If one says "I know God" and loveth not, is a liar...
Love breeds love and hatred breeds hatred...

But don't take my word for it, go ahead, follow after Jihad, see where it leads you....
But remember, the devil does not love the ones who walk in his ways and he deceives the ones who do.....

Qur'an 5:41 "Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them."

Which demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the basic properties of God...
A God who tortures? Come one man..... Muhammad didn't have a first clue about the real meaning of the hell-fire... Because the hell-fire means two things, first the absence of spiritual water and secondly retaliation (and fear thereof) of breaking the order of God...
And these kind of texts demonstrate the real danger of Islam... Because meekness, is one of the properties of God, which has no place in Islam...

 

[Montalban]

Commentary by Islam_Mulia.

First time you've admitted a straw-man, what's happening?