Is watching Mixed Martial Arts wrong?

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

I've been watching MMA for quite some time and do really enjoy the sport. That being said, as of late I've been wondering if watching such of a violent sport is wrong. For the most part I've cut out all violent movies in and TV shows in my life (but to be honest I didn't really watch that many to begin with.)

Just to give an idea as to what happens in MMA bouts for the novice I've put some gifs in the spoilers below.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

For me the passage comes to mind 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

My thought process is these men (and women) are destroying their bodies for this sport their temples. And yes some of these fighters are Christian (Vitor Belfort, Yoel Romero, and Dennis Hallman to name a few.) Romero even had a famous post-fight speech where he talked about Jesus.

That being said, I wonder if we're all hypocrites for either participating in or viewing the sport. Any thoughts?

Really, no. It is a technical sport. Obviously, if you are talking about a version where the rules are unhealthy, then that is not good to support. But you should not enjoy such a thing if you are right in the heart.

In normal, well regulated MMA that should not be the case.

That definitely is not defiling the body. What evil you think in your heart against your neighbor defiles your body. Not something you put in your mouth (or eyes or ears).

 

[Zatek]

Emotive reaction is the carnal urge to want to see a guy or girl get beaten up, and the worse, the better. Viewers cheer on who they want to see win, don't they? And winning is by the use of violence, is it not?

Furthermore, a participant wants personal victory by beating up someone else, right?

Is this too obvious for some people?

You make yourself look really stupid when you say such ignorant things. Nobody gets beat up in MMA. Hobbyists train 2-5 times a week, and professionals multiple times a day. You need years of consistent training to be a good fighter, and 10+ to be a great fighter. How do you figure people are getting 10 years of consistent training if they are getting "beat up" all the time?

MMA is not about beating people up, its about skill. I submit people who are 50-100 lbs heavier than mean because I have more skill than they do, and people who are smaller but more skilled have submitted me. And in both cases people go home uninjured. I've been training MMA for years and I've never seen or heard of anyone getting "beat up" while training.

Being able to fight is part of being a man. The Bible never shys away from violence for a righteous cause. Almost the entire Bible is Israel driving out evil nations, or Israel being driven out because they turned to evil. Violence is not inherently bad and is often necessary to defeat evil. Hitler didn't stop trying to conquer the world because we asked him not to nicely, it's because we defeated him. Violence isn't always the answer, but it is the answer sometimes, and in relative peace times like now a sport that is "violent" is perfectly moral and noble to participate in.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Georges St-Pierre and Quinton "Rampage" Jackson are two of my all-time favorite UFC fighters. Both have the conditioning, physical skills, mental skills, and heart of a champion. Both during their prime, brought an unprecedented level of strategy. One of my favorites from the Pride Championship days is easily Igor Vovchanchyn, his love and respect for his opponents and sport made a huge impression on me. Many if not most have tremendous respect for the sport, and in many instances it shows after a fight.

 

[ContraMundum]

You make yourself look really stupid when you say such ignorant things. Nobody gets beat up in MMA. Hobbyists train 2-5 times a week, and professionals multiple times a day. You need years of consistent training to be a good fighter, and 10+ to be a great fighter. How do you figure people are getting 10 years of consistent training if they are getting "beat up" all the time?

MMA is not about beating people up, its about skill. I submit people who are 50-100 lbs heavier than mean because I have more skill than they do, and people who are smaller but more skilled have submitted me. And in both cases people go home uninjured. I've been training MMA for years and I've never seen or heard of anyone getting "beat up" while training.

Being able to fight is part of being a man. The Bible never shys away from violence for a righteous cause. Almost the entire Bible is Israel driving out evil nations, or Israel being driven out because they turned to evil. Violence is not inherently bad and is often necessary to defeat evil. Hitler didn't stop trying to conquer the world because we asked him not to nicely, it's because we defeated him. Violence isn't always the answer, but it is the answer sometimes, and in relative peace times like now a sport that is "violent" is perfectly moral and noble to participate in.

