ISIS: Should Christians take up arms?

[High Fidelity]

We die for our faith, we don't kill for our faith.

Precisely.

If you're comfortable in your faith, whilst not actively seeking to expedite death, I don't see why one would fear it.

 

[Ducas]

He probably didn't. But when you have '>1bn followers', you need to choose your words more carefully

I agree with this. There have been far too many papal gaffes.

 

[GodlyYours]

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Exodus 15:3 - The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Psalm 45:3 - Gird Your sword on Your thigh, O Mighty One, In Your splendor and Your majesty!

Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

 

[mafwons]

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Exodus 15:3 - The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

Psalm 45:3 - Gird Your sword on Your thigh, O Mighty One, In Your splendor and Your majesty!

Ephesians 6:11 - Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Strangely these are all Old Testament references.

 

[curiouskay]

Israel ex-officer leads Ukraine protests: Reports

Sunday Feb 16, 2014
Ukrainian media have reported that a former Israeli army officer is playing a leading role in the anti-government protests in the former Soviet republic.

Four other Israelis, who had previously served in the army, were recently reported to have taken part in opposition rallies in Ukraine’s capital, Kiev.
http://thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/mossad.htm

Mossad Agent was an agent of the Israeli Mossad who was seen in MTAC, witnessing an operation that Mossad Officer Ziva David had acquired intel for.
http://ncis.wikia.com/wiki/Mossad_Agent

Nov 4, 2014 - The Islamic State group is the creation of Israel's Mossad, Iran's deputy foreign minister said Tuesday, accusing the spy agency of aiming to ...
http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.624626

Russian writer and political activist: Mossad training ISIS terrorists in Iraq, Syria
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Top-Putin-aide-Mossad-training-ISIS-terrorists-in-Iraq-Syria-383964

Isis claims responsibility for Texas attack
No evidence Islamic State had actual hand in attack as details emerge about would-be gunmen Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi
http://tinyurl.com/oez9qd6

 

[DennisTate]

.
.
This is a really tough question...
If pressed for an answer then
I say: Yes..
.

I totally agree.......


An apology to all members of the military and police!


I just want to say that I am truly sorry for all those years that I was close to believing in near total pacifism! Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua once asked a question of the Scribes and Pharisees that should have made it obvious to me that an extreme situation can call for drastic action by a Christian or Jew who feels called into a life in the military or police!


Mark 3:4 "And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace."

I am almost certain that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua was referring to the situation faced by the Machabees when Greco - Syrian armies were attacking Jewish communities on the Sabbath.

One community had refused to fight back....but the Machabees....in my opinion correctly judged that this is a violation of an admonition by King Solomon:


Ecclesiastes 7:16 "Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself?"


"So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons. [39] And Mathathias and his friends heard of it, and they mourned for them exceedingly. [40] And every man said to his neighbour: If we shall all do as our brethren have done, and not fight against the heathens for our lives, and our justifications: they will now quickly root us out of the earth.

[41] And they determined in that day, saying: Whosoever shall come up against us to fight on the sabbath day, we will fight against him: and we will not all die, as our brethren that were slain in the secret places."

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible, 1 Machabees Chapter 2

 

[TestifyToTruth]

The oldest Christian denomination in the world - dating from before St Paul's journey to Damascus - the Syriac Orthodox Church whose liturgy is in Aramaic - the same language Jesus spoke - comprises 10% of the Syrian population.

These Syrian Christians are strong supporters of President Assad and the Syrian government. Why? Because the Assad government supports a secular Syrian state and the rights of all religious groups.

So Christians have been fighting ISIS and al-Qaeda all along in Syria. The title of this thread just shows the ignorance bred by reading the mainstream globalist controlled media.

It is Israeli, Saudi, Qatari, Turkish, and some would say CIA support to those groups is where ISIS and al-Qaeda get all their money and weaponry to fight a major 5 year long war.

