Is watching Mixed Martial Arts wrong?

[Sketcher]

I once saw a Christian MMA fighter thank God for his victory in the octagon. I considered it one of the least Christian things I had ever seen, not to mention the confused, mixed-up message that it sends. "I punched a guy and kicked him and tried to hurt him enough to make him submit to defeat for entertainment and personal glory- now I'll thank Jesus for that". Beating up someone for Jesus. Seriously? How idiotic and carnal- and unChristian. Stunning hypocrisy, actually.

Oh, so you watched a match then?

 

[Zatek]

I don't want you to read my mind- I want you to read your BIBLE. Prayer, word, sacrament, good deeds- these are the pursuit of righteousness.

I have read the Bible, numerous times, but you're the one posting here so you're just making excuses if you won't say what you mean.

If God commands us to go to war (as He once did), then of course it is the legitimate use for violent force. Likewise if He sees fit to destroy Pharaoh's army- that's His work (not ours).

But Jesus nowhere gives His apostles or disciples the commandment to use weapons, make war, use violence for entertainment or even physical training. Not once. OTOH, he asks us to be gentile as lambs, and to turn the other cheek. He wants us to be *different* from the world and its standards. I know that sounds hard for people who love to feast their eyes on violence and fighting for entertainment, but you have to stand apart from the world, not blend in and try to give worldliness a Christian spin or flavor.

Saying Jesus never gave a commandment to physically train does not equate to it being sinful. Most forms of entertainment people participate in are never addressed by Jesus, that doesn't mean they are sinful. Jesus never tells his disciples to go scuba diving. Are scuba divers sinners?

And you talk about reading the Bible but you are confused yourself about what it says. There is no where that says "gentile as lambs" or "gentle as sheep". I can guess that you are maybe referring to Matthew 10, so maybe you should go read it again.

Turning the other cheek has nothing to do with sports or violence. Jesus gives other examples to illustrate the point he is making, such as if someone sues you, if you are forced to go a mile, or if someone wants to borrow from you. None of those have anything to do with sports or violence or pacifism. Even the turning of the cheek has nothing to do with physical violence. You can read any commentary about the verse and they talk about the slap being an attack on someone's dignity or honor, not a physical assault.

Perhaps you should go take your own advice on reading the Bible because every time you reference something in it the context is completely irrelevant.

I once saw a Christian MMA fighter thank God for his victory in the octagon. I considered it one of the least Christian things I had ever seen, not to mention the confused, mixed-up message that it sends. "I punched a guy and kicked him and tried to hurt him enough to make him submit to defeat for entertainment and personal glory- now I'll thank Jesus for that". Beating up someone for Jesus. Seriously? How idiotic and carnal- and unChristian. Stunning hypocrisy, actually.

Most of life involves someone winning and someone losing. Two football teams play and one wins. Many candidates interview for a job, one is hire. You date multiple people but you only marry one. Several companies bid on a contract and only one is chosen. Many pets at a shelter need a home but you only adopt one. You inventing someone else's motives is just revealing of your own insecurities. You don't have the ability to perform well at a sport and so you automatically accuse others who do of doing so for "personal glory".

And again you're straw-manning with claiming people are getting "beat up". Sometimes injuries happen, but they are rare. I train with dozens of people and we go to competitions, some win, some lose, we're sore for a day, and then we go back to training and having fun. Professionals train every day, multiple sessions a day, how can they do that if they're getting beat up? The fact that you keep using the same silly argument you can't prove just shows how sad your argument is.

If Christianity is too peaceful or pacifist for you- then try Islam. You get to kill, fight, oppress, you don't have to change your heart, you can keep your worldliness, idolize strength, submission and personal glory, and you still get to pretend you're serving God. You can be carnal and violent and fit right in.

Jesus didn't beat up on people for personal glory, money or victory, nor did His Apostles. I say yes to what Jesus says yes to, and no to what He says no to. That's the beginning of the pursuit of righteousness.

