Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

[Wolf_Says]

There were no spins or downplays in my response......I even said you could be right and only asked questions.

My apologies, I misread your post and jumped the gun.

In your post you wrote that Jesus said born of water and of spirit.... then references being born of flesh and spirit. It seems that maybe he should have made a third contrast with water baptism....instead he only mentioned two variations again.

Jesus says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." in response to Nicodemus saying "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

For our body is not what goes to heaven, but our soul. And to be born again, our soul must be born in "water and the Spirit.", this is baptism.

I'm surprised how so many people have made this so overly complicated.

 

[Dave-W]

Water baptism is very closely associated with salvation - is one of the salvic process steps, but cannot be defined as to the point of salvation.

Those steps are: (in no particular order)

Conviction of sin by the Holy spirit
Drawing by the Father
Hearing the Word of the Gospel
Believing the Gospel
Calling on the Name of the Lord
Repenting of sins
Confessing Jesus as Lord (i.e. to be obeyed)
Believing in the Resurrection
Receiving baptism


This is all one big package. I do not think that anyone can say that the Holy Spirit indwells us between steps 3 and 4, or between steps 4 and 5, or that we are not saved if we get the order wrong.

 

[TheSeabass]

..but cannot be defined as to the point of salvation.
.

Acts 2:38 water baptism is the point sins are remitted/salvation

 

[Wolf_Says]

Water baptism is very closely associated with salvation - is one of the salvic process steps, but cannot be defined as to the point of salvation.

Those steps are: (in no particular order)

Conviction of sin by the Holy spirit
Drawing by the Father
Hearing the Word of the Gospel
Believing the Gospel
Calling on the Name of the Lord
Repenting of sins
Confessing Jesus as Lord (i.e. to be obeyed)
Believing in the Resurrection
Receiving baptism


This is all one big package. I do not think that anyone can say that the Holy Spirit indwells us between steps 3 and 4, or between steps 4 and 5, or that we are not saved if we get the order wrong.

The point of salvation is when we die, and are accepted into heaven. (Not going into the topic of purgatory here.) That is the 1 and only time when we know that we are saved.

There is no other time on earth when we know that we are saved. However, by following the teaches of Jesus, we can believe that we will be entering into heaven.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

I'm unsure, OP. I think water baptism is important in a Christian's life. I see both sides: baptism as a symbolic act and baptism regenerate us. I don't believe what one believes about baptism is as important as the act of baptism itself. I guess it's one of those matters of conscience things.

 

[Neogaia777]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

When it is laid upon your conscience or heart in your walk with the Lord, you should seek to do it then...

Whether or not it is required for salvation, would be between that individual and God, cause for some, it might be (by God), and perhaps, others, not so much...

The short answer is "we do not know?", cause it is an individual case by case basis, between that person and God alone...

And we cannot know that except for our own selves and even then it is difficult to know for sure or not...

When it is laid upon your conscience or heart in your walk with the Lord, you should seek to do it then and at that time...

God Bless!

 

[JoeP222w]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

No.

But if you are able to be water baptized, for what reason would you not be baptized if you are a follower of Jesus Christ?

Baptism is following in obedience to Jesus Christ. There is nothing supernatural or salvific about baptism. It is a symbolic sharing in the death and resurrection of Christ and public profession of faith. Nothing more than that.

 

[Maria.V.H]

No, i don´t think so, it´s just an symbolic act. What matters is if you believe, that´s the only thing that matters in my views. What about all the people who are baptized and confirmated and only does it because it´s tradition???? Here where i live, a lot of people do it for the tradition, not because they believe

 

[Wolf_Says]

The short answer is "we do not know?", cause it is an individual case by case basis, between that person and God alone...

Not what the bible says, John 3:5

Baptism is following in obedience to Jesus Christ. There is nothing supernatural or salvific about baptism. It is a symbolic sharing in the death and resurrection of Christ and public profession of faith. Nothing more than that.

Same as above, John 3:5

Sounds pretty clear that we need to be born of "water and the Spirit" or we cannot enter the kingdom of God, and getting into heaven is the meaning of salvation.

 

[miknik5]

Correct.