 

[SteveIndy]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

They should not listen to those who direct them to defend themselves but rather listen to their Lord and Master who directs them to love their enemies and cloth them and turn the other cheek. Persecution is not something that should surprise us, we should expect it. Was Jesus persecuted? Was His Apostles persecuted? Was those early Christians for the first three hundred years persecuted? Persecution pretty much went away once the Church linked arms with the world under Constantine and Augustine. Then the Church itself started to do the persecuting and it continued that way through the Dark Ages of the Church-run government of the Catholics. Then, during the Reformation not only did the Catholics persecute other Christians but Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin also did likewise. During that period it was the Anabaptist who held out the real light of truth and refused to take up arms against their enemies and they were slaughtered without mercy by the supposed Christians of the Catholic and Reformation Churches. Worldly Christians will take up arms to defend themselves because they do not believe Christ or follow Him. They do and act just like those who reject Christ, so where is the difference? They are Christians in word only.

 

[The~Cerberus~Infinite]

The Christians?

Are you serious. Do you know anything about the actions of Wahhabist and extremist Muslims in the Middle East including Al Qaeda and the Taliban?

The vast majority of their victims subjected to horrific torture and death are.......Muslims. Where is your call to take up arms in the name of your fellow Muslims because they are fellow human beings.

But wait. There are Christians in the Middle East being subjected to the same atrocities as far more Muslims are being subjected to but since hey, you are in the West and likely a Christian, it's suddenly important to care about people in that region because they might believe in Jesus rather than Allah.

Never mind the Jews in that region.

I'm reminded of the fallout of the Iraq War under Bush, Sr. We made so many promises to the Kurds, who are Muslim, and offered them support in an attempt to break away from a regime that was operating outright murder against the Kurdish people. But we forgot. They were not Christian. Than of course there were the Turks who we were also trying to placate against the Russians. We abandoned them.

But ISIS is persecuting Christians! Oh woe is.......

ISIS is persecuting everyone! Everyone!

How dare you or anyone demand action because they might be persecuting someone based upon your own mythological beliefs. They are human beings. Muslims, Jews, Dravidians, Christians, etc. are being persecuted.

You either care about all the people all the time or go home.

This is the 21st century. We are far beyond the prophecies of ancient texts. We are a singular species. You either care about all or don't care at all.

No, prayer is not needed. The short answer is that if you do not believe in engaging ISIS as they committed massive violence against other Muslims but might be considering violent interdiction because they are also targeting Christians.........you need to check yourself.

It's also accurate to say the biggest victims of the Nazis were the German people. But considering the Germans gave us the Nazis, that sympathy gets burned up by culpability. Likewise, sympathy for muslims is burnt away by their culpability in perpetuating the ideology that enslaves them.

My heart goes out to those trapped under such systems but unable to free themselves.

 

[The~Cerberus~Infinite]

The oldest Christian denomination in the world - dating from before St Paul's journey to Damascus - the Syriac Orthodox Church whose liturgy is in Aramaic - the same language Jesus spoke - comprises 10% of the Syrian population.

These Syrian Christians are strong supporters of President Assad and the Syrian government. Why? Because the Assad government supports a secular Syrian state and the rights of all religious groups.

So Christians have been fighting ISIS and al-Qaeda all along in Syria. The title of this thread just shows the ignorance bred by reading the mainstream globalist controlled media.

It is Israeli, Saudi, Qatari, Turkish, and some would say CIA support to those groups is where ISIS and al-Qaeda get all their money and weaponry to fight a major 5 year long war.

Indeed. The war crimes that have been committed by our government, in our names, is infuriating. The CIA and State Dept are the source of virtually all jihadist groups we deal with today.