Seriously? Sanctification is not found in martial arts. Nor is justification (unless of course one is justifying their own urges to fight- or watch people fight in your case). We're here to grow spiritually, get ourselves in order and correct our fallen nature through intimacy with God in prayer and in His means of grace. I don't think beating up people for prizes achieves that.

Anyway, I thought your post was quite a weak argument. Lots of conflation and references to national warfare just don't equate to violence for glory on tv.

 

[FireDragon76]

I used to watch a lot of boxing when I was younger but as I grew more spiritual, the thought of hurting another person for sport and money became sickening. Christianity is not about hurting others but instead about healing and up lifting.

I no longer watch boxing or several other sports. MMA is not about Martial Arts. It is about hurting an opponent and ego. None of this is about God.

May he bless you

I'm more or less the same way, I remember watching boxing with my grandpa when we visited him. He was a deacon in the Methodist church and a religious man, and at one time it was just a normal passtime for blue color men. Of course looking back now I realize it's a little creepy how my grandpa as a white man enjoyed watching two people, usually of color, pummeling each other.

I wouldn't say interest in MMA or boxing is exactly a sin, though. I think that's something you have to work about between you and God.

When I was younger I also studied alot of martial arts. It can be a good way to stay in shape, get in touch with your body, and discipline yourself. I'm just not so cool about the actual fighting bit. When you really study real self-defense, you realize fighting gets out of control quickly and even guys with guns have been killed by a drunk with something pointy. Brawling is a loser's activity.

I think the best self-defense is situational awareness, street smarts, trusting your instincts (a potentially dangerous encounter is not the place to be politically correct), a good pair of legs and running shoes.

Yoga has alot of the same benefits as martial arts without the focus on fighting. If you are OK with the spiritual aspects (which in the US, is usually minimal), it's an option.

 

[Yarddog]

I'm more or less the same way, I remember watching boxing with my grandpa when we visited him. He was a deacon in the Methodist church and a religious man, and at one time it was just a normal passtime for blue color men. Of course looking back now I realize it's a little creepy how my grandpa as a white man enjoyed watching two people, usually of color, pummeling each other.

I wouldn't say interest in MMA or boxing is exactly a sin, though. I think that's something you have to work about between you and God.

When I was younger I also studied alot of martial arts. It can be a good way to stay in shape, get in touch with your body, and discipline yourself. I'm just not so cool about the actual fighting bit. When you really study real self-defense, you realize fighting gets out of control quickly and even guys with guns have been killed by a drunk with something pointy. Brawling is a loser's activity.

I think the best self-defense is situational awareness, street smarts, trusting your instincts (a potentially dangerous encounter is not the place to be politically correct), a good pair of legs and running shoes.

Yoga has alot of the same benefits as martial arts without the focus on fighting. If you are OK with the spiritual aspects (which in the US, is usually minimal), it's an option.

I agree. I took Taekwondo as a teenager but remember that it wasn't about fighting another person as much as the discipline not to have to fight another person. Defending oneself or others is quite different from trying to dominate another person physically.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

You make yourself look really stupid when you say such ignorant things. Nobody gets beat up in MMA. Hobbyists train 2-5 times a week, and professionals multiple times a day. You need years of consistent training to be a good fighter, and 10+ to be a great fighter. How do you figure people are getting 10 years of consistent training if they are getting "beat up" all the time?

MMA is not about beating people up, its about skill. I submit people who are 50-100 lbs heavier than mean because I have more skill than they do, and people who are smaller but more skilled have submitted me. And in both cases people go home uninjured. I've been training MMA for years and I've never seen or heard of anyone getting "beat up" while training.

Being able to fight is part of being a man. The Bible never shys away from violence for a righteous cause. Almost the entire Bible is Israel driving out evil nations, or Israel being driven out because they turned to evil. Violence is not inherently bad and is often necessary to defeat evil. Hitler didn't stop trying to conquer the world because we asked him not to nicely, it's because we defeated him. Violence isn't always the answer, but it is the answer sometimes, and in relative peace times like now a sport that is "violent" is perfectly moral and noble to participate in.

