ISIS: Should Christians take up arms?

[AYINDE F]

That's too bad. I was really looking forward to seeing somebody try to justify not defending the innocent with Bible verses.



Yeah, they leave a piece of a body here, a piece of a body there...



So, you're telling us you don't understand the difference between taking up arms because we disagree with somebody, and taking up arms to defend women and children from murderous animals?



I don't know. They seem to be representing the Quran's instruction to "kill the infidel wherever you may find him" pretty well.



Apparently, you've never read the Old Testament. Christ had no problem with violence when Israel was threatened.



How is it loving or compassionate to stand around spouting bumper sticker platitudes about peace and doing nothing when women and children are being murdered?



Not really. First, if they're among the elect, then Jesus will save them.

Second, how many women and children do you think we should allow to be murdered because Jesus loves murderers?



Yes. It would be acceptable and honorable for a Christian to go and fight even if it's not for the US military.

AYINDE FNew Member
NewBrethren we need to be united in prayer, and to be strong in Faith

 

[SteveIndy]

Evil wins when good men do nothing.

If you would stand by and do nothing as you and your sons are crucified and your wife and daughters taken as sex slaves to wish they had been crucified, then I would say the world doesn't need anymore masochistic Christians more concerned with dying for Jesus than fighting for good.

Because when they're done with your town, and they move on to the next one...no one in the next town will be lauding your decision to turn the other cheek. So why would God?

Christ brand of Christianity is good enough for me and it was good enough for His Apostles, and good enough for 300 years hence. Christ's command to His disciples was to follow Him, seems pretty plain to anyone who reads the N.T. and studies the early Christian records. But, to a diest who believes that Christ just up and left everything for man to work out on his own, he is free to fill in the blanks any way he likes.

 

[AYINDE F]

Christ brand of Christianity is good enough for me and it was good enough for His Apostles, and good enough for 300 years hence. Christ's command to His disciples was to follow Him, seems pretty plain to anyone who reads the N.T. and studies the early Christian records. But, to a diest who believes that Christ just up and left everything for man to work out on his own, he is free to fill in the blanks any way he likes.

True!

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Of course they should take up arms to defend themselves.

In fact, I've often wondered why American Christians don't form a militia and go defend them.

You were in the Army, weren’t you? Put one together. There are several Americans fighting with the Kurds and other groups against ISIS.

 

[brinny]

You were in the Army, weren’t you? Put one together. There are several Americans fighting with the Kurds and other groups against ISIS.

Would you care to elaborate? I ask because you mentioned the Kurds. God bless those precious people.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Would you care to elaborate? I ask because you mentioned the Kurds. God bless those precious people.

This is a simple breakdown on how various Kurdish groups are viewed by Turkey in the war against ISIS

Turkey v Syria's Kurds v Islamic State


2 US medics volunteer in anti-ISIS battle - CNN Video


The medic in the CNN video, Jon Rieth, is from Western Michigan and is wearing the unit patch of the Michigan National Guard on his uniform.

 

[brinny]

This is a simple breakdown on how various Kurdish groups are viewed by Turkey in the war against ISIS

Turkey v Syria's Kurds v Islamic State


2 US medics volunteer in anti-ISIS battle - CNN Video


The medic in the CNN video, Jon Rieth, is from Western Michigan and is wearing the unit patch of the Michigan National Guard on his uniform.

Thank you for the links.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Thank you for the links.

Hooray! Toe socks are back!

 

[brinny]

Hooray! Toe socks are back!

LOL! Yeah it's gettin' COLD, mon.

 

[Roseonathorn]

I heard on the radio on a christian channel that IS did start shooting people in Paris on a concert because they sang satanic songs like they were going to kiss the Devil. I do not support killing other people but I do not think the christian spiritual fight lies in flesh and blood but evidently terrorists think so. Maybe someone called need to preach the gospel to all muslims, christians, jews and muslims have similar roots and history way back in old testament. Maybe oldtestament time was a bit like some muslims rules where no mercy for sins was in sight. The words kidnapping, brainwash and lifethreath is also something I have heard IS does to recruit teens, even kids. If they escape and get questioned in another country if they have participated in IS and are honest about it they risk getting sent back. I can only imagine what a terror they themselves have inside before they start to see other people as unhuman less worthy than animals. I believe God can change the worst satanist so I think He can change terrorists too. I think prayer does much in the spiritual world. However when it comes to defending the life of those we love I do not believe everybody should be armed on the streets. Rather the opposite, all weapons including small knives worn on the streets should be illegal, maybe exeption fruitknives or knives for Your work stored away not worn in the streets , more cameras on public places and the police should be having a car out in the city at day time so everyone knows that there is someone patrolling. Here a terrorist or knifeman that attacks gets shot in the leg or arm as is custom to get them to stop, usually they do not stop otherwise. But it is policebusiness not for civilians to do. If a civilian does such things they might end up in big trouble or become a hero, or both, but I do not know which is better. Personnally I try to stay out of such trouble. I have not heard of terrorists in the wild, cold, forest where there are fewer people and more wolves and bears and other animals, they tend to stay in towns where there are crowds. And most muslims here do not like terrorism, most crimes here are not made by foreigners. Besides our country is one of the most rasist in the world I think and is getting worse. It is also not easy to get work and it means death to be homeless because it is too cold in winter, so by practical reasons one can not accept people, have them in the country and then send them back, maybe given a drug to keep calm, which is now happening again and again. I can understand if they get angry.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Christianity, like Islam, is a faith of peace (Islam actually means peace).