 

[The~Cerberus~Infinite]

They should not listen to those who direct them to defend themselves but rather listen to their Lord and Master who directs them to love their enemies and cloth them and turn the other cheek. Persecution is not something that should surprise us, we should expect it. Was Jesus persecuted? Was His Apostles persecuted? Was those early Christians for the first three hundred years persecuted? Persecution pretty much went away once the Church linked arms with the world under Constantine and Augustine. Then the Church itself started to do the persecuting and it continued that way through the Dark Ages of the Church-run government of the Catholics. Then, during the Reformation not only did the Catholics persecute other Christians but Zwingli, Luther, and Calvin also did likewise. During that period it was the Anabaptist who held out the real light of truth and refused to take up arms against their enemies and they were slaughtered without mercy by the supposed Christians of the Catholic and Reformation Churches. Worldly Christians will take up arms to defend themselves because they do not believe Christ or follow Him. They do and act just like those who reject Christ, so where is the difference? They are Christians in word only.

Evil wins when good men do nothing.

If you would stand by and do nothing as you and your sons are crucified and your wife and daughters taken as sex slaves to wish they had been crucified, then I would say the world doesn't need anymore masochistic Christians more concerned with dying for Jesus than fighting for good.

Because when they're done with your town, and they move on to the next one...no one in the next town will be lauding your decision to turn the other cheek. So why would God?

 

[The~Cerberus~Infinite]

I won't sit here and quote Bible verses at you all, but I don't think we should take arms against anybody.

Christianity, like Islam, is a faith of peace (Islam actually means peace). Jesus was born and crucified so that we could be cleansed of our sins, and I don't think that taking up arms against a group of people that we disagree with is, in any way, a reflection of Christ.

ISIS categorically does not represent the faith of Islam. The people in ISIS are seeking that which is not written in the Koran, and they are directly disobeying Islamic teachings for their own publicity and glorification. All of my Muslim friends are appalled by ISIS and frequently tell me how offensive the organisation is to Muslims around the world.

Lead by Christ's example and don't act violently. We need to show others how He acts through us, demonstrating love and compassion, even for those who we may regard as being dangerous. Jesus loves these people, he died for their sins just as he died for our sins, and to ignore that is to miss the point of our faith entirely.

Make love, not war.

Oh dear...

"Islam" actually means, "Peace through submission to the will of allah."

And it is, categorically, NOT a religion of peace. It is an ideology that was very successfully spread by the sword, and whose existence is maintained by killing deconverts.

The issue isn't that isis disagrees with the christians, it's that they are torturing, murdering, raping and enslaving them.

In the face of such evil, doing nothing is a choice in of itself. And you don't get to use morality as a justification for not resisting evil. That is an utter perversion of morality.

I don't care what offends people who worship a slave taking, 11 wife having, child bride marrying, 7th century warlord. And unfortunately, ISIS isn't doing anything mohamed himself did not do.

If you think your religion calls for you to be sheep, ok. You will be well matched for the religion that calls for it's followers to be wolves.

 

[AYINDE F]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

I believe that the harm they are taking against the IS cannot protect them, they cannot defend themselves but God will give them victory. Let us Continue to pray for them.

 

[The~Cerberus~Infinite]

We die for our faith, we don't kill for our faith.

Would you kill to keep you family and neighbors from ending up raped and tortured?

 

[DennisTate]

Would you kill to keep you family and neighbors from ending up raped and tortured?

Yes.... I think that I just might.........
it would depend to some degree on the exact situation though. But if I lived in Syria or Iraq.... I would almost certainly have to take up arms......

 

[The~Cerberus~Infinite]

Yes.... I think that I just might.........
it would depend to some degree on the exact situation though. But if I lived in Syria or Iraq.... I would almost certainly have to take up arms......

If it's muslims coming for you, that's the plot.

 

[War_Eagle]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

Of course they should take up arms to defend themselves.

In fact, I've often wondered why American Christians don't form a militia and go defend them.

 

[DennisTate]

Of course they should take up arms to defend themselves.

In fact, I've often wondered why American Christians don't form a militia and go defend them.

Good question indeed........

Anonymous......"When the Sunni Non-Commisioned Officers asked their Shia Colonel's, Major's, Captain's...etc...who were getting in their cars to drive back to Baghdad ...what they should do....the Shia Officers told the Sunni Grunt's to take off their uniforms and blend in with the local communities.

