Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[TheSeabass]

But you are putting the command to baptize as being incumbent on the new believer; when scripture puts it on the evangelist.

You are making the baby christian responsible for the irresponsibility of the evangelist.

Is that right? Is that God? I don't think so.

Peter was the evangelist in Acts 2 and he put the command to repent and be baptized upon those that believed his gospel message. No such thing as proxy baptism where Peter(evangelist) is baptized for someone else.

 

[Dave-W]

Can you by baptizing with water either bring on or deter THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Of course not. That is not what water baptism is all about.

 

[miknik5]

But you are putting the command to baptize as being incumbent on the new believer; when scripture puts it on the evangelist.

You are making the baby christian responsible for the irresponsibility of the evangelist.

Is that right? Is that God? I don't think so.

No man can either deter or bring on the HOLY SPIRIT but GOD

The work of any believer is to preach THE GOSPEL

 

[geiroffenberg]

when it talks about baptism in matt 28, remember that to be baptized "into" the name of the father son and holy spirit does not take water. But you can definitly be dunked into some water without being grafted (or baptized) into the trinity. So, its getting into christ that matters, not getting into water.

 

[Dave-W]

but then he experienced that the house of cornelius received the holy spirit without any water baptism,

You are mistaking the Holy Spirit Upon (which happened to the disciples in Acts 2) and Holy Spirit Within (which happened to the disciples in Acts 1. Regeneration occurs with the indwelling of the Spirit. Cornelius et al exhibited Spirit Upon.

 

[miknik5]

Of course not. That is not what water baptism is all about.

Exactly

What is water baptism about but obedience to doing what we are called to do outwardly

But if one doesnt believe no amount of water baptism can make one clean unless God makes clean through faith in HIS SON


We ARE WASHED
And that wasn't through water baptism

It was through faith in HIS WORK of washing by HIS BLOOD and bringing through THAT BAPTISM. Baptized into HIs death and risen in HIM in the newness of life. A new creation in CHRIST

 

[geiroffenberg]

You are mistaking the Holy Spirit Upon (which happened to the disciples in Acts 2) and Holy Spirit Within (which happened to the disciples in Acts 1. Regeneration occurs with the indwelling of the Spirit. Cornelius et al exhibited Spirit Upon.

No i dont, becuase peter did only say as response to the seekers in jerusalem "repent and be baptized and you will also receive the holy spirit" He did not make this difference anywhere that you make, it was only talking about "one spirit" and "one baptism" as also paul confirms in his teaching (ef 4)
This was also the point that peter made at cornelius house, since they already had received the holy spirit with signs, he couldnt then deny these gentiles the water.

 

[miknik5]

You are mistaking the Holy Spirit Upon (which happened to the disciples in Acts 2) and Holy Spirit Within (which happened to the disciples in Acts 1. Regeneration occurs with the indwelling of the Spirit. Cornelius et al exhibited Spirit Upon.

Peter also experienced spirit upon when he immediately left the upper room and began to preach. Peter was sanctified yes by the in dwelling SPIRIT but his sanctification ( just as any believer) is an ongoing work by THE SANCTIFIER who leads us and teaches us

 

[Dave-W]

when it talks about baptism in matt 28, remember that to be baptized "into" the name of the father son and holy spirit does not take water. But you can definitly be dunked into some water without being grafted (or baptized) into the trinity. So, its getting into christ that matters, not getting into water.

Not so. Baptism (immersion, mikvah) ALWAYS requires water unless SPECIFICALLY stated otherwise.

The idea of immersion was not some new doctrine going into a vacuum. It was well known. On the temple mount (where 3000 were baptized in Acts 2) there were HUNDREDS of baptsmal pools. They were used on a daily basis.

 

[geiroffenberg]

Not so. Baptism (immersion, mikvah) ALWAYS requires water unless SPECIFICALLY stated otherwise.

The idea of immersion was not some new doctrine going into a vacuum. It was well known. On the temple mount (where 3000 were baptized in Acts 2) there were HUNDREDS of baptsmal pools. They were used on a daily basis.

That is the jewsih tradition. AS the gospel went to the gentiles, even Paul said "i am not sent to baptize"...but he was still baptizing people into christ, the only real baptism. Even Jesus himself did not baptize in water, but his guys seemed to do alright anyway, so take it up with him lol

 

[miknik5]

Peter was the evangelist in Acts 2 and he put the command to repent and be baptized upon those that believed his gospel message. No such thing as proxy baptism where Peter(evangelist) is baptized for someone else.

Proxy baptism?

 

[sdowney717]

Salvic, as in for salvation? Simple, because it goes hand in hand with John 3:5, where Jesus states that "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

The apostles were baptized, and then were given the power by Jesus to go and baptize others, in both water and spirit.

