Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[Wolf_Says]

What is that water though, not physical washing of the body that saves, but a spiritual washing done by the Holy Spirit.
A baptism by God in Christ in God, he that believes and is baptized shall be saved.
But if you do not believe, then damned.

Jesus is the one who baptizes you with the Holy Spirit, that is the baptism that saves you.

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus clearly said this too, and no baptism is mentioned at all.

John 5
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Paul said this too about baptism.
1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

So what are you going to believe?

Wha....? Nothing you said makes sense.

by "water and the Spirit" is clear as day, why do you guys try to over-complicate it??

Jesus said, John 3:5, and then specifically told the apostles to go and baptize in Matthew 28:19

It's not that hard to understand.....

 

[sdowney717]

Acts 2.38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

That was Peter discharging HIS OWN RESPONSIBILITY in the baptizmal issue. He is NOT his transferring the responsibility to someone else. He is telling those who are responding to the gospel that they are to submit to being baptized by the apostles.

Peter was also taught by God something in Acts 10 about those God has cleansed he was not to call unclean. This was emphasized to him even 3 TIMES, so it was a highly important message designed to keep Peter on the straight and narrow path of truth.

And later Peter acknowledges to the church that in Acts 11, God cleanses the heart by faith.
16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”

18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

Those gentiles were saved before Peter water baptizes them, and this the LORD did as an example to us for doctrine, that it is His mercy that saves us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit and not by physical water baptisms.

 

[bcbsr]

Where did this come from?? He is not talking about works, or anything of the sort. The OP asked strictly about is water baptism necessary, and the answer is yes.

The Bible clearly states that we are to be baptized and "born again" in water and spirit.

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Water baptism is a ceremonial work, and as such is separate from the sole requirement for salvation, namely faith.

In John 3 Jesus is contrasting the physical with the spiritual. Everyone is born in water - the amniotic fluid, which wikipedia notes: "The amniotic fluid, commonly called a pregnant woman's water"

To see the kingdom of God one must not only be physically born, but also born a second time - that by the Spirit.

 

[geiroffenberg]

But according to Acts 19, John's baptism was no longer valid.

Doesnt say its no longer valid, it just say they needed further instruction and then as baptized into christ. Definitly their udnerstanding was incomplete as they only had heard johns teaching.
But, yes, still its true the water baptism is no longer valid and so nother jesus nor paul baptized in water! (except i believe paul baptized one cpl that was jewish) people seem to miss this part!

 

[Neogaia777]

The whole problem lies in the statement "repent and be baptized". We think of it as two things. But in jewish thinking, it is the same thing, it was called "the baptism of repentance", and john the baptiser was the first to bring the real meaning of it.

SO since we break it up into two things, this is true for us, you can definitly be baptised in water and NOT have repented, rendering the gospel useless to you. You can, like so many in the new testament, repent and NOT be baptized and by that fulfil the requirement to receive the gospel for yourself.

Which is why baptism should be able to be available and offered with any sermon or preaching for example... For when such ones feel so convicted that they greatly desire to repent and they should be able to "seal the deal" right then and there with a baptism on the spot... (This is how John the Baptist did it.)

Then you would have an "act" to solidify and be able to remember that act as a very deeply meaningful act of repenting to you personally... Separating the two is probably why baptism and repentance seem to not be as successful as they used to be...

Especially with good, effective preaching, where people throw their hands up in the air, and say "What?, What are we to do...?" Then you can say "repent" and seal the deal with the act of being baptized, right now... While the iron is hot, so to speak...

Probably be much more effective than say, an atypical "altar call"...

God Bless!

 

[RaymondG]

The point of salvation is when we die, and are accepted into heaven. (Not going into the topic of purgatory here.) That is the 1 and only time when we know that we are saved.

There is no other time on earth when we know that we are saved. However, by following the teaches of Jesus, we can believe that we will be entering into heaven.

I use to believe this as well......which is why i still dont judge and say i KNOW the way........cant give specific directions to a place I've never been... This is what blind leading blind means.

But this is a very dangerous belief...as there is no repentance in the grave. I will find heaven before my body Dies.....after that, there will be no Death for Me. Then i will come and show others the Way.......and of course will be despised and rejected by most.

 

[TurtleAnne]

Well there is John 3:5

NIV: Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."
KJV: Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
ESV: Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

The water here might be referring to the water breaking of the womb that the pharisee was talking about right before that verse, though, I don't know.