There's lots of things Jesus never did. Jesus never posted on internet forums yet I see you right here. If "Jesus never did it so it's wrong" is your argument then you aren't even being consistent with your own arguments. Why should anyone take you seriously?

 

[ContraMundum]

This is not Christian.

Argue all you want. It's not.

 

[ContraMundum]

Oh, so you watched a match then?

I've seen a few. But I don't like doing things that drop my IQ, so I avoid it.

 

[Zatek]

This is not Christian.

Argue all you want. It's not.

Pouting does magically make you right. Put forth an argument with evidence. Calling people names and saying they have low IQ without any proof and declaring we're wrong and you don't need to present and evidence because it's "obvious" is what children do.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

I Love MMA.

Jacob Wrestled with God Yeshua Messiah (Genesis 32:24-30)

LOL


For those who don't like MMA :

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

I Love MMA.

Jacob Wrestled with God Yeshua Messiah (Genesis 32:24-30)

LOL


For those who don't like MMA :

Man I love the sport too but in my heart of hearts I know it's not good to watch and not something God would want me to view.

 

[aiki]

I've been watching MMA for quite some time and do really enjoy the sport.

What do you enjoy about it?

That being said, as of late I've been wondering if watching such of a violent sport is wrong. For the most part I've cut out all violent movies in and TV shows in my life (but to be honest I didn't really watch that many to begin with.)

What guidance does God's word give to you?

2 Timothy 2:24-25
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

James 3:17-18
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

These are just a few of the verses one could muster in response to your question about watching MMA/UFC fighting. How is the violence, glory-seeking and opponent-crushing aims of this "sport" at all in keeping with biblical commands - not suggestions - to disciples of Christ to be gentle, humble, and peaceable?

My thought process is these men (and women) are destroying their bodies for this sport their temples. And yes some of these fighters are Christian (Vitor Belfort, Yoel Romero, and Dennis Hallman to name a few.) Romero even had a famous post-fight speech where he talked about Jesus.

Giving glory to God or thanking Jesus for success in smashing an opponent into submission or unconsciousness does not sanctify and/or make doing so right. Many neo-nazis claim an affiliation to things Christian, too. Are their violent, racist beliefs okay, then? If Hitler had praised Jesus for his success in killing six million Jews, would we give his mass-murdering a pass? Of course not. Lots of Christians do a wide host of things that are wrong all the time! Doing so while at the same time claiming allegiance to Christ does not make those wrong things that they do suddenly right.

That being said, I wonder if we're all hypocrites for either participating in or viewing the sport. Any thoughts?

Philippians 4:8
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor Effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


Yeshua Messiah Wrestled with Jacob. Don't let this Special Little Snowflake Society turn you into a Effeminate Wuss.

They are two Trained Athletes Competing in a sport. They are not defenceless random people being fed to lions, being put to death etc.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Remember that Yeshua Messiah is both The Lion AND The Lamb. He's not just The Lamb.

 

[aiki]

Jesus is "the Lion" in a way no UFC or MMA fighter will ever be. Surely, that's obvious. And how does Christ's return (as the Lion of Judah) in holiness, justice, judgment and omnipotent power justify two guys beating the stuffings out of each other? It simply doesn't.

Jacob wrestled with God. So what? Description is not prescription. We are not obliged by the description of something in Scripture to think we must do the same. That's patently foolish. Are we to behave like the inhabitants of Sodom? They're in the Bible, after all. Of course not.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

justify two guys beating the stuffings out of each other?

It's a Sporting Event and there is Nothing wrong with two athletes competing against each other.

Jacob wrestled with God.

God Wrestled with Jabob. That's the point. God "Wrestled".

Are we to behave like the inhabitants of Sodom?

God didn't punish Sodom for taking part in Athletic Competitions. It's weird that you are bringing up "Sodom" into the topic when it has Nothing to do with it.


Satan wants to trick people into becoming Effeminate Cowards that stay away from grappling and athletic competition.