I hate to reverse what you said back onto you but:
mma BLOOD - Google Search

People get beat in MMA. I've seen cuts, gashses, swollen eyes...etc. I've seen bodies covered in blood along with the floor. People get beat up. Its a step above boxing in terms of violence because at least in boxing they wear big gloves. I mean its not like people are getting beat to death of course, but people do take punishment and to many they love the fact they will see blood.

As for violence, MMA is not a righteous cause. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Even boxers later in life end up having brain issues from the beatings they take over time. BTW I am fine with MMA, just seems your making it out to be non-violent and possibly "ok" with God. Which reminds me I just finished watching the new Punisher series on Netflix. That show is violent, ultra violent. I doubt God would approve. Even more so since its a story of revenge killing.

 

[Jonathan Leo]

I've been watching MMA for quite some time and do really enjoy the sport. That being said, as of late I've been wondering if watching such of a violent sport is wrong. For the most part I've cut out all violent movies in and TV shows in my life (but to be honest I didn't really watch that many to begin with.)

Just to give an idea as to what happens in MMA bouts for the novice I've put some gifs in the spoilers below.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

For me the passage comes to mind 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

My thought process is these men (and women) are destroying their bodies for this sport their temples. And yes some of these fighters are Christian (Vitor Belfort, Yoel Romero, and Dennis Hallman to name a few.) Romero even had a famous post-fight speech where he talked about Jesus.

That being said, I wonder if we're all hypocrites for either participating in or viewing the sport. Any thoughts?

Hi there, MMA is not a martial art nor a sport. It is like boxing. It pays such athletes vast amounts of money to kick the s&@t out of each other. In return, the organisers of such bouts reap millions and millions of dollars. What makes athletes thrive to join these organisations is not the sport of it but rather the fame and fortune. Any one of these athletes that claim to be Christian, but sell out for the fame and money is no Christian at all. They are made out to be idols by the organisation and then they have the cheek to say their Christian?
It is true that there is violence and death in the bible but where the two differ is that fighting in biblical times was for the land of Israel and Gods chosen people. Since Jesus came and we are no longer Jew nor Gentile, we are all as one. The only fighting mentioned from the New Testament are the spiritual one that we must fight and Armageddon the fight between God and Satan, although this is no war at all for God already wins. We are not to be violent nor promote it.
Back to my point, Mma has really grown in the last ten years. We now have so many fighters and we also have so many of the sheep following them. These are like the footballers, the boxers, the musicians, the actors etc, all of which have a celebrity status. These are the worlds idols. They keep the sheep entertained whilst all the time keeping people from knowing who God truly is.
Since this world is satans kingdom, ask yourself why is it only such idols that make the vast amounts of money for their skills?? I believe it's because it's they that have the most influence over the masses of people.
Example. Since Conor mcgregor won in mama, nearly all of Ireland wants to be an mama fighter. Since the kardashians was wired on tv in Ireland, all the teenage girls spend tons of money on their very expensive products. They all want to have the (fake) beauty they have. These celebrities are nothing but idols who are made celebrities by the evil controlling this world in order to steal the true meaning of our existence---serving God and His kingdom.
So watching martial arts such as the ones in Asia where compitions are point based and there's hardly any money paid to champions and where there is no bloodshed is perfectly ok but nobody wants to watch that martial art. Instead people want to watch bloodshedding, bone breaking, barbaric brutalism and then talk about their idols and how they wish they had their lifestyle. MMA is just another scheme set up by Satan to keep the masses from knowing who the true God is. It saddens me when I hear teenagers and even worse, adults praising the likes of ronaldo or mcgregor as their God. God Bless,Jonathan

 

[FireDragon76]

Any martial art can give you a false sense of your capabilities. I remember reading in a self-defense book about how a guy had a black belt and he was ambushed at an elevator and asked to hand over his money. Tragically, he tried to do a hook kick on the robber's weapon hand, Chuck Norris style. He was killed with a single gunshot.