However, I think it is also worth noting that a great deal of Jesus' teachings were focused on helping people understand the reason behind the laws/rules, so that people could have faith even when things seem confusing or even when it's not possible to do something just-so in black and white terms.

For example when it came to Jesus healing on the Sabbath, and the pharisees thought it was an opportunity to accuse Jesus (for working on the Sabbath), Jesus explained that if you do something out of love on the Sabbath, then it is not a sin, because God cares more about you being willing to show love for another than about following traditional rules. (Mark 3:1-6)

Similarly, the criminal being executed next to Jesus was unable to be baptized before he died, yet he confessed Jesus in front of everyone and was declared saved by Jesus. (Luke 23:39-43)

Many of these passages are meant to help people understand that God is perfectly reasonable and wise, and just like no human is going to be able to pull one over on God with some sort of human reasoned loophole, likewise God doesn't damn people if they tried their best but were unable to get things 100% perfect.

Jesus baptizes people with the Holy Spirit, whereas previously people were baptized with water only (Matthew 3:11). When in earnest you repent to Jesus, ask Him for forgiveness and accept Him as Lord of your life, then He baptizes you in the Holy Spirit. When Jesus did this to His disciples, it was described as Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit into them (John 20:22).

Being baptized in water is a symbolic, public declaration of your faith, and it goes very strongly with Matthew 10:32, "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven."

Now again, God is perfectly reasonable and wise. If you repent to Jesus, receive the Holy Spirit and confess Jesus before others, then you have been both baptized by Jesus Himself and have also confessed Jesus to others, and so like the thief being executed next to Jesus, you will have done what really mattered.

The thing about a water baptism is that it's a very intentional public confession of faith in Jesus, and so if you have the opportunity, then I think you definitely ought to go for it. But again, if you never have the opportunity, just be sure to confess Jesus to others, regardless.

I was baptized last Sunday morning along with some other people at a church that was offering a baptism service, and the pastor was trying so hard (like awkwardly so) to make it some super emotional, wild experience for everyone, but in my own mind I was just like nah I was baptized with the Holy Spirit quite some time ago, and that is when things are intense and emotional, when you are living life and going through crazy things at times, and you rely on the Holy Spirit and call on Jesus for guidance to get you through the storms. My baptism for me personally was pretty relaxed and happy, and I was just being obedient and confessing my faith in Jesus in front of a large crowd, dunked in the water, in and out and done. Very simple, not scary, no big pressure.

 

[geiroffenberg]

Wha....? Nothing you said makes sense.

by "water and the Spirit" is clear as day, why do you guys try to over-complicate it??

Jesus said, John 3:5, and then specifically told the apostles to go and baptize in Matthew 28:19

It's not that hard to understand.....

No, he has a valid point, if jesus di not baptize in water, neither paul in his churches, and if many verses talking about salvation does not mantion the need for water, then it would be evry evil of the scripture to "forget" that water must be included for the new birth.
But it all makes sense when we concider that there is only "one baptism" as paul says in ef 4. And this is the bapitms into "the fathr son and holy spirit", or as another translation of the word baotism is "greated" into the godhead. As paul expleins in romans 6, these peopl are all baptized into christ, and therefor all the promises of christ belongs to them, but its not becuase of any water, its because they are immiresed into christ, the "only" baptism. SO its only confusion of we overlook these statemens in the new testament.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Water baptism is a ceremonial work, and as such is separate from the sole requirement for salvation, namely faith.

In John 3 Jesus is contrasting the physical with the spiritual. Everyone is born in water - the amniotic fluid, which wikipedia notes: "The amniotic fluid, commonly called a pregnant woman's water"

To see the kingdom of God one must not only be physically born, but also born a second time - that by the Spirit.

IF water is simply a ceremonial work, why was Jesus baptized....? Why did he then go and command the apostles to baptize??

You people seriously over-complicate it. Jesus is clearly stating that we must be "born anew", and then clarifies saying "unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Water and the spirit. Clear as day.

 

[miknik5]

Water baptism is a ceremonial work, and as such is separate from the sole requirement for salvation, namely faith.

In John 3 Jesus is contrasting the physical with the spiritual. Everyone is born in water - the amniotic fluid, which wikipedia notes: "The amniotic fluid, commonly called a pregnant woman's water"

To see the kingdom of God one must not only be physically born, but also born a second time - that by the Spirit.

