Is this a legitimate request?

[cerette]

How do you know the Bible is the true word of God?
How do you know that the belief was awakened in you by God and not through natural processes?



When you say "above all", what do you mean by that?
What real thing in the world is the "Father" part of God?
What real thing in the world is the "Holy Spirit" part of God?
I assume "The Son" refers to Jesus Christ. Since Jesus died some 2,000 years ago, is "The Son" currently living? If so, did Jesus actually die and when he rose from the dead, it marked the start of a new life? Or was he never really deceased? Or is "The Son" not currently a living being?


I'm not absolutely certain that God isn't real. In this thread, I've provided a very good opportunity for God to show he is real. What purpose would this thread serve if I were absolutely 100% sure that God isn't real? What I'm curious about is if he is real - as many Christians say - then why am I not hearing back what number I'm thinking of?


I'm not interested in God. I'm interested in what Christians like yourself really believe and why they believe it. But if God is real, would I like to see a demonstration of his omniscience and omnipotence? Absolutely. However, I see nothing - which clearly demonstrates either that your god isn't real or your god is real, but doesn't care whether or not I believe he exists.

I don't have the time today to get into all your questions, but I want to ask: Do you really see "nothing"? Aren't you in awe over the fact that children are born, for example? Every time I see a newborn baby I almost feel short of breath for a second because the mere fact that a new person was born is so overwhelmingly "huge" and "powerful" and points to there being Someone who has created that child, someone who started human life. To me it's clear evidence that there is a Creator and giver of life.

 

[Akureyri]

I don't have the time today to get into all your questions, but I want to ask: Do you really see "nothing"?

I never said I see nothing. I only said I have never seen anything suggesting that any supernatural forces exist.

Aren't you in awe over the fact that children are born, for example? Every time I see a newborn baby I almost feel short of breath for a second because the mere fact that a new person was born is so overwhelmingly "huge" and "powerful" and points to there being Someone who has created that child, someone who started human life. To me it's clear evidence that there is a Creator and giver of life.

It sounds like you're making an argument for a God of the Gaps. You don't know how the children could possibly be born, so therefore God did it. Did you know that's a fallacious argument known as the Argument from Ignorance? See Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or do you want me to think that what the common person refers to as natural causes, you refer to as God? If so, then why confuse matters and call it God? Why not just say seeing a newborn baby makes you feel in awe of natural causes?

The creator of the child was the child's parents. Did you not know that?

Do you claim to know how human life started? If so, what are your sources? And how could you know more than advanced scientists and biologists?

 

[cerette]

I never said I see nothing. I only said I have never seen anything suggesting that any supernatural forces exist.


It sounds like you're making an argument for a God of the Gaps. You don't know how the children could possibly be born, so therefore God did it. Did you know that's a fallacious argument known as the Argument from Ignorance? See Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or do you want me to think that what the common person refers to as natural causes, you refer to as God? If so, then why confuse matters and call it God? Why not just say seeing a newborn baby makes you feel in awe of natural causes?

The creator of the child was the child's parents. Did you not know that?

Do you claim to know how human life started? If so, what are your sources? And how could you know more than advanced scientists and biologists?

Parents don't really create their babies. They have intercourse and most babies are conceived in that way. But the parents or doctors or whoever it is that partakes in the process are not the creators of life. The life comes from God.

 

[Forgiven777]

If God can do anything, then he can make a rock so big that he can't pick it up.
1) He creates the rock
2) He diminishes his omnipotence such that he can do anything except lift the rock
3) He attempts to lift the rock and fails


One can tell what one prefers by watching their actions. If your god is real, it is clear that he doesn't care whether or not I believe he exists, as he hasn't done anything to demonstrate his existence.