Wrong
You are looking to lower signs and symbols which were put in place to lead us to all the TRUTHS and REALITIES found in CHRIST JESUS

that is why it is said:

THE TESTIMONY of JESUS is THE SPIRIT of PROPHECY

Every word of scripture spoke of and pointed us to CHRIST

Yes sir all these things, these rituals and shadows and figures and lower representations have HIGHER HIDDEN SPIRITUAL (don't like the word "supernatural) SIGNIFICANCE

 

[JacksBratt]

And I will say it again. Those who believe will be water baptized. Those who don't believe won't. And some who don't believe will still be water baptized

But we are not to say who will ascend or descend. Romans 10 is sufficient. We are to preach faith in CHRIST JESUS

But The true confession upon the heart is what GOD sees or doesn't see...

Did the thief on the cross believe?
Was his belief sufficient to be saved?
Was he baptized?

Not all who believe will be baptized. I wasn't for 30 years or so.
I was still a God fearing born again Christian. I just had not been obedient to Christ in His command to be baptized.

Are you saying I was save at the time of my Baptism?

 

[TheSeabass]

Baptism is following in obedience to Jesus Christ.

....so if one is NOT baptized then he is not following Christ and is in disobedience/unrighteousness.

 

[Dave-W]

There is no other time on earth when we know that we are saved.

Unscriptural. It violates 1 Jn 5.13:

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Read the rest of the book leading up to that verse. It is about knowing IN THIS LIFE that we are saved.

The NT says we HAVE BEEN SAVED, that we are BEING SAVED, and in the future we will BE SAVED.

My pastor describes it this way: we have been saved from the penalty of sin, we are being saved from the temptation of sin and we in the future will be saved from the very presence of sin. I have heard other similes as well, but this one works as well as any I have heard.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Did the thief on the cross believe?
Was his belief sufficient to be saved?
Was he baptized?

Not all who believe will be baptized. I wasn't for 30 years or so.
I was still a God fearing born again Christian. I just had not been obedient to Christ in His command to be baptized.

Are you saying I was save at the time of my Baptism?

Once again, the rule that we Christians have been given by Jesus is to be baptized, otherwise we cannot enter the kingdom of God.

That doesn't mean that God has to obey this rule, and He can save anybody. The thief on the cross is an exception to the rule, and not the rule itself.

Nobody is saved until that die and get into Heaven. At that point, they are saved. Until that point? No, none of us are saved.

 

[Dave-W]

....so if one is NOT baptized then he is not following Christ and is in disobedience/unrighteousness.

But you are putting the command to baptize as being incumbent on the new believer; when scripture puts it on the evangelist.

You are making the baby christian responsible for the irresponsibility of the evangelist.

Is that right? Is that God? I don't think so.

 

[Dave-W]

Once again, the rule that we Christians have been given by Jesus is to be baptized,

The rule we have been given is to BAPTIZE. (not be baptized)

 

[miknik5]

My apologies, I misread your post and jumped the gun.



Jesus says "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." in response to Nicodemus saying "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

For our body is not what goes to heaven, but our soul. And to be born again, our soul must be born in "water and the Spirit.", this is baptism.

I'm surprised how so many people have made this so overly complicated.

CHRIST also refers to HIMSELF as LIVING WATER and HE washed HIS DISCIPLES and declared them clean

One will be water baptized but it is an outward sign symbolic of what should have already happened through GOD opening the eyes and ears of the heart to the TRUTH of HIS SON, that a man believes, repents and is healed

 

[miknik5]

The rule we have been given is to BAPTIZE. (not be baptized)

Can you by baptizing with water either bring on or deter THE HOLY SPIRIT?

 

[Dave-W]

One will be water baptized but it is an outward sign symbolic of what should have already happened through GOD opening the eyes and ears of the heart to the TRUTH of HIS SON

It is much more than that. Water baptism has supernatural consequences for the individual believer.

 

[geiroffenberg]

Is water baptism a requirment to be saved

no, as proven by the fact that peter said the holy spirit would be given to everyone that repents and by that recevies rightouesness, but then he experienced that the house of cornelius received the holy spirit without any water baptism, so its totally proven in scripture that water does not have anythign to do with salvation (or rightouesess) at all.