God wants Us To Be Men. All the scriptures about being Gentle Etc. are meant in our interactions with one another in the Church and in life. It has nothing to do with sport or competition. You can be a respectful loving and law abiding citizen and still take part in an Athletic Competition that involves violence.


For we do not Wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
• Ephesians 6:12

 

[aiki]

It's a Sporting Event and there is Nothing wrong with two athletes competing against each other.

I'm sure the Romans back a couple of millenia ago also referred to the lethal Coliseum events as "sport."

I don't think two guys violently going at each other until one is forced by pain into unconsciousness or submission to be a sport. It's a fight. And it's a fight that appeals to some of the worst impulses of the human heart: ego, rage, bloodlust, power and greed.

God Wrestled with Jabob. That's the point. God "Wrestled".

No. Jacob wrestled. The angel of the Lord just played along. At any time he could have dislocated Jacob's hip (or worse). You've got a serious misunderstanding of God if you think He actually wrestled. And, again, just because a thing appears in the Bible doesn't mean its approved of or right. King David killed Goliath. Does that mean if I brained Shaquille O'Neal with a rock and killed him it would be all right? Of course not.

God didn't punish Sodom for taking part in Athletic Competitions. It's weird that you are bringing up "Sodom" into the topic when it has Nothing to do with it.

It has nothing directly to do with fighting, no. But it has everything to do with saying something is okay just because it is recorded in the Bible.

Satan wants to trick people into becoming Effeminate Cowards that stay away from grappling and athletic competition.

Really? Don't recall Jesus ever grappling with anyone or competing in athletics. None of his disciples did, either. Are you calling Jesus and the apostles effeminate cowards? I've also never read in Scripture that not grappling or competing in athletics amounts to effeminacy. There's not one single verse that even hints that this is so. Where are you getting these odd ideas from? Not God, that's for sure!

God wants Us To Be Men. All the scriptures about being Gentle Etc. are meant in our interactions with one another in the Church and in life. It has nothing to do with sport or competition.

I don't read this qualification you've made here anywhere in the New Testament. No where in the Bible will you read of God saying, "Hey, you pansies! Grab and punch either a bit. Knock each other out. Maybe break a few arms and noses. It'll put hair on your chest!"

You can be a respectful loving and law abiding citizen and still take part in an Athletic Competition that involves violence.

No one is saying that you can't. Hitting a ball with a bat is a violent act; so is hitting a tennis ball with a racket; and so is kicking a soccer ball. But these actions are not violent in the way belting some guy in the face is. Surely, you can see that.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

It All Boils down to this... They are Willing Trained Participants taking part in a Sporting Competition.

No one is getting killed. No one is partaking Unwillingly. There Are Rules, Sporting Commissions, Referees Etc.

It Is Nothing NOTHING like innocent people being fed to lions or untrained people fighting with swords to the death.


There is nothing Wrong with Combat Sports and Grappling.

 

[aiki]

It All Boils down to this... They are Willing Trained Participants taking part in a Sporting Competition.

What's any of this got to do with whether or not it's all right for disciples of Christ to participate in or watch two guys pummeling each other bloody? Nothing. My nephew listens to Death Metal music. It's just about as demonic a kind of music as you can find. Dark, angry, foul, demonic and suicidal lyrics. Just harsh, screaming, incomprehensible noise. But the musicians are trained, willing participants in the vile music they make. Guess that makes it all right, then. We should all pick up a recording or two of bands screaming about butchery, death and the devil. I mean, its okay, right, to listen to their vile junk if they are trained and willing? Obviously not.

And fighting is not a sport. It's fighting - whatever the fans and promoters want to assert.

No one is getting killed. No one is partaking Unwillingly. There Are Rules, Sporting Commissions, Referees Etc.

Two adulterers partake willingly in their adultery. No one gets killed. So? It's still wrong.

And so what if there is an industry of refs, commissions, coaches and so on around UFC fighting? Since when did making an industry of what is bad ever make it good? Drug lords make an industry of drugs. They have cartels, and shipping agents, enforcers and pushers. So? That doesn't make their drug making right.

