Islam doesn't condone terror

[Servant of Jesus]

Wow, tough crowd.

What's the alternative, though? Aside from leading by example, showing them that we can all live side by side, what else can we do?

Follow the example of Jesus. He spoke the truth, but never sinned; He loved us- even though at times it was tough love.

But most important, He offers us hope- a way to be reconciled with God, despite our sins; and a way to be assured of a place in Heaven with God after we die.

.

 

[Ayersy]

Follow the example of Jesus. He spoke the truth, but never sinned; He loved us- even though at times it was tough love.

But most important, He offers us hope- a way to be reconciled with God, despite our sins; and a way to be assured of a place in Heaven with God after we die.

.

Well, I don't believe in sin, obviously, so I can't go with that. I think that the teachings of Jesus are worth listening to, simply because I believe in treating other people with respect. The emotional magic mumbo-jumbo that goes along with it, I don't care about. It means nothing to me.

I just want people not to treat each other like crap, that's all.

All they have to do is look at their holy books and think "Wait a minute! Alot of this stuff... doesn't really fit in with modern society. Maybe we shouldn't take it all so literally.", it's really not that difficult.

We don't need 10 commandments to tell us not to be kill each other or take each other's stuff. If anybody does have to rely on an ancient book for their morals, they're an idiot.

Common sense is what I preach. Never done me any harm.

 

[b&wpac7]

We don't need 10 commandments to tell us not to be kill each other or take each other's stuff. If anybody does have to rely on an ancient book for their morals, they're an idiot.

There is a lot of stuff in my ancient book that is plain good advice. Helping an enemy, loving your neighbor, striving for peace in the community. Combine that with 3000 years of tradition that expands on these teachings and I think I get a pretty good framework for how I want to put my morality into action. After all, isn't that the benchmark? You could have the highest moral standard in existence, but if you don't walk the walk what good is it?

Sure, there's stuff in there that doesn't really apply to today (at least on the surface). Also, there's plenty of stuff that does not apply to non-Jews. But don't assume just because it's old that it is useless.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

Well, I don't believe in sin, obviously, so I can't go with that. I think that the teachings of Jesus are worth listening to, simply because I believe in treating other people with respect. The emotional magic mumbo-jumbo that goes along with it, I don't care about. It means nothing to me.

I just want people not to treat each other like crap, that's all.

All they have to do is look at their holy books and think "Wait a minute! Alot of this stuff... doesn't really fit in with modern society. Maybe we shouldn't take it all so literally.", it's really not that difficult.

We don't need 10 commandments to tell us not to be kill each other or take each other's stuff. If anybody does have to rely on an ancient book for their morals, they're an idiot.

Common sense is what I preach. Never done me any harm.

And I completely respect your decision to live your life as you see fit.

The trouble is, I maintain that we human beings are not able, on our own volition, to follow what I maintain are the God-given rules of decent living that are imprinted in our psyche.

So the 6th commandment (or 5th if you are Catholic) says "You shall not murder." I maintain that "murder" is the illegal AND immoral killing of another human being (adding "immoral" allows us to cover the actions of despots and countries who simply pass laws allowing them to kill whoever they want; Libya comes to mind right now).

So I maintain that Islam goes farther than God ever intended in Bible with regard to the 6th Commandment- it allows, or at least is interpreted by many Muslims to mean, that it is O.K. to kill someone because, for example, they won't convert to Islam, or decide to follow another faith.

Hitler and his henchmen were able to somehow compromise their God-given sense of right and wrong, and justify the slaughter of millions of people. Same thing- in their mind, I am sure that they believed that what they were doing was not murder.

So I maintain that us human beings need to have absolute standards, and an absolute judge to convict us, when it comes to deciding what is right or wrong. Call it the fear of God- but when you're a Christian, there is this additional incentive- we call it the Holy Spirit- God within you- tugging at you both when it comes to the little sins of life, and also the big ones, to do the right thing.

And I maintain that God within you is a powerful force that encourages behaviour that is pleasing to God; you not only know better that something is wrong- you also know when you've done something pleasing to God; a good deed, whatever! And the satisfaction that comes from doing those good deeds encourages you to do more and more.

But in Jesus- God who came to earth- we have one more huge benefit: forgiveness of sins IF we repent of our sins, and promise to follow forever more the example of Christ- using His sinless life here on earth as an example of how we are to live our own life.

Try it, you just might like it. At the very least, I guarantee it will give you great peace, serenity, and direction in life.


.

 

[b&wpac7]

But in Jesus- God who came to earth- we have one more huge benefit: forgiveness of sins IF we repent of our sins, and promise to follow forever more the example of Christ- using His sinless life here on earth as an example of how we are to live our own life.

We were promised to be forgiven of sins if we repent as well.

