Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[Dave-W]

You believe that Jesus was saying to just that 1 person you alone cannot enter heaven without baptism? That's pretty messed up.

No, it is for all of us. As Jesus stated once again in Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

Jesus wanted us to be baptized. Plain and simple.

You misunderstood what I was saying.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ..."

Who is that addressed to - the evangelist or the new convert?

 

[Dave-W]

A work that God does, not we do.
That work of God is why you believe in Christ.

[shaking head] You do not understand what I am saying.
People have (inappropriately) used that verse to say that faith is a work and therefore is excluded from being saved.
[/shaking head]

 

[Wolf_Says]

You misunderstood what I was saying.

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ..."

Who is that addressed to - the evangelist or the new convert?

That is to the apostles, who then went out and baptized new followers of Jesus. We are the ones who are baptized.

I'm not going to go into who can/can't baptize, simply the answer to your question is, that particular quote was directed at the apostles.

The quote from before-hand was directed to everybody. Primarily Nicodemus since he was physically the one Jesus was talking too, however that command is directed towards all of us as we all want to get into the kingdom of heaven correct?

 

[RaymondG]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

It depends on what you mean by "saved." Are you talking about the salvation of Jesus, which is permanent.....Or the Salvation of the religious....which only saves up until your next sin and depends on following a certain number of rules until you die....

 

[Dave-W]

That is to the apostles, who then went out and baptized new followers of Jesus. We are the ones who are baptized.

Correct. The onus is on the evangelist who spreads the gospel to baptize new believers; and NOT on the new believer.

How can it be salvic if the command was not addressed to the new believer?

 

[Wolf_Says]

Correct. The onus is on the evangelist who spreads the gospel to baptize new believers; and NOT on the new believer.

How can it be salvic if the command was not addressed to the new believer?

Salvic, as in for salvation? Simple, because it goes hand in hand with John 3:5, where Jesus states that "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

The apostles were baptized, and then were given the power by Jesus to go and baptize others, in both water and spirit.

I fail to see how this is still a discussion when the answer is right there in black and white.

 

[RaymondG]

Where did this come from?? He is not talking about works, or anything of the sort. The OP asked strictly about is water baptism necessary, and the answer is yes.

The Bible clearly states that we are to be baptized and "born again" in water and spirit.

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Sounds pretty clear to me.

Is it clear? would you believe the water part was in a river or tub if you had never been taught that? nevertheless you could be right.

What is the born of water, was the natural birth from the womb (my water broke) And the spiritual birth was a birth in spirit....too supernatural to be explained in words of men.?

 

[Dave-W]

John 3:5, where Jesus states that "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

That can also mean born naturally (with the mom's water breaking) and born of the spirit. He is talking to Nick who asked about climbing back into his mother. Clearly Nick understood that "born again" was indicating a birth in addition to his own first natural birth.

Water - Spirit : Natural - Spiritual

And if baptism was taken to be the second birth - is the Spirit considered a third birth??

I think you are not getting the context of Jn 3.5.

 

[TheSeabass]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

Yes, Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 2:41; Acts 10:48; Romans 6:3-7; 1 Corinthians 1:12-13; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:27; Colossians 2:11-12; etc...


Eph 2:8-----------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Peter 3:11-------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, then a NT saving faith must include baptism.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Is it clear? would you believe the water part was in a river or tub if you had never been taught that? nevertheless you could be right.

What is the born of water, was the natural birth from the womb (my water broke) And the spiritual birth was a birth in spirit....too supernatural to be explained in words of men.?

Nice spin, but your wrong. Nicodemus even asked how a man could go back inside his mother's womb, and Jesus rebuked him saying " Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.c]">[c] 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’d]">[d] 8 The winde]">[e] blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with every one who is born of the Spirit.” John 3:5-8

You are trying to downplay the role of baptism in our salvation. If Jesus did not mean baptism in this, but meant natural birth, then why did Jesus go and become baptized by John in the river?

Matthew 3:13-17, and why after Jesus was baptized did God declare Jesus as his son when (of course) Jesus was His son since the very beginning of time?

It's simple, we are to be baptized "in water and spirit" or we cannot enter the kingdom of God.

 

[miknik5]

[/QUOTE]
an outward profession (before the world) of an inward profession (before GOD)

 

[Dave-W]

Yes,

Why would I be condemned to hell as an unbeliever, if after repenting and confessing faith in Jesus, (and I get killed) because the evangelist did not do his/her duty and teach me that I needed to be baptized?

I was in that position for almost 10 years.

 

[Dave-W]

an outward profession (before the world) of an inward profession (before GOD)

Actually it is a LOT more than that. It has supernatural implications.

 

[miknik5]

Your "answer" does not even begin to address what I said.

I don't have to address what you said

It isn't up to men

It's up to GOD

No amount of water at the hands of men can save if one does not believe

I can say that
But I can't say who it applies to

HE knows who will ascend and who will descend

Our work was to point to THE DOOR unto the kingdom of GOD FIRST AND FOREMOST

GOD washes
And the one who has been washed will not reject water baptism

 

[miknik5]

Actually it is a LOT more than that. It has supernatural implications.

I was actually trying to respond to Ken Rank's initial post to the OP but somehow I cut off his post

 

[Dave-W]

You are trying to downplay the role of baptism in our salvation. If Jesus did not mean baptism in this, but meant natural birth, then why did Jesus go and become baptized by John in the river?

The whole bible is NOT only about how to get saved. There are many things that are of great importance but are NOT salvic.

 

[miknik5]

Actually it is a LOT more than that. It has supernatural implications.

Sir. Did you want to discuss THE BAPTISM or water baptism?

I do know the difference

 

[Wolf_Says]

That can also mean born naturally (with the mom's water breaking) and born of the spirit. He is talking to Nick who asked about climbing back into his mother. Clearly Nick understood that "born again" was indicating a birth in addition to his own first natural birth.

Water - Spirit : Natural - Spiritual

And if baptism was taken to be the second birth - is the Spirit considered a third birth??

I think you are not getting the context of Jn 3.5.

I'm sorry, but you are the one not understanding the context.

There is no third birth. We are born again "in water AND spirit", not water, and then spirit. It must happen at the same time.

Why else would Jesus have been baptized by John? Or then command His apostles to go and baptize??

it is clear that Nicodemus did NOT understand Jesus, and was confused when Jesus said "born anew", so Jesus clarified saying "born of water and the Spirit.", this is not talking about natural birth.

What you are doing is trying to apply 21st century logic to these passages, and therefore completely misunderstanding them.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't have to address what you said

Then why did you seem to be replying to my post?

 

[TheSeabass]

Why would I be condemned to hell as an unbeliever, if after repenting and confessing faith in Jesus, (and I get killed) because the evangelist did not do his/her duty and teach me that I needed to be baptized?

I was in that position for almost 10 years.

NT belief includes baptism, so one has not believed until he has been baptized. The NT does not teach deathbed salvation.