It Is Nothing NOTHING like innocent people being fed to lions or untrained people fighting with swords to the death.

Sleeping with a prostitute is nothing like UFC fighting, too. So what? It's still wrong. The standard isn't how close UFC is to gladiatorial fighting in Rome but the standard set by our Saviour, Jesus Christ. He never punched anyone in the face; he never broke someone's nose; he never choked anyone into unconsciousness. I think, as a Christian, I'll follow his example, not the example of GSP, or Connor McGregor.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Sleeping with a prostitute is nothing like UFC fighting, too.

It's RIDICULOUS and Deceitful that you are comparing participating in Combat Sports to sleeping with a Prostitute. Seriously ?


Ok let me ask you this, do you think participating in any of these combat sports Individually is a sin ?

• Highschool Wrestling
• Boxing
• Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
• Submission Grappling
• Boxing
• Kick Boxing
• Karate

 

[Sketcher]

And fighting is not a sport. It's fighting - whatever the fans and promoters want to assert.

It's a combat sport. If it were not a sport, it would not have rules. In an actual self-defense situation, some of the MMA drills are counterproductive. You don't ground-and-pound a mugger if he goes down. You take off and run. You do whatever you have to do to get to the point where you can run - soccer kicks, finger locks, biting, anything that would get you penalized in an MMA match. That is real fighting.

He never punched anyone in the face; he never broke someone's nose; he never choked anyone into unconsciousness.

That we know of. Whether or not he used his whip against people in the temple, there's no clear indicator either.

 

[aiki]

It's RIDICULOUS and Deceitful that you are comparing participating in Combat Sports to sleeping with a Prostitute. Seriously ?

Well, actually, what I wrote was:

"Sleeping with a prostitute is nothing like UFC fighting, too. So what? It's still wrong."

So, I did the very opposite of what you said I did. I said that sleeping with a prostitute is nothing like UFC fighting. You aren't really understanding what I'm writing, are you? That's probably why you don't respond to most of what I write. In any event, I'm afraid you're not making your case very well...

Ok let me ask you this, do you think participating in any of these combat sports Individually is a sin ?

• Highschool Wrestling
• Boxing
• Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
• Submission Grappling
• Boxing
• Kick Boxing
• Karate

Do I think participating in these activities is sin? Depends upon why you're participating and what you do in the course of your participation. All of these things are used in UFC fighting, I understand, but this no more means UFC fighting is all right than saying a poison cake is all right because it is made of good and wholesome things like sugar, flour, eggs, milk, etc.

 

[aiki]

It's a combat sport. If it were not a sport, it would not have rules.

Rules don't make a thing a sport. Chess has rules. Is it, therefore, a sport? No.

In an actual self-defense situation, some of the MMA drills are counterproductive. You don't ground-and-pound a mugger if he goes down. You take off and run. You do whatever you have to do to get to the point where you can run - soccer kicks, finger locks, biting, anything that would get you penalized in an MMA match. That is real fighting.

Believe me, I know. Self-defense is very different from what UFC is. I make a clear distinction between them.

"He never punched anyone in the face; he never broke someone's nose; he never choked anyone into unconsciousness."

That we know of.

Come on, now. This is just a bit silly. Are you implying that Jesus did these things? Why, would he? Do you remember what he said to Peter on the Mount of Olives when the mob had arrived to arrest him?

Matthew 26:52-53
52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?

When you have this sort of power at your disposal, punching people in the face is not necessary.

 

[Sketcher]

Rules don't make a thing a sport. Chess has rules. Is it, therefore, a sport? No.

Chess doesn't have physicality, which makes it not a sport. MMA has physicality and rules, it is a sport.

Come on, now. This is just a bit silly. Are you implying that Jesus did these things?

No, I'm not implying that he did. But he was involved in at least one physical altercation in which he used a whip, overturned tables, and ran money changers out of the temple courts. We don't have all the details of that, unfortunately. They would be useful for this debate.