ISIS: Should Christians take up arms?

[JackC]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

 

[Pink Spider]

.
.
This is a really tough question...
If pressed for an answer then
I say: Yes..
.

 

[mafwons]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

They should not be taking up arms to defend a building, themselves quiye possibly, but that would be determined by prayer I would think.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

A Christian soldier in Syria: 'We have to defend our community'

Mind you, this was before the ISIS caliphate appeared, back when the Obama administation wanted to launch cruise missles on ISIS' behalf.

 

[gnomon]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

The Christians?

Are you serious. Do you know anything about the actions of Wahhabist and extremist Muslims in the Middle East including Al Qaeda and the Taliban?

The vast majority of their victims subjected to horrific torture and death are.......Muslims. Where is your call to take up arms in the name of your fellow Muslims because they are fellow human beings.

But wait. There are Christians in the Middle East being subjected to the same atrocities as far more Muslims are being subjected to but since hey, you are in the West and likely a Christian, it's suddenly important to care about people in that region because they might believe in Jesus rather than Allah.

Never mind the Jews in that region.

I'm reminded of the fallout of the Iraq War under Bush, Sr. We made so many promises to the Kurds, who are Muslim, and offered them support in an attempt to break away from a regime that was operating outright murder against the Kurdish people. But we forgot. They were not Christian. Than of course there were the Turks who we were also trying to placate against the Russians. We abandoned them.

But ISIS is persecuting Christians! Oh woe is.......

ISIS is persecuting everyone! Everyone!

How dare you or anyone demand action because they might be persecuting someone based upon your own mythological beliefs. They are human beings. Muslims, Jews, Dravidians, Christians, etc. are being persecuted.

You either care about all the people all the time or go home.

This is the 21st century. We are far beyond the prophecies of ancient texts. We are a singular species. You either care about all or don't care at all.

No, prayer is not needed. The short answer is that if you do not believe in engaging ISIS as they committed massive violence against other Muslims but might be considering violent interdiction because they are also targeting Christians.........you need to check yourself.

 

[orangeness365]

The Christians?

Are you serious. Do you know anything about the actions of Wahhabist and extremist Muslims in the Middle East including Al Qaeda and the Taliban?

The vast majority of their victims subjected to horrific torture and death are.......Muslims. Where is your call to take up arms in the name of your fellow Muslims because they are fellow human beings.

But wait. There are Christians in the Middle East being subjected to the same atrocities as far more Muslims are being subjected to but since hey, you are in the West and likely a Christian, it's suddenly important to care about people in that region because they might believe in Jesus rather than Allah.

Never mind the Jews in that region.

I'm reminded of the fallout of the Iraq War under Bush, Sr. We made so many promises to the Kurds, who are Muslim, and offered them support in an attempt to break away from a regime that was operating outright murder against the Kurdish people. But we forgot. They were not Christian. Than of course there were the Turks who we were also trying to placate against the Russians. We abandoned them.

But ISIS is persecuting Christians! Oh woe is.......

ISIS is persecuting everyone! Everyone!

How dare you or anyone demand action because they might be persecuting someone based upon your own mythological beliefs. They are human beings. Muslims, Jews, Dravidians, Christians, etc. are being persecuted.

You either care about all the people all the time or go home.

This is the 21st century. We are far beyond the prophecies of ancient texts. We are a singular species. You either care about all or don't care at all.

No, prayer is not needed. The short answer is that if you do not believe in engaging ISIS as they committed massive violence against other Muslims but might be considering violent interdiction because they are also targeting Christians.........you need to check yourself.

Don't forget that the members of ISIS are human beings too and therefore should be cared about as well...

 

[ALoveDivine]

Yes, I believe Christians are justified in taking up arms against ISIS. Nowhere in scripture is basic defense of self, family, and community prohibited. Using violence to destroy ISIS is just as justified as it was to use violence to destroy the Nazi's. Any violence against this group is inherently defensive.

That being said, Christians internationally should not travel to the region to fight ISIS, except as a soldier under the authority of the state they are subject to. So if the US does sound ground troops into Iraq and Syria, it would be acceptable and even honorable for a Christian to volunteer to go and fight ISIS as part of the US armed forces.

 

[LucyEnEcosse]

I won't sit here and quote Bible verses at you all, but I don't think we should take arms against anybody.

Christianity, like Islam, is a faith of peace (Islam actually means peace). Jesus was born and crucified so that we could be cleansed of our sins, and I don't think that taking up arms against a group of people that we disagree with is, in any way, a reflection of Christ.

ISIS categorically does not represent the faith of Islam. The people in ISIS are seeking that which is not written in the Koran, and they are directly disobeying Islamic teachings for their own publicity and glorification. All of my Muslim friends are appalled by ISIS and frequently tell me how offensive the organisation is to Muslims around the world.

Lead by Christ's example and don't act violently. We need to show others how He acts through us, demonstrating love and compassion, even for those who we may regard as being dangerous. Jesus loves these people, he died for their sins just as he died for our sins, and to ignore that is to miss the point of our faith entirely.