THE SHIA OFFICER'S ACTUALLY TOLD THEM TO DO THIS!!!

When the ISIS came into these communities after asking where and who the Iraqi Military Men where that worked with the American's and Sunni's at first none of the Villager's said anything.

But after the ISIS started shooting to death little children such as the Grandchildren of the Village Elders...they talked and even though the Iraqi Soldier's were also Sunni...the ISIS killed them anyways.

The tragedy is that if the Shia Officers had STAYED and BEEN LEADERS OF MEN....they would have easily WIPED OUT ALL ISIS FORCES attempting to come into Iraq as they were equipped with high tech. American Weapons Systems.

I was in Iraq doing a JOB with my Team and we had just finished this JOB and were about to go home when the ISIS incident happened.

We were asked to stay and as although my Team are members of the U.S. Military and sometimes I even have Team Members who are either British or Aussie SAS....I am NOT MILITARY....am I..."CIVILIAN"...in the manner the quotes denote.

After the ISIS trapped about 40,000 Iraqis on top of Mt. Sinjar and these mostly women and children began dying as the ISIS would not allow Food or Water up the mountain my Team and I were asked to do another JOB.

We didn't have to do this JOB as we had just finished another but as I am not Military although I am Team Leader I put it to a vote...and every single member of my tired but READY TEAM VOTED TO STAY.

Or JOB was to find out exactly who and what the ISIS in Iraq were and after doing a few SNATCH AND GRABS and after a few intensive interogations we found that the ISIS numbered no more than 27,000 and were mostly Criminals and Mentally Insane that had been let out of jails and given AK-47's and RPG's and let lose upon the Middle East by some Ghost Leadership who I will not discuss.

The members of ISIS have very little to zero Military Training.

Against my Team it was as if we were shooting FISH IN A BARREL and after a week we decided to leave as we understood that the ISIS was not a real trained Military Force but rather a bunch of CRIMINALLY INSANE SOCIOPATHS AND PSYCHOPATHS that were let loose by another Group.

If those Shia Officer's had not been COWARDS and had not run away back to Baghdad....they could have Lead their Men and the ISIS would have been destroyed entering Iraq.

(Anonymous)

 

[War_Eagle]

I won't sit here and quote Bible verses at you all, but I don't think we should take arms against anybody.

That's too bad. I was really looking forward to seeing somebody try to justify not defending the innocent with Bible verses.

Islam, is a faith of peace

Yeah, they leave a piece of a body here, a piece of a body there...

(Islam actually means peace). Jesus was born and crucified so that we could be cleansed of our sins, and I don't think that taking up arms against a group of people that we disagree with is, in any way, a reflection of Christ.

So, you're telling us you don't understand the difference between taking up arms because we disagree with somebody, and taking up arms to defend women and children from murderous animals?

ISIS categorically does not represent the faith of Islam.

I don't know. They seem to be representing the Quran's instruction to "kill the infidel wherever you may find him" pretty well.

Lead by Christ's example and don't act violently.

Apparently, you've never read the Old Testament. Christ had no problem with violence. He killed literally every living thing on the planet with the exception of eight people and a handful of animals. He order unimaginable violence against surrounding nations when Israel was threatened.

We need to show others how He acts through us, demonstrating love and compassion

How is it loving or compassionate to stand around spouting bumper sticker platitudes about peace and doing nothing when women and children are being murdered?

Jesus loves these people, he died for their sins just as he died for our sins, and to ignore that is to miss the point of our faith entirely.

Not really. First, if they're among the elect, then Jesus will save them.

Second, how many women and children do you think we should allow to be murdered because Jesus loves murderers?

So if the US does sound ground troops into Iraq and Syria, it would be acceptable and even honorable for a Christian to volunteer to go and fight ISIS as part of the US armed forces.

Yes. It would be acceptable and honorable for a Christian to go and fight even if it's not for the US military.

 

[AYINDE F]

Brethren we need to be united in prayer, and to be strong in Faith.