 

[JJWhite]

We were promised to be forgiven of sins if we repent as well.

We were too! How about that?

 

[b&wpac7]

We were too! How about that?

Hey, if the game plan works, right?

 

[JJWhite]

So I maintain that Islam goes farther than God ever intended in Bible with regard to the 6th Commandment- it allows, or at least is interpreted by many Muslims to mean, that it is O.K. to kill someone because, for example, they won't convert to Islam, or decide to follow another faith.

I think you're on to something, man.

I have a brilliant idea. Why doesn't everyone on here who is really passionate about this (and there seem to be quite a few) dedicate the next dozen years or so to the intense study of Arabic, Islamic history, Qur'an, Hadith, and the development of Islamic law throughout the centuries, and then help educate everyone (Muslims and non-Muslims) about the most authentic interpretations... ones that are truest both to the letter of the law as well as the spirit of the law?

 

[Ayersy]

There is a lot of stuff in my ancient book that is plain good advice. Helping an enemy, loving your neighbor, striving for peace in the community. Combine that with 3000 years of tradition that expands on these teachings and I think I get a pretty good framework for how I want to put my morality into action. After all, isn't that the benchmark? You could have the highest moral standard in existence, but if you don't walk the walk what good is it?

Sure, there's stuff in there that doesn't really apply to today (at least on the surface). Also, there's plenty of stuff that does not apply to non-Jews. But don't assume just because it's old that it is useless.

I'm not doubting there's alot of good stuff in there. All holy books have some wisdom in there, once you filter out alot of the rubbish (Leviticus comes to mind).

I see alot of wisdom in the teachings of Jesus, amongst other things, but I never actually NEEDED a book to tell me "Yo, don't steal that guy's stuff. It's bad.", my parents told me that. I learned that if I did stuff which annoyed people, I'd get a punch in the face. Don't need a book to learn that stuff.

Again, common sense is needed, above all else. Killing somebody for their opinion isn't common sense.

This is what I'm getting at. So don't take my previous post to mean I dismiss EVERYTHING holy texts have to say. I think there are good lessons to be learned. Just take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[b&wpac7]

I'm not doubting there's alot of good stuff in there. All holy books have some wisdom in there, once you filter out alot of the rubbish (Leviticus comes to mind).

A lot of those things you call rubbish are just for us anyway (or for when the Temple stood). We don't even want others to try

But take the verse about assisting an enemy if his donkey has fallen. Now, you may laugh and say it doesn't apply to today, but just remove the exact scene and replace it with something else. The idea is that by helping an enemy, you may make a friend or at least remove an enemy. A simple gesture of kindness may be the spark.

Now, my morality doesn't tell me that on its own. I would avoid my enemy or not assist him when he was in some sort of difficult situation. But that verse gives me pause when a situation like that happens.

 

[Ayersy]

And I completely respect your decision to live your life as you see fit.

The trouble is, I maintain that we human beings are not able, on our own volition, to follow what I maintain are the God-given rules of decent living that are imprinted in our psyche.

So the 6th commandment (or 5th if you are Catholic) says "You shall not murder." I maintain that "murder" is the illegal AND immoral killing of another human being (adding "immoral" allows us to cover the actions of despots and countries who simply pass laws allowing them to kill whoever they want; Libya comes to mind right now).

So I maintain that Islam goes farther than God ever intended in Bible with regard to the 6th Commandment- it allows, or at least is interpreted by many Muslims to mean, that it is O.K. to kill someone because, for example, they won't convert to Islam, or decide to follow another faith.

Hitler and his henchmen were able to somehow compromise their God-given sense of right and wrong, and justify the slaughter of millions of people. Same thing- in their mind, I am sure that they believed that what they were doing was not murder.

So I maintain that us human beings need to have absolute standards, and an absolute judge to convict us, when it comes to deciding what is right or wrong. Call it the fear of God- but when you're a Christian, there is this additional incentive- we call it the Holy Spirit- God within you- tugging at you both when it comes to the little sins of life, and also the big ones, to do the right thing.

And I maintain that God within you is a powerful force that encourages behaviour that is pleasing to God; you not only know better that something is wrong- you also know when you've done something pleasing to God; a good deed, whatever! And the satisfaction that comes from doing those good deeds encourages you to do more and more.

But in Jesus- God who came to earth- we have one more huge benefit: forgiveness of sins IF we repent of our sins, and promise to follow forever more the example of Christ- using His sinless life here on earth as an example of how we are to live our own life.

Try it, you just might like it. At the very least, I guarantee it will give you great peace, serenity, and direction in life.


.

A bit late for me trying it. Spent the first 17 years of my life trying it.

The conclusion I've come to now makes far more sense to me, but I'm not here to explain my nihilism.