Make love, not war.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

We die for our faith, we don't kill for our faith.

 

[mindlight]

"All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things. But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."

The Christians in The midst of ISIS's rampage are suffering greatly. They are being forced out of the churches and the churches are being burned, they are being killed in mass. Many Christians in Iraq have begun taking up arms to defend churches, often times deeply historical churches that have stood for many centuries. Should they be doing this? Or should they turn the other cheek and know that their soul and protection lies with their lord; and that through G-d they will be saved?

There are circumstances when it is right for a Christian to kill and there are times when they simply have endure the difficulties that they face.

Personally I believe God is saying to the Christians there for much of the last 10 years to leave by any way they can and as soon as they can. So the military protection of Christians is a secondary goal to facilitating that flight. If you listen to the pastors on the ground like the vicar of Baghdad for instance - they are saying pretty much the same thing. God is removing his people and this does not bode well for those that are left.

Regarding a military strategy of defeating ISIS it seems to me the following things are relevant:

1) Professional Coalition forces are engaged in the area and Christians pressured politicians in the UK and in USA to make that happen. They are likely more effective than individual efforts though I have no problem with Christians joining the Peshmerga for example as I know some American have done. It would help if they had actual military training.

2) On occasions the local military e.g. that of Iraq or Syria has not been that effective in protecting the local population. Local militias have been a feature of the local security arrangements in the area so why not a Christian militia in a situation where lawlessness is otherwise the reality. But it seems to me that is something to be decided and formed in conjunction with the local authorities.

3) Christian soldiers in the Middle East can very easily be presented as crusaders by the Islamist propaganda machine so I am not sure if they do not contribute to the problem and especially when they come from outside.

So in essence I think the military strategy for defeating IS should be mainly by the local forces e.g. Peshmerga and Iraqi military. Coalition support should be discreet e.g. intelligence, battle field communications and coordination and awareness, targeted special forces, air strikes etc, training the locals.

 

[humbleServant77]

ISIS is persecuting everyone! Everyone!

How dare you or anyone demand action because they might be persecuting someone based upon your own mythological beliefs.

Easy there, tiger. Nobody is "demanding action."

The OP asked a question. A reasonable question, that is not at all easy to answer. Care to address it?

 

[humbleServant77]

So in essence I think the military strategy for defeating IS should be mainly by the local forces e.g. Peshmerga and Iraqi military. Coalition support should be discreet e.g. intelligence, battle field communications and coordination and awareness, targeted special forces, air strikes etc, training the locals.

Yah, nothing says "discreet" like a good US airstrike

Happy New Year - kaBOOM

Somehow, I would not use the word discreet to describe this.

My own address of the OP is that most Christians have fled already.

 

[JohnLocke]

Are you serious.
You either care about all the people all the time or go home.

This is the 21st century. We are far beyond the prophecies of ancient texts. We are a singular species. You either care about all or don't care at all.

No, prayer is not needed. The short answer is that if you do not believe in engaging ISIS as they committed massive violence against other Muslims but might be considering violent interdiction because they are also targeting Christians.........you need to check yourself.

Think you need to check yourself. Who do you love more your children or my spouse? Your spouse or the barrista on the corner that puts a leaf in my coffee each morning?

But "You either care about all or don't care at all." Lazy clap trap.

Perhaps you should check yourself before you wreck yourself.

 

[Brandonspapa]

I think that we should put boots on the ground in Israel.

 

[Ducas]

Pope Francis sees nothing wrong with the use of force against ISIS and the term 'just war' does exist for a reason. Indifference to the numerous outrages perpetrated by the savages of ISIS brings to my mind the question that Cain asked of God after he had just murdered Abel: Am I my brother's keeper?

 

[Oafman]

Pope Francis sees nothing wrong with the use of force against ISIS

Pope Francis sees nothing wrong with punching someone for saying rude things about his Mum! So, his opinion on such matters doesn't appear to be worth very much.

 

[Ducas]

Pope Francis sees nothing wrong with punching someone for saying rude things about his Mum! So, his opinion on such matters doesn't appear to be worth very much.

I didn't hear about this one.

 

[Oafman]

I didn't hear about this one.

Pope Francis: 'I'll PUNCH anyone who insults my mother'

It is true that you must not react violently, but although we are good friends if my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch.

Impressive that a man who claims to be infallible is able to contradict himself in a single sentence.

 

[Ducas]

Impressive that a man who claims to be infallible is able to contradict himself in a single sentence.

Oh boy I didn't hear of this one! Do you think he actually meant it?

Anyways the Holy Father is only infallible when he's speaking ex cathedra, i.e. in his official capacity. It's a misnomer to think that everything that the Pope says is infallible.

 

[Oafman]

Oh boy I didn't hear of this one! Do you think he actually meant it?

He probably didn't. But when you have '>1bn followers', you need to choose your words more carefully