ISIS: Should Christians take up arms?

[jovanovic]

we already are. there is christians in iraqi army, syria army and egypt army.

 

[SteveIndy]

Inaction can be cruel. According to your interpretations of scripture, a little girl being raped in an alley by a thug who refuses to listen, should be left to her demise, even if there were a billy club laying right in front of you. I could never imagine Jesus doing that.

...Worldly justice is supposed to replicate eternal justice.

...The bible does not hold the fullness of Truth -there are a billion things not covered.

...Not all instincts that come from the conscience are evil.

...God offers graces to us that are realized through the conscience.

 

[SteveIndy]

Inaction can be cruel. According to your interpretations of scripture, a little girl being raped in an alley by a thug who refuses to listen, should be left to her demise, even if there were a billy club laying right in front of you. I could never imagine Jesus doing that.

...Worldly justice is supposed to replicate eternal justice.

...The bible does not hold the fullness of Truth -there are a billion things not covered.

...Not all instincts that come from the conscience are evil.

...God offers graces to us that are realized through the conscience.

You have read way too much into the conversation. To begin with, I never said that I would do nothing I only said that a professing Christian who uses a gun is not acting as a Christian. Christians should intervene even at the risk of their own lives. The majority of so-called Christians would do nothing unless they had a weapon so that they themselves could avoid harm.

Are you saying that you can imagine Jesus using a gun, knife, or club in the situation you describe? If that is the case you know nothing of the Christ you say you serve. He came as a Lamb and a Dove, which of these have you ever seen pictured as aggressive or hurtful? Furthermore, we have the record of the Holy Spirit in Scripture to attest that in the N.T. that that was never the case; it is only in your mind, a fantasy.

You say, “...Worldly justice is supposed to replicate eternal justice.” There are two kinds of justice, 1. There is the justice to the non-Christian and the carnal Christian which is “eye for eye and tooth for tooth” justice, that is the justice you are describing when you think it is okay for a person to kill a person who is harming someone else or harming you, i.e. they get what they deserve kind of justice. 2. Then there is the justice of the God toward the true Christian. That justice we see displayed by Christ who took our punishment upon Himself. That justice is the justice that we are to display toward our enemies, it is called mercy, i.e. they do not get what they deserve. We have been given mercy so we are to show mercy. If we show no mercy then we will receive no mercy and we fall back under the law of the land which is an eye for an eye justice.

You say “...The bible does not hold the fullness of Truth -there are a billion things not covered.” 2 Peter 1:3 “His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.” The Bible gives us everything we need. Christ has not given us an escape hatch, if you do not understand the Bible then you need to pray for understanding which given freely to all who are sincere in their hearts, but if you are not sincere and only want to be right or want to win an argument then you will receive nothing from God, because He is a discerner of both the thoughts and the intentions of the heart.

You say, “...Not all instincts that come from the conscience are evil.” This is a true statement but are you able to tell the difference? Without having a correct understanding of the N.T. you cannot be sure that your conscience is trustworthy. “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.” Everything we think we know has to align with God’s word. Our thoughts and conscience are corrupted and cannot be trusted.

You said, “...God offers graces to us that are realized through the conscience.” You are correct. When we have the right understanding of God’s word and we then act on that correct understanding our conscience will be at peace. If you make provision for the flesh by stockpiling weapons for a feared attack then you may have the peace that the world offers but it will only end in death because he who lives by the sword or gun will die by the sword or gun, God has promised that.

 

[Barney2.0]

Jesus will come back with sword in hand not as a hippie.

 

[SteveIndy]

Jesus will come back with sword in hand not as a hippie.

Yes, you are correct. But, we mustn't confuse Jesus first visit with His second visit. Jesus came the first time as a sacrificial Lamb, "a bruised reed He would not break or a smoldering flask He would not quench." His second visit will be as the Lion from the tribe of Judah with wrath. It is the Jesus as Lamb that we are to follow and not the lion, that is why He tells us to pick up our cross and follow Him, as the sacrificial lamb.

 

[VCR-2000]

Exactly, the reason Islam doesn't need to even deal with being in the face of having their ways attacked or persecuted is because their society is a more militant and aggressive one.

I don't care that Christians (or anyone of other faith) decide to take up arms and kill against the militants who are on the aggression.