Isaac or Ishmael?

[Montalban]

Is it dawn of the dead? Why are so many old threads rising back lately?

Lack of new ones? Of course the irony is that you posting here has 'raised it'.

 

[ApplePie7]

Hi all!

I recall a conversation where there is a disagreement as to who was actually offered up for sacrifice to God by Abraham. Was it Isaac or Ishmael?

Thanks for your responses!
(if any)

According to the Koran, it was Isaac….and that the Lord’s blessing is completed through Israel…




12.5

Genesis…Joseph’s dream…


نحن نقص عليك أحسن القصص بما أوحينا
إليك هذا القرءان وإن كنت من قبله لمن الغفلين
إذ قال يوسف لأبيه يأبت إني رأيت أحد عشر
كوكبا والشمس والقمر رأيتهم لي سجدين قال يبني لا تقصص رءياك على إخوتك فيكيدوا لك كيدا إن الشيطن للإنسن عدو مبين وكذلك يجتبيك ربك ويعلمك من تأويل الأحاديث ويتم نعمته عليك وعلى ءال يعقوب كما أتمها على أبويك من قبل إبرهيم وإسحق إن ربك عليم حكيم

Nahnu naqussu AAalayka ahsana alqasasi bima awhayna ilayka hatha alqur-ana wa-in kunta min qablihi lamina alghafileena iIth qala yoosufu li-abeehi ya abati innee raaytu ahada AAashara kawkaban waalshshamsa waalqamara raaytuhum lee sajideena qala ya bunayya la taqsus ru/yaka AAala ikhwatika fayakeedoo laka kaydan inna alshshaytana lil-insani AAaduwwun mubeenun wakathalika yajtabeeka rabbuka wayuAAallimuka min ta/weeli al-ahadeethi wayutimmu niAAmatahu AAalayka waAAala ali yaAAqooba kama atammaha AAala abawayka min qablu ibraheema wa-ishaqa inna rabbaka AAaleemun hakeemun

We, we relate on you, he did the narrative excellently, with what we revealed to you, this, The Collection, and truly you were from before it from the unmindful ones. When Joseph said to his father: "O! My dear father that I, I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon, I saw them those who prostrate themselves to me." Say: "O! My dear son, relate not your dream to your brothers, so they devise to you an artful device, truly the devil to mankind is a clear enemy.” And likewise, your Lord, He chooses you and He teaches you by explanation, the narratives, and completes His blessing on you, and on Jacob's (Israel) people, just as He completed it on your fathers from before, Abraham and Isaac, truly your Lord who knows, wise. (12.3 – 6)


This first instance is in the heart of paraphrased Biblical Genesis material (i.e. referred to here as “the narrative”), and confirms what is already readily apparent, i.e. that the Koran (the collection) is merely reformatted Biblical material.

These ayahs recall Jacob’s (Israel) son, Joseph, and his “eleven star” dream in which his brothers devise an artful device against him.



These ayahs pertain to the lineage of Isaac/Israel.

Further, these ayahs confirm that the Lord’s blessing is completed through Israel’s people.




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21.70


Genesis…Abraham…Isaac…Israel…


قلنا ينار كوني بردا وسلما على إبرهيم وأرادوا به كيدا فجعلنهم الأخسرين ونجينه ولوطا إلى الأرض التي بركنا فيها للعلمين ووهبنا له إسحق ويعقوب نافلة وكلا جعلنا صلحين

Qulna ya naru koonee bardan wasalaman AAala ibraheema waaradoo bihi kaydan fajaAAalnahumu al-akhsareena wanajjaynahu walootan ila al-ardi allatee barakna feeha lilAAalameena wawahabna lahu ishaqa wayaAAqooba nafilatan wakullan jaAAalna saliheena

You say: "O! Fire, be you of coolness and peace always on Abraham." And they intended with him an artful device, so we made them the worst lowers. And we delivered him and Lot to the earth which we blessed in it to the jinn and mankind. And truly we granted to him, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) a voluntary gift, and each we made good and righteous ones. (21.69 – 72)


This second instance is once again in the heart of paraphrased Biblical Genesis material.

These ayahs pertain to the lineage of Isaac/Israel.

Further, these ayahs confirm that Isaac & Israel are good and righteous gifts.




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37.98


Genesis…Abraham…sacrificial son Isaac…



قالوا ابنوا له بنينا فألقوه في الجحيم فأرادوا به كيدا فجعلنهم الأسفلين وقال إني ذاهب إلى ربي سيهدين رب هب لي من الصلحين فبشرنه بغلم حليم فلما بلغ معه السعي قال يبني إني أرى في المنام أني أذبحك فانظر ماذا ترى قال يأبت افعل ما تؤمر ستجدني إن شاء الله من الصبرين

Qaloo ibnoo lahu bunyanan faalqoohu fee aljaheemi faaradoo bihi kaydan fajaAAalnahumu al-asfaleena waqala innee thahibun ila rabbee sayahdeeni rabbi hab lee mina alssaliheena fabashsharnahu bighulamin haleemin falamma balagha maAAahu alssaAAya qala ya bunayya innee ara fee almanami annee athbahuka faonthur matha tara qala ya abati ifAAal ma tu/maru satajidunee in shaa Allahu mina alssabireena

They said: "Truly you built his structure, so cast him in the blazing fire.” So they intended an artful device with him, so we made them the most humiliated. And said: "That I am going to my Lord, he will guide me." "Lord bestow (for) me from the good and righteous one." So we gave good tidings to him with a forbearing son. So when he reached the endeavor with him, Say: "O! My dear son, "That I, I see in the dreaming that I, I am slaughtering you, so look and consider what you see" Say: "O! My dear father, you do what you are commanded, so you will find me, if “allah” he willed from the patient." (37.97 – 102)


This third instance is again in the heart of paraphrased Biblical Genesis material.

In this instance, we have the story of Abraham as he is about to sacrifice his son Isaac to Yahweh, only this time around the authors of the Koran attempted to raise and insert the pagan Arab god “allah” in lieu of the true creator God Yahweh.

Just as in the context of 21.70, we understand that Isaac was ranked as a “good and righteous one” – as we again are told this of his son.


These ayahs pertain to the lineage of Isaac/Israel.

Further, these ayahs confirm that Isaac was the son that Abraham offered, not Ishmael as Muslims would have us believe.

 

[sealacamp]

Ishmael had been sent away long before the sacrifice incident. In addition the scriptures clearly say it was Issac.

Sealacamp