Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[miknik5]

I use to believe this as well......which is why i still dont judge and say i KNOW the way........cant give specific directions to a place I've never been... This is what blind leading blind means.

But this is a very dangerous belief...as there is no repentance in the grave. I will find heaven before my body Dies.....after that, there will be no Death for Me. Then i will come and show others the Way.......and of course will be despised and rejected by most.

Believe in the word and promises of GOD

 

[Wolf_Says]

Remember this teaching from apostle peter 1 pe 3:21: the water saved noah and his family, and in the like figure water now saves us in baptism....IN FIGURE....which is not a putting of the filfthyness of flesh (so thats not happening)....but jsut an answer to a good concience towards god.

So we can deinfitly know that the water baotism is a FIGURE and not a literal happening, the true repentance happens within, not in the water, and there is no salvation of sin in the water, its still just a figure of a burial and a resirection, the true burial and resurection happens in christ, and no water can add to taht.

the amount of spelling errors....

It is both the water and the Spirit in baptism that makes us born again.

1 Peter 3:21-22 " Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him."

that is the full quote of your verse.

This doesn't detract from what Jesus spoke in John 3:5

 

[miknik5]

I think i follow Paul in this, if thats ok with you all:
"1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you"

Why did Paul say that?
Do you know?

 

[geiroffenberg]

BTW - there is no room in the narrow streets of Jerusalem's residences (where the upper room is located) for thousands to have heard Peter preach.

yes, of course thats all a myth. The bible simple states they were staying at the upper room together as none of them actually lived in jerusalem. At the day of pentacost these good jewish boys and girls was OF COURSE in the mandatory prayer cermony at the temple, and there there was around 200.000 jews gathered of all nations, and they were seated under solomos port, and whn the fires fell they all saw it and heard the sound. This literally fulfilled the prophecy that god will annot the temple after christ death, because the outpouring of the spirit literally happened in the temple area

 

[Dave-W]

Those gentiles were saved before Peter water baptizes them, and this the LORD did as an example to us for doctrine, that it is His mercy that saves us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit and not by physical water baptisms.

Maybe, maybe not. Spirit Upon includes all supernatural manifiestations like tongues and prophecy can happen to the unsaved. Remember even Saul when he was trying to kill David and Caiaphas when he was plotting to kill Jesus both prophesied.

 

[Wolf_Says]

I use to believe this as well......which is why i still dont judge and say i KNOW the way........cant give specific directions to a place I've never been... This is what blind leading blind means.

But this is a very dangerous belief...as there is no repentance in the grave. I will find heaven before my body Dies.....after that, there will be no Death for Me. Then i will come and show others the Way.......and of course will be despised and rejected by most.

No, but you have repentance throughout your life with confession.

Another thing that Jesus gave to us, when he sent the apostles out and gave them the power to either forgive sins or retain them. This is after Jesus's death and resurrection. John 20:22-23

All of us here will die, period. We find heaven after we die.

 

[Dave-W]

Peter was also taught by God something in Acts 10 about those God has cleansed he was not to call unclean. This was emphasized to him even 3 TIMES, so it was a highly important message designed to keep Peter on the straight and narrow path of truth.

A side issue.

 

[bcbsr]

Salvation is a process, it starts at baptism to be "born anew", and then we must continue that struggle all the way until our death, in hopes that we will be greeted into Heaven and live in paradise.

That's pretty much salvation by works. Seems what you're saying is that if a person works hard enough, ends up being a good enough Christians, he might just be saved in the end. Those who believe that are basically under the curse of the law. "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10 They view salvation as not attainable in this life, and thus the "hope" they have is simply wishful thinking, a hope of which is based on faith in themselves rather than putting their trust in Christ to take care of one's justification.

In contrast note Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Believe him or not.

 

[geiroffenberg]

the amount of spelling errors....

Well, excuse me, lol, but english is my third language. Maybe we should keep this in my scandinavian mother tongue, im sure you would spell it perfectly.

It is both the water and the Spirit in baptism that makes us born again.

1 Peter 3:21-22 " Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him."

that is the full quote of your verse.

This doesn't detract from what Jesus spoke in John 3:5

lol, i dont know what translation you quoted but the word "figure" seems to be missing. Which is an anti-type....as in a "type" ir a figure. corresponds is i guess good enough, but the translation words it in a way that it says baptism saves you, but it doesnt say that in other translations. It only states that in the figure, the "type" of water baptism saves us, but it is not truugh the water itself but trough the resurection of christ as stated better in finst KJV.

 

[JacksBratt]

Once again, the rule that we Christians have been given by Jesus is to be baptized, otherwise we cannot enter the kingdom of God.

That doesn't mean that God has to obey this rule, and He can save anybody.

Yep, He saved me.

 

[Neogaia777]

Which is why baptism should be able to be available and offered with any sermon or preaching for example... For when such ones feel so convicted that they greatly desire to repent and they should be able to "seal the deal" right then and there with a baptism on the spot... (This is how John the Baptist did it.)

Then you would have an "act" to solidify and be able to remember that act as a very deeply meaningful act of repenting to you personally... Separating the two is probably why baptism and repentance seem to not be as successful as they used to be...

Especially with good, effective preaching, where people throw their hands up in the air, and say "What?, What are we to do...?" Then you can say "repent" and seal the deal with the act of being baptized, right now... While the iron is hot, so to speak...

Probably be much more effective than say, an atypical "altar call"...