Whatever your source, that is blatantly not true.

Islam is from the Arabic word islām literally, submission (to God)

the definition of Islam

 

[SteveIndy]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

By all means, Christians should take up arms if they are carnal Christians. If they do as the world does then they are of the world.

 

[Barney2.0]

Yes they should take up arms because we won't turn the cheek for the enemies of God anymore.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Odd. There was no ISIS in biblical times, yet people want to stretch the scriptures so that they apply to a completely foreign topic.

...You can only stretch the truth so much before it breaks.

 

[Barney2.0]

Jesus told whosever has no sword among his apostles to arm himself. When your enemies come to you with swords and spears, Christ didn't say to let yourself be killed.

 

[SteveIndy]

I think you should be dropped off in ISIS controlled Iraq, and see what you say then. You obviously don't believe in Justice at all. I suppose you don't support the police either. Have you always been an anarchist?

...I suppose you would have just allowed the shoe-bomber and the 911 hijackers to do their mass killings too. You'd just stand there and watch them kill babies.

How did the Apostles handle those who acted like animals and killed them all? How did Jesus handle His persecutors? How did the primitive Church handle those who fed them and their families to lions, burnt them at the stake, an drowned them? Would you make the same comment to them as you have made to me that they should be dropped off in ISIS controlled territory to see what they would say and do then, preaching all that stuff about obeying the Gospel? They obviously didn’t believe in justice at all. I’ll bet they didn’t support Caesar’s police force? They were all anarchist no doubt!

I suppose that Jesus and His apostles just stood there and allowed all the mass killings of the Roman soldiers and never took up a sword to inflict justice. Do you see the absurdity of your position, but you can take comfort in the fact that you have a lot of company. The Christianity you propose is not the Christianity of Christ; it is really no different than the world other than this that you do certain religious things and speak religious words, but other than that it is, "kill or be killed," just like the world.

 

[Aldebaran]

How did the Apostles handle those who acted like animals and killed them all? How did Jesus handle His persecutors? How did the primitive Church handle those who fed them and their families to lions, burnt them at the stake, an drowned them? Would you make the same comment to them as you have made to me that they should be dropped off in ISIS controlled territory to see what they would say and do then, preaching all that stuff about obeying the Gospel? They obviously didn’t believe in justice at all. I’ll bet they didn’t support Caesar’s police force? They were all anarchist no doubt!

I suppose that Jesus and His apostles just stood there and allowed all the mass killings of the Roman soldiers and never took up a sword to inflict justice. Do you see the absurdity of your position, but you can take comfort in the fact that you have a lot of company. The Christianity you propose is not the Christianity of Christ; it is really no different than the world other than this that you do certain religious things and speak religious words, but other than that it is, "kill or be killed," just like the world.

Have you done any reading in the Old Testament? Read about the life of David sometime.

 

[SteveIndy]

Have you done any reading in the Old Testament? Read about the life of David sometime.

I have been a Christian for 44 years and have read and studied through the complete Bible many times. The O.T. is not valid in this argument. Read Matthew 5 where Jesus says that "you have heard it said" 6 times then overrides the O.T. by saying, "But I say." "The Law and the prophets were until John." Hebrews says, "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in many way, but in these last days I have spoken through My Son." Heb. 9:16-17 "In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living." The Old and New Testaments are "wills" as in last will and testaments. A will can be changed many times as long as the testator is alive, but once the testator dies then the will cannot be changed anymore. Jesus, the Testator, changed His will as shown in Matthew 5 then He died. It is the N.T. that we have to understand, and once we understand the N.T. then we will be better able to understand the O.T. The N.T. has to interpret the O.T. and not the other way around.

 

[Barney2.0]

No it is defending against the sword of Islam.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I have been a Christian for 44 years and have read and studied through the complete Bible many times. The O.T. is not valid in this argument. Read Matthew 5 where Jesus says that "you have heard it said" 6 times then overrides the O.T. by saying, "But I say." "The Law and the prophets were until John." Hebrews says, "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in many way, but in these last days I have spoken through My Son." Heb. 9:16-17 "In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living." The Old and New Testaments are "wills" as in last will and testaments. A will can be changed many times as long as the testator is alive, but once the testator dies then the will cannot be changed anymore. Jesus, the Testator, changed His will as shown in Matthew 5 then He died. It is the N.T. that we have to understand, and once we understand the N.T. then we will be better able to understand the O.T. The N.T. has to interpret the O.T. and not the other way around.

Inaction can be cruel. According to your interpretations of scripture, a little girl being raped in an alley by a thug who refuses to listen, should be left to her demise, even if there were a billy club laying right in front of you. I could never imagine Jesus doing that.

...Worldly justice is supposed to replicate eternal justice.

...The bible does not hold the fullness of Truth -there are a billion things not covered.

...Not all instincts that come from the conscience are evil.

...God offers graces to us that are realized through the conscience.