I fail to see how this is still a discussion when the answer is right there in black and white.

What is that water though, not physical washing of the body that saves, but a spiritual washing done by the Holy Spirit.
A baptism by God in Christ in God, he that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
But if you do not believe, then damned.

Jesus is the one who baptizes you with the Holy Spirit, that is the baptism that saves you.

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus clearly said this too, and no baptism is mentioned at all.

John 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Paul said this too about baptism.
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

So what are you going to believe?

 

[miknik5]

Not so. Baptism (immersion, mikvah) ALWAYS requires water unless SPECIFICALLY stated otherwise.

The idea of immersion was not some new doctrine going into a vacuum. It was well known. On the temple mount (where 3000 were baptized in Acts 2) there were HUNDREDS of baptsmal pools. They were used on a daily basis.

Is this one if the seven methods of baptism you mentioned?

What are the other 6

You do realize that all these baptisms are done by men and that unless GOD baptizes, it's still just an outward symbol of something that should have already occurred by GOD

Faith in JESUS CHRIST
Faith in HIM for salvation

 

[Neogaia777]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

When it is laid upon your conscience or heart in your walk with the Lord, you should seek to do it then...

Whether or not it is required for salvation, would be between that individual and God, cause for some, it might be (by God), and perhaps, others, not so much...

The short answer is "we do not know?", cause it is an individual case by case basis, between that person and God alone...

And we cannot know that except for our own selves and even then it is difficult to know for sure or not...

When it is laid upon your conscience or heart in your walk with the Lord, you should seek to do it then and at that time...

God Bless!

 

[Dave-W]

No i dont, becuase peter did only say as response to the seekers in jerusalem "repent and be baptized and you will receive the holy spirit"

Acts 2.38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That was Peter discharging HIS OWN RESPONSIBILITY in the baptizmal issue. He is NOT his transferring the responsibility to someone else. He is telling those who are responding to the gospel that they are to submit to being baptized by the apostles.

 

[geiroffenberg]

The whole problem lies in the statement "repent and be baptized". We think of it as two things. But in jewish thinking, it is the same thing, it was called "the baptism of repentance", and john the baptiser was the first to bring the real meaning of it.

SO since we break it up into two things, this is true for us, you can definitly be baptised in water and NOT have repented, rendering the gospel useless to you. You can, like so many in the new testament, repent and NOT be baptized and by that fulfil the requirement to receive the gospel for yourself. Even if youre not baptized in water, you are still baptized into the death and resurection of christ (as in romans 6) and that is waht matters. There is no water in the world that can do this.

 

[Dave-W]

Is this one if the seven methods of baptism you mentioned?
What are the other 6

Yes Christian water baptism is one of the 7.

They are:

John's water baptism
Christian water baptism
baptized in/of/with/into the Holy Spirit
baptism in fire
baptism in suffering
baptized into the body
baptized for the dead.

 

[Dave-W]

But in jewish thinking, it is the same thing, it was called "the baptism of repentance", and john the baptiser was the first to bring the real meaning of it.

But according to Acts 19, John's baptism was no longer valid.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Unscriptural. It violates 1 Jn 5.13:

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Read the rest of the book leading up to that verse. It is about knowing IN THIS LIFE that we are saved.

The NT says we HAVE BEEN SAVED, that we are BEING SAVED, and in the future we will BE SAVED.

My pastor describes it this way: we have been saved from the penalty of sin, we are being saved from the temptation of sin and we in the future will be saved from the very presence of sin. I have heard other similes as well, but this one works as well as any I have heard.

Do you realize how many points in the Bible that talks about how to get to heaven, and how alot of them are different?

Baptism - John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21-22
Eucharist - John 6:52-59
Forgiven others - Matthew 6:14-15
Keeping the commandments - Matthew 19:16-22
Strive for holiness - Hebrews 12:14

There is alot we have to do in order to get into heaven. And we must continue to every day of our lives.

Salvation is a process, as you pointed out, in (are saved) Romans 8:24, being saved in 1 Corinthians 1:18, and will be saved in Romans 5:9-10

That process starts when we are "born again" through baptism, John 3:3-5, and continues until the day we die.

 

[geiroffenberg]

That was Peter discharging HIS OWN RESPONSIBILITY in the baptizmal issue. He is NOT his transferring the responsibility to someone else. He is telling those who are responding to the gospel that they are to submit to being baptized by the apostles.

Well, if that is the case, the peter was wrong, because cornelius house all received the one spirit without being baptized by any apostle.

Of course, to deny this you then have to construct a doctrine about the spirit upon you and within you to deny that this happenes, and not just rely on the "one baptism" and the "one spirit" and the only promise that the spirit would be poured out on all flesh.... and then that understanding of conrelius house only makes sense to a person that belives in such a doctrine,.