We had a family friend whose son had a similar story, he also was a martial artist. He actually chased down a guy with a gun who was leaving a restaurant after he robbed it. He was killed by the robber. It's really senseless and left a young woman a widow. All because he over-estimated the danger of the situation and his own abilities. It would have been better for this family if their son had never studied that stuff and been deluded.

Fear of violence is a necessarily healthy approach to the study of any martial art.

 

[lastofall]

The Word of God tells us to turn our eyes from evil; usually that is enough to be said, so that we are without excuse.

 

[Zatek]

I hate to reverse what you said back onto you but:
mma BLOOD - Google Search

People get beat in MMA. I've seen cuts, gashses, swollen eyes...etc. I've seen bodies covered in blood along with the floor. People get beat up. Its a step above boxing in terms of violence because at least in boxing they wear big gloves. I mean its not like people are getting beat to death of course, but people do take punishment and to many they love the fact they will see blood.

Minor cuts on the head often bleed heavily because the face and scalp have many bloodvessels close to the surface of the skin. Although this amount of bleeding may be alarming, many times the injury is not severe and the bleeding will stop with treatment you can do at home.

How to Stop Bleeding From a Head Wound-Topic Overview

Saying that MMA is violent because people sometimes get minor wounds that are treatable at home and heal within a day is about as alarmist as saying filing office paper work is a health hazard because sometimes you get paper cuts and they might get infected.

Also I am intrigued by your ability to read minds and magically know the motives of people who watch MMA. Can you explain how that works to us?

As for violence, MMA is not a righteous cause. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Even boxers later in life end up having brain issues from the beatings they take over time. BTW I am fine with MMA, just seems your making it out to be non-violent and possibly "ok" with God. Which reminds me I just finished watching the new Punisher series on Netflix. That show is violent, ultra violent. I doubt God would approve. Even more so since its a story of revenge killing.

I never said MMA is a righteous cause. MMA is a sport, it is neither good nor bad itself. I said that in peace time that participating in combats sports (so that you are ready for combat if the time is needed) is a moral and noble thing to do.

I agree about boxing, but that's because boxers take hits to the head, then get back up, take more, get back up, take more, etc, often many times before a match is over. In MMA if you are unconscious, dazed, or even if you're fine and have yet to be hit with a good punch but aren't making an attempt to escape a bad position the fight will be stopped and you lose. Trying to get one last punch or kick in after the match is called will get you immediately fined and disqualified.

I've never seen Punisher.

 

[Zatek]

Seriously? Sanctification is not found in martial arts. Nor is justification (unless of course one is justifying their own urges to fight- or watch people fight in your case). We're here to grow spiritually, get ourselves in order and correct our fallen nature through intimacy with God in prayer and in His means of grace. I don't think beating up people for prizes achieves that.

No one said anything about getting sanctification or justification through MMA.

Your response is also extremely ambiguous. Who is "we"? Where is "here"? Us on this forum?

Refer to my post your just responded to. No one is getting "beat up".

Anyway, I thought your post was quite a weak argument. Lots of conflation and references to national warfare just don't equate to violence for glory on tv.

Weak in what way? If people are getting "beat up" in MMA then show us some evidence. If my argument is weak then why not just provide some evidence to disprove it?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Saying that MMA is violent because people sometimes get minor wounds that are treatable at home and heal within a day is about as alarmist as saying filing office paper work is a health hazard because sometimes you get paper cuts and they might get infected.

Also I am intrigued by your ability to read minds and magically know the motives of people who watch MMA. Can you explain how that works to us?

Well that doesn't make much sense considering when your at work your paper doesn't attack you in a ring where you fight until the ref calls it or theres a knockout.

MMA is literally two skilled fighters (keyword being fighters) fight each other. As for my psychic abilities, its called psychology. Psychology tells us why "most" people tend to do what they do. There are always the minority of course who aren't the norm.