The problem with absolute morality is that... well, morality isn't absolute. It's always subjective.

One man's murder might be another man's self-defense. Different people act in different ways in different scenarios.

 

[Montalban]

Wow, tough crowd.

What's the alternative, though? Aside from leading by example, showing them that we can all live side by side, what else can we do?

Yeah, terrorism's such great material too!

 

[Montalban]

Morals and laws change as societies do. Alot of stuff used to happen back then which was considered normal. It doesn't make it 'good' or 'bad'.

We just consider it bad now. So you can't judge people back then by today's moral standards. Ya get me?

No. So it's just 'considered' bad now? By whom, and on what basis?

That's just it. Don't take it up with Muhammad, it's not his fault that's how things were done back then.

There's no evidence that it was 'good' back then. And he's the one setting himself up as an example for all time, so he's still at fault.

 

[AskTheFamily]

The Quran has said God has only forbidden friendship and love to those whom fight us. It teaches friendship and love to all those whom don't fight us. I say that's a religion of peace. It's very simple, don't fight, and there is love and friendship. If you fight and choose to be oppressive, then there is harshness and severity.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

I think you're on to something, man.

I have a brilliant idea. Why doesn't everyone on here who is really passionate about this (and there seem to be quite a few) dedicate the next dozen years or so to the intense study of Arabic, Islamic history, Qur'an, Hadith, and the development of Islamic law throughout the centuries, and then help educate everyone (Muslims and non-Muslims) about the most authentic interpretations... ones that are truest both to the letter of the law as well as the spirit of the law?

Why don't we start with the Bible first- since it was there more than 600 years before Muhammed, has the back-up of many independent witnesses, and has a leader who by His sinless example, actually practiced what He preached.

Of course, if you do that, and truly repent and fervently agree not to murder anyone just because they have a different belief system than your own, or because they convert from Islam, you'll have no need to study the Qur'an- other than as an example of how NOT to live your life.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

A bit late for me trying it. Spent the first 17 years of my life trying it.

The conclusion I've come to now makes far more sense to me, but I'm not here to explain my nihilism.

The problem with absolute morality is that... well, morality isn't absolute. It's always subjective.

One man's murder might be another man's self-defense. Different people act in different ways in different scenarios.

And therein lies the problem with atheism- there are no absolute standards, and no one to be accountable to. So you may believe that it is wrong to murder, steal, commit adultery, etc. etc.- but a fellow atheist may not agree with you- and who is to say who is right or wrong.

 

[Islam_mulia]

But despite the strong language, Jesus never encouraged Christians to murder and commit acts of terrorism; and even though He had the power to do so, He never struck people down who did not accept His teachings; He fully respected a person's free will to decide what it is they wish to believe in.

Christians should never be afraid to confront evil and speak the truth!

.

I am perturbed by what you wrote. You gave the impression that Christ was like a Lamb, a Prince of Peace, that would not hurt a soul. You mentioned Jesus had the "power", whuch I assumed to be the "power to kill and destroy".

You even wrote Jesus "never struck people down who did not accept His teachings".

You know what?

Your bible teaches you differently.

The bible seems to suggest that Jesus had the power to kill and destroy, and he just procastrinate that. Read Revelations and you know he will come down and kill men, women and children (because they choose a different lifestyle, different religions, maybe).... and Jesus, the Lamb, will certainly "struck people down who did not accept His teachings".

What happens if the Day is tomorrow?

 

[Satt]

The Quran has said God has only forbidden friendship and love to those whom fight us. It teaches friendship and love to all those whom don't fight us. I say that's a religion of peace. It's very simple, don't fight, and there is love and friendship. If you fight and choose to be oppressive, then there is harshness and severity.

What exactly do you mean by "those whom fight us"? What do you consider fighting you?

 

[AskTheFamily]

What exactly do you mean by "those whom fight us"? What do you consider fighting you?

I mean those whom kill, fighting as in physical violence...

60:9 Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

 

[Ayersy]

A lot of those things you call rubbish are just for us anyway (or for when the Temple stood). We don't even want others to try

But take the verse about assisting an enemy if his donkey has fallen. Now, you may laugh and say it doesn't apply to today, but just remove the exact scene and replace it with something else. The idea is that by helping an enemy, you may make a friend or at least remove an enemy. A simple gesture of kindness may be the spark.

Now, my morality doesn't tell me that on its own. I would avoid my enemy or not assist him when he was in some sort of difficult situation. But that verse gives me pause when a situation like that happens.

I think most people (at least I would) would stop and help someone to pull his ass out of a pit (Somehow rings a bell) regardless of religious belief.

The majority of people do help each other out, without any guidance from old books.

Your morality ain't so special. Human decency was around before the Torah, Bible and Quran.