I am not going to get into scriptures but I can say that we are not supposed to place our actions or belief or thoughts on "numbers". The Bible does admit that they do exist. It is a product of old scholars and it was done over many years, but we are instructed to stay away from it because it can be twisted to the users desire. We are to read the Word for what it means.Maybe this is it,
Just worked out something interesting last night, add together the Greek lexicon numbers for six hundred (1835) sixty (1803) six (1803) it equals Greek (5450) meaning -a puffing up with pride.
Honey, you don't have to figure everything out in the Bible 100%. I can imagine that attempting to do so could drive some people nuts.I had no idea, thank-you for that! It is back to the drawing board, or a complete meltdown.
As in the last chapter and verse of John.Honey, you don't have to figure everything out in the Bible 100%. I can imagine that attempting to do so could drive some people nuts.
The best verse I could find that helped me understand why I couldn't find everything I was looking for -Honey, you don't have to figure everything out in the Bible 100%. I can imagine that attempting to do so could drive some people nuts.
Just a curiosity. The number of years between Nebuchadnezzar first conquering Judea and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is 667 years.Maybe this is it,
Just worked out something interesting last night, add together the Greek lexicon numbers for six hundred (1835) sixty (1803) six (1803) it equals Greek (5450) meaning -a puffing up with pride.
Daniel 7 is three visions in one night.
Daniel saw more than four beasts.
Umm wow. Never heard that one before. You don’t see any coralation between Daniels interpretation of the Kings dream and this vision? 4 empires then the kingdom of God?The fourth beast is the most terrifying to Daniel. Its ten horns represent the countries in Europe and the beast represents the Roman Empire, and presumably the papacy.
"7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots. And behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things." Daniel 7:8
The next verses has Daniel describing his vision of heaven. He describes Jesus as the "Ancient of Days."
The Ancient of Days Reigns
9 “As I looked,
thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
his clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued
and came out from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.
11 “I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time." Daniel 9:12
Part of what Daniel saw is in the past with the four beasts, but the fourth beast also represents the future for us. The angel Gabriel explains to Daniel about the future prophecy in the verses after that.
I'll stop here. The rest, i.e. future for us, has been interpreted many ways, so I can only offer one explanation. The fourth beast is killed and its body burned and a "son of man" comes from heaven in the clouds and is led before the Ancient of Days. This man is given much power and becomes world leader. He is the Antichrist. The term antichrist may not just mean that he is against Christianity or Jesus. It may mean that he wants to assume the role of Christ Jesus, i.e. trick people into believing he is the true Jesus.
Umm wow. Never heard that one before. You don’t see any coralation between Daniels interpretation of the Kings dream and this vision? 4 empires then the kingdom of God?
So there is no possibility in thinking that these two visions/dreams are not prophecies of the same events and the son of man is the messiah?Shudder. First, let's separate the kingdom of God from the four. The kingdom of God is the stone in Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
"44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever," Daniel 2:44. This is still to come and part of the future mystery.
The four empires or kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire were part of the king's dream. Babylon as represented by the head in the king's dream was more powerful than the next two, but not the fourth. The fourth was the strongest of them all, but had a feet of clay or weakness. It means the four kingdoms will become divided and in turmoil. Daniel correctly described the king's dream with the help of God. He also correctly foretold of what was to happen and was promoted even though King N didn't completely understand its meaning. Babylon is Iraq, Medo-Persia is Iran, Ancient Greece is not the same as today's Greece and is Turkey. The Roman Empire became western Europe, but today is the European Union. Is that the fourth empire that was prophecized?
"24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished and rose up in haste. He declared to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the fire?” They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.” 25 He answered and said, “But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods.” Daniel 3:24-25
Later in the story of Daniel, we see "a son of the gods" again with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the furnace. However, only the three walk out to be met by the King N. This is again a reference to the Antichrist and the iron/clay empire of what is to come.
So there is no possibility in thinking that these two visions/dreams are not prophecies of the same events and the son of man is the messiah?
I don't see why you are reading all that into the text. After all one of he things Jesus called himself was the Son of Man. It would seem the far greater weight as far as meaning is the correlation with the first prophecy in Daniel. Four Empires then the Kingdom of God.The son of man is not the messiah, but is the answer to the million dollar question. I think he takes the place of the messiah by deception. Lucifer wanted to take God's place in heaven or be an equal co-leader is one interpretation. Instead, he became god of the world, but is limited in his powers by God. Many will think he is the messiah as more people do not believe in the Bible than in the past. Even the believers could be deceived as they have their own interpretations. However, we still have ways to go before finding out. Thanks for the discussion. I find out more about this through discussion.
I don't see why you are reading all that into the text. After all one of he things Jesus called himself was the Son of Man. It would seem the far greater weight as far as meaning is the correlation with the first prophecy in Daniel. Four Empires then the Kingdom of God.
Daniel 2: Four empires then:
44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it will crush and bring to an end all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Daniel 7: Four empires then:
13. I saw in the night visions, and look, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14. And there was given him an empire, and glory, and dominion, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his empire is an everlasting empire, which shall not pass away, and his dominion that which shall not be destroyed.
Is it perhaps this interpretation of verses 13-14 that is throwing you for a loop?
27. And the kingdom and empire, and the greatness of the dominion under the whole heaven, will be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all empires shall serve and obey him.
Says the same thing in Daniel 2
44. And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people
Yes, the end time prophecy of the age of those four gentile empires. Which is different than the end time prophecy of the Old Covenant age which you are referring to in Daniel chapter 8.So you're saying that Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are describing the same end times prophecy? That the one "like the Son of man" refers to the Messiah and is actually the second coming of Christ Jesus? It is confusing because the four beasts describe the past as well as the future.
The problem your facing is that your trying to insert certain end time teachings into this text rather than just taking the text for what it plainly states.What about the description of the antichrist in Daniel 8?