For example if you go to various sites (which I can't list due to rules) where you see death videos. Such as accidents, murders....etc. Where actual people die and you witness every gory second of it, 98% of the people who comment on those videos find death hilarious. They mock the dead. Trying to make puns out of everything. They watch it not out of curiosity or out of sadness. They watch it out of pure joy, its comedy to them.

Though to be fair in general we as humans tend to stare at accidents. When theres a crash on the freeway, most people drive by slowly gawking at the accident.

I never said MMA is a righteous cause. MMA is a sport, it is neither good nor bad itself. I said that in peace time that participating in combats sports (so that you are ready for combat if the time is needed) is a moral and noble thing to do.

Well technically before MMA and UFC and all these sports got more "professional", death was something that happened often enough that long ago people seen MMA and UFC matches as a disgusting thing where people tended to fight to the death at times. Often with very serious injuries.

Though today not many know of the origins of these things.

 

[Sketcher]

I hate to reverse what you said back onto you but:
mma BLOOD - Google Search

People get beat in MMA. I've seen cuts, gashses, swollen eyes...etc. I've seen bodies covered in blood along with the floor. People get beat up. Its a step above boxing in terms of violence because at least in boxing they wear big gloves. I mean its not like people are getting beat to death of course, but people do take punishment and to many they love the fact they will see blood.

And the contenders know this going in and keep going back to it. Fighting is literally fun to them. Yet, many of them show nothing but sportsmanship and respect for each other after the fight is over. A lot of people who don't fight don't have enough grace in their hearts to do that.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

No swords or any other weapons in MMA, I don't think that applies here.

 

[ContraMundum]

No one said anything about getting sanctification or justification through MMA.

Your response is also extremely ambiguous. Who is "we"? Where is "here"? Us on this forum?

Christians. We're here to pursue righteousness.

Refer to my post your just responded to. No one is getting "beat up".

Yes they are. MMA is not pillow fighting.

Weak in what way? If people are getting "beat up" in MMA then show us some evidence. If my argument is weak then why not just provide some evidence to disprove it?

I think the other posters on this thread have done a great job at answering this already.

 

[Zatek]

Christians. We're here to pursue righteousness.

Which means what? No one is allowed to have hobbies or leisure time? Your argument is extremely vague, what do you define "pursuing righteousness" as?

Yes they are. MMA is not pillow fighting.

Posting on a forum is not pillow fighting either, did you get beat up while posting this? Are you claiming that everything that isn't pillow fighting involves people getting beat up? Your argument is unclear.

I think the other posters on this thread have done a great job at answering this already.

No they haven't. They've done a laughable job. They claim people get "beat up", but obviously they don't because they go home from training everyday unwounded and uninjured and train again the next day. They claim MMA is a bloody sport, and I quoted WebMD where minor head wounds can bleed but are easily treatable at home with no medical training.

You have no argument, only excuses about why you don't have an argument.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Which means what? No one is allowed to have hobbies or leisure time? Your argument is extremely vague, what do you define "pursuing righteousness" as?

Posting on a forum is not pillow fighting either, did you get beat up while posting this? Are you claiming that everything that isn't pillow fighting involves people getting beat up? Your argument is unclear.

No they haven't. They've done a laughable job. They claim people get "beat up", but obviously they don't because they go home from training everyday unwounded and uninjured and train again the next day. They claim MMA is a bloody sport, and I quoted WebMD where minor head wounds can bleed but are easily treatable at home with no medical training.

You have no argument, only excuses about why you don't have an argument.

Sounds to me like your statements apply to you really. As with most people who are heavily biased towards something, when they are corrected they turn to "I know you are but what am I!" type responses. Also did you know people involved in MMA have a 50% higher domestic violence issue? So weird for a sport that has no one getting beat up.

 

[ContraMundum]

Which means what? No one is allowed to have hobbies or leisure time? Your argument is extremely vague, what do you define "pursuing righteousness" as?