God Bless!

Personally, I find it incredibly frustrating that I cannot be baptized RIGHT NOW, while the iron is hot...

I am or have currently done away with my old sinful ways, but, I am worried that if I don't get baptized "right now" that I won't have a significant meaningful act to seal the deal, and am wondering, that if the iron cools, I will slip back into some of my old ways, or having to wait, will make my baptism meaningless and insignificant...

Baptism should be able to be spontaneous, not having to be scheduled, and, I do not currently belong to a specific church, but, am looking at and trying different ones, and I find it very frustrating, that I will probably have to attend regularly for a lengthy period of time and jump through all the religious hoops and not to mention theological SAT's to even be able to do it...

That is not what it is supposed to be like... Very frustrating...

God Bless!

 

[sdowney717]

Well, if that is the case, the peter was wrong, because cornelius house all received the one spirit without being baptized by any apostle.

Of course, to deny this you then have to construct a doctrine about the spirit upon you and within you to deny that this happenes, and not just rely on the "one baptism" and the "one spirit" and the only promise that the spirit would be poured out on all flesh.... and then that understanding of conrelius house only makes sense to a person that belives in such a doctrine,.

It was something Peter said was it not?

Peter had to be rebuked by Paul did he not?

Did Peter learn, yes he did. Do we know all truth even a young apostle can be corrected.

What Peter says in his letter differs dramatically in how he said what he did in acts 2
He never mentions water baptism here regarding being saved.

1 Peter 1New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting to the Elect Pilgrims
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:

Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

A Heavenly Inheritance
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

 

[geiroffenberg]

Concider a evanglistic message like this given to the greeks for the first time:

"
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained;"

What a evil message from Paul if it is true that salvation somehow must come trough the water. Did he forget to metion it? Or did he purposedly withhold it as he didnt like greeks and didnt want to see them in heaven?

Or is it maybe that it isnt about water at all, but about the one thing god commans all men every where: to repent.

 

[miknik5]

Peter received the Spirit within in John 20.22. He recieved it UPON in Acts 2.

BTW - there is no room in the narrow streets of Jerusalem's residences (where the upper room is located) for thousands to have heard Peter preach.

They were told to wait in the upper room for the promise of THE FATHER

Are you saying John's account of CHRIST breathing into HIS DISCIPLES was a separate event from the Pentecost?


CHRIST died during the Passover. Yes?

When is Pentecost?

 

[Wolf_Says]

That's pretty much salvation by works. Seems what you're saying is that if a person works hard enough, ends up being a good enough Christians, he might just be saved in the end. Those who believe that are basically under the curse of the law. "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." Gal 3:10 They view salvation as not attainable in this life, and thus the "hope" they have is simply wishful thinking, a hope of which is based on faith in themselves rather than putting their trust in Christ to take care of one's justification.

In contrast note Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

Believe him or not.

Enough with the "believe him or not." at the very end of your posts. It sounds very demanding.

Our salvation is a process, period. Through faith and works. Why do you hate the term works?

James 2:14-26 clearly states that our faith needs works, otherwise it is dead.

We are shown apart by ours works Matthew 25:31-26

We also need faith, otherwise our works are dead, Hebrews 11:6.

 

[miknik5]

A side issue.

A side issue

GOD telling Peter not to call unclean what HE HAS MADE CLEAN?

how is that a side issue

 

[geiroffenberg]

Baptism should be able to be spontaneous, not having to be scheduled

Sorry to say that while this was possible by jordan river, this is not possible in many parts of the world. Trust me, i come from the msot nothern country in the world, you do NOT want to jump in the nearest river, because youll either freeze to death, that is ef you can even get trough the ice...also, nomadic tribes in the desert have no water to jump in. But luckily, paul never tells us baptism is how we "seal the deal" its by faith, if you have faith no water is needed. If we dont have fraith, no am out of water can change that. It just wont help anything.

This is why one of the most effective evanglistic movements in modern history refused to baptize people, because it confused the gospel. The salvation army never water baptized converts.

 

[Neogaia777]

Enough with the "believe him or not." at the very end of your posts. It sounds very demanding.

Our salvation is a process, period. Through faith and works. Why do you hate the term works?

James 2:14-26 clearly states that our faith needs works, otherwise it is dead.

We are shown apart by ours works Matthew 25:31-26

We also need faith, otherwise our works are dead, Hebrews 11:6.

The only reason we are not to consider another man's works as a show of his or her faith, is, because, one, we cannot judge or determine anything at all by another man's works as far as his faith goes, only God and that individual is the only one(s) who know(s) and can, we cannot...

And, two, some can appear to have many good works, but they can apart from and be out of not any real, true genuine faith, and only God and that individual knows for sure, we cannot...

 

[Dave-W]

They were told to wait in the upper room for the promise of THE FATHER

No. Stop misquoting scripture.

Acts 1.4 Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Where does it say any specific room?

 

[sdowney717]

Enough with the "believe him or not." at the very end of your posts. It sounds very demanding.

Our salvation is a process, period. Through faith and works. Why do you hate the term works?

James 2:14-26 clearly states that our faith needs works, otherwise it is dead.

We are shown apart by ours works Matthew 25:31-26

We also need faith, otherwise our works are dead, Hebrews 11:6.

We are saved by Christ's works, not our own works.
This is actually a fundamental doctrine of God.

Ephesians 2New King James Version (NKJV)
By Grace Through Faith
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.