No one accepts 1 John 5 but that is exactly what is meant when it is said there are three that testify on earth: the water and the blood(natural man) and the spirit and these three agree in one (man reborn of GOD)

 

[geiroffenberg]

Which is why baptism should be able to be available and offered with any sermon or preaching for example... For when such ones feel so convicted that they greatly desire to repent and they should be able to "seal the deal" right then and there with a baptism on the spot... (This is how John the Baptist did it.)

Then you would have an "act" to solidify and be able to remember that act as a very deeply meaningful act of repenting to you personally... Separating the two is probably why baptism and repentance seem to not be as successful as they used to be...

Especially with good, effective preaching, where people throw their hands up in the air, and say "What?, What are we to do...?" Then you can say "repent" and seal the deal with the act of being baptized, right now... While the iron is hot, so to speak...

Probably be much more effective than say, an atypical "altar call"...

God Bless!

Yes, but still this is not how the apostle paul did it. He simply taught them that confessing christ in faith is enough. Of course he would be a horrible evil heretic if this wasnt true, lying to ppl that they didnt need water

 

[bcbsr]

Saving faith the NT speaks about includes baptism. If a person is not baptized then he does not have this saving faith. I know nothing about your personal life but I do know NT faith includes baptism.

And what of Cornelius and his household. When were they saved? When they received the Holy Spirit, if at that moment they died would then end up in heaven or hell? Were they not saved until after they got baptized?

Now the angel said to Cornelius, "Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved." Acts 11:13,14

People are not saved by some religious ceremony. They are saved by words, by putting their faith in the promise of God. Ceremonial salvation is much like what some preached that you have to be circumcised to be saved.

 

[Wolf_Says]

And what of Cornelius and his household. When were they saved? When they received the Holy Spirit, if at that moment they died would then end up in heaven or hell? Where they not saved until after they got baptized.

Now the angel said to Cornelius, "Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved." Acts 11:13,14

People are not saved by some religious ceremony. They are saved by words, by putting their faith in the promise of God. Ceremonial salvation is much like what some preached that you have to be circumcised to be saved.

They were all baptized by Peter.....it's right there is Acts 10: 46-48

 

[Dave-W]

No such thing as proxy baptism where Peter(evangelist) is baptized for someone else.

Who even suggested such a thing? That is ridiculous.

 

[geiroffenberg]

Remember this teaching from apostle peter 1 pe 3:21: the water saved noah and his family, and in the like figure water now saves us in baptism....IN FIGURE....which is not a putting of the filfthyness of flesh (so thats not happening)....but jsut an answer to a good concience towards god.

So we can deinfitly know that the water baotism is a FIGURE and not a literal happening, the true repentance happens within, not in the water, and there is no salvation of sin in the water, its still just a figure of a burial and a resirection, the true burial and resurection happens in christ, and no water can add to taht.

 

[Wolf_Says]

And what of Cornelius and his household. When were they saved? When they received the Holy Spirit, if at that moment they died would then end up in heaven or hell? Were they not saved until after they got baptized?

Now the angel said to Cornelius, "Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved." Acts 11:13,14

People are not saved by some religious ceremony. They are saved by words, by putting their faith in the promise of God. Ceremonial salvation is much like what some preached that you have to be circumcised to be saved.

Salvation is a process, it starts at baptism to be "born anew", and then we must continue that struggle all the way until our death, in hopes that we will be greeted into Heaven and live in paradise.

See my other post of all the different ways Jesus mentions what we must do to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[geiroffenberg]

They were all baptized by Peter.....it's right there is Acts 10: 46-48

the point is of course that its is a proof that baptism happened after they received the spirit, and since ppeter in his gospel literally connected repentance as reqiurement to receive the spirit, they must have fulfilled all commands of repentance and thereby received the spirit, before any water was applied. The hole spirit didnt care that there was no water, he didnt wain on peter to baptise them

 

[bcbsr]

They were all baptized by Peter.....it's right there is Acts 10: 46-48

Because they were saved or in order to get saved? Acts 10 and 11 indicate the former. That they were saved upon receiving the Holy Spirit, having put faith in the message.

 

[Dave-W]

Peter also experienced spirit upon when he immediately left the upper room and began to preach. Peter was sanctified yes by the in dwelling SPIRIT but his sanctification ( just as any believer) is an ongoing work by THE SANCTIFIER who leads us and teaches us

Peter received the Spirit within in John 20.22. He recieved it UPON in Acts 2.

BTW - there is no room in the narrow streets of Jerusalem's residences (where the upper room is located) for thousands to have heard Peter preach.

 

[geiroffenberg]

I think i follow Paul in this, if thats ok with you all:
"1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you"