Posting on a forum is not pillow fighting either, did you get beat up while posting this? Are you claiming that everything that isn't pillow fighting involves people getting beat up? Your argument is unclear.

No they haven't. They've done a laughable job. They claim people get "beat up", but obviously they don't because they go home from training everyday unwounded and uninjured and train again the next day. They claim MMA is a bloody sport, and I quoted WebMD where minor head wounds can bleed but are easily treatable at home with no medical training.

You have no argument, only excuses about why you don't have an argument.

If you don't know what pursuing righteousness means, then really, you need to get your spiritual house in order, brother. It's no wonder that you would fail to see the negativity of violence for entertainment.

 

[Zatek]

If you don't know what pursuing righteousness means, then really, you need to get your spiritual house in order, brother. It's no wonder that you would fail to see the negativity of violence for entertainment.

You're just making excuses again. If you can't define what you mean by "pursuing righteousness" then how can I? I can't read your mind.

Also, what is wrong with violence? Violence has no inherent moral implication on it's own. Lots of good and righteous things involved violence. Defeating the NAZIs in WWII. Defeating the south in the Civil War to end slavery. God helping Israel destroy the nations in the promised land because of their evil, such as child sacrifice. God drowning the Egyptians as they tried to chase Israel through the parted sea.

Sounds to me like your statements apply to you really. As with most people who are heavily biased towards something, when they are corrected they turn to "I know you are but what am I!" type responses. Also did you know people involved in MMA have a 50% higher domestic violence issue? So weird for a sport that has no one getting beat up.

I never said anything that amounts to "I know you are but what am I". I simply pointed out how asinine his argument is. His argument is "people who participate in MMA get beat up because MMA isn't pillow fighting". You know what also isn't pillow fighting? Posting on forums on the internet. Making logical arguments. If you are against participating in things that aren't pillow fighting then perhaps you should give up on those as well as you clearly aren't very good at them. Correlation is not causation and is just another irrelevant fact unless you can prove that MMA causes domestic violence.

 

[ContraMundum]

You're just making excuses again. If you can't define what you mean by "pursuing righteousness" then how can I? I can't read your mind.

I don't want you to read my mind- I want you to read your BIBLE. Prayer, word, sacrament, good deeds- these are the pursuit of righteousness.

Also, what is wrong with violence? Violence has no inherent moral implication on it's own. Lots of good and righteous things involved violence. Defeating the NAZIs in WWII. Defeating the south in the Civil War to end slavery. God helping Israel destroy the nations in the promised land because of their evil, such as child sacrifice. God drowning the Egyptians as they tried to chase Israel through the parted sea.

If God commands us to go to war (as He once did), then of course it is the legitimate use for violent force. Likewise if He sees fit to destroy Pharaoh's army- that's His work (not ours).

But Jesus nowhere gives His apostles or disciples the commandment to use weapons, make war, use violence for entertainment or even physical training. Not once. OTOH, he asks us to be gentile as lambs, and to turn the other cheek. He wants us to be *different* from the world and its standards. I know that sounds hard for people who love to feast their eyes on violence and fighting for entertainment, but you have to stand apart from the world, not blend in and try to give worldliness a Christian spin or flavor.

I once saw a Christian MMA fighter thank God for his victory in the octagon. I considered it one of the least Christian things I had ever seen, not to mention the confused, mixed-up message that it sends. "I punched a guy and kicked him and tried to hurt him enough to make him submit to defeat for entertainment and personal glory- now I'll thank Jesus for that". Beating up someone for Jesus. Seriously? How idiotic and carnal- and unChristian. Stunning hypocrisy, actually.

If Christianity is too peaceful or pacifist for you- then try Islam. You get to kill, fight, oppress, you don't have to change your heart, you can keep your worldliness, idolize strength, submission and personal glory, and you still get to pretend you're serving God. You can be carnal and violent and fit right in.

Jesus didn't beat up on people for personal glory, money or victory, nor did His Apostles. I say yes to what Jesus says yes to, and no to what He says no to. That's the beginning of the pursuit of righteousness.