My request isn't meant to test God. It is meant as an opportunity for your god to show me he is real. If he is real, I would like to see that he is real. If he is indeed real, he is free to accept or reject my proposal.

satan made proposals to Yeshua, God also and Yeshua said "don't temp the Lord your God" I know God is real He bears wittness of HImself to me when I read and when I pray and other times as well HE does not speak to me in a audio voice to my physical ears He speaks to me Spiritually to my heart .. God does not communicate with me physically that is my flesh as HE did to Moses God speaks to me spiritually by His Holy Spirit..
When we ( Christians)pray we must pray in spirit and when we read we must read in spirit God is Spirit and we must worship Him in truth and spirit . If I were to pray physical conscious my prayer would never reach the THrone of Grace for the flesh is sinfull and can not enter the THrone of Grace its it through Yeshua who split the vail that I have access with my spirit to boldly enter and if I read with my physical conscious instead of my spiritual conscious I would reason the Word of God by my fleshly conscious,,, God does not give spiritual understanding to our physical (fleshly conscious) but to our spiritual what can the flesh know and understand about God God is Spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and truth Gods ways are above those of the flesh that is why Christ Yeshua gave His life to redeem man(kind) Yeshua said "Yea must be born again" What is born of the flesh is flesh what is born of the spirit is spirit.
I remember the first time I heard God speak to me I was reading and suddenly my eyes was open to what I was reading not just knowing the surface by the depth of it I was given understanding and I was sooo excited and ran to my bedroom and fell on my knees to thank Him I was so joyful but my mistake was trying to visiualize God I thought I had to see Him in order to communicate with Him no we do not need to visiualize Him we talk to those on earth with our fleshly conscious God is Spirit and we must worship Him in spirit and truth anyway to my surprise God clearly said to me " DO NOT VISUALIZE ME KNOW THAT I AM" I said praise God joyfully giving praise because God does not need us to visualize Him to make Him exist or make Him real because we man(kind) was created by HIm we can't and shouldn't try to create an image of Him .. We were made in His image not He ours and what if everyone praying visualized God in millions of different images .. No God exists God is Spirit and we must worship Him in truth and spirit ..
God exists you can't prove He doesn't.. I would try if I were you and you should be afraid to tempt God to prove He exists .. what if He were to take away the breath you breath ... you would know He exists but God would have all to be saved He did not play favortism on Calvarys Tree God through Christ Yeshua died one time for all people and all sin past ,present and future .. Yeshua was totally man and totally God for only God is perfect no one else being just man could redeem man(kind) if so each of us could redeem ourselves based on our own good works /merits
I gave my life to Yeshua Aug 1985 I'm saved but I stil have my flesh ..what is born of flesh is flesh what is born of the spirit is spirit so I could not even today on and by my own merits enter my Sabbaths Rest for in and of myself I am not perfect no one but God is perfect and its through His Spirit that dwells within me that I'm perfect not my flesh thats perfect but He Who dwells within He is perfect .
If you truely want to know God[ and I pray you do] pray from your heart
Lord Yeshua I want to know You forgive me of my sin I open the door to my heart to You come in and sup with me be sincere because Yeshua was sincere about dying for you and arose for you and awaits for you in Heaven God did not give up on you don't give up on God and know that Calvary was not an afterthought with God Genesis 3:15 God made a promise John 1:1-14 God keeps every promise for He can not lie He is the Truth the Light and the only way to Heaven having Eternal Life
I you believe and recieve the Lord Yeshua as your Lord and Savior

 

[Akureyri]

Parents don't really create their babies. They have intercourse and most babies are conceived in that way. But the parents or doctors or whoever it is that partakes in the process are not the creators of life. The life comes from God.

It sounds like you are using a God of the Gaps argument. Anything for which we don't have an explanation for its coming into existence came from God.

It would sound a little less arrogant if you (and other Christians) were to simply say, "I don't know how that came into existence" rather than to say "God created it". Same thing, just two different ways of saying it. If it's not the same thing, then you're on the hook to explain what real thing in this universe is it you're calling "God".

 

[Akureyri]

satan made proposals to Yeshua, God also and Yeshua said "don't temp the Lord your God"

The only plausible explanation for this quote is because the authors know their god doesn't exist and to deflect from this fact, they do everything they can to keep readers from doing things which will help reveal that god doesn't exist.

I know God is real He bears wittness of HImself to me when I read and when I pray and other times as well HE does not speak to me in a audio voice to my physical ears

What do you mean by "bears witness of himself"?

He speaks to me Spiritually to my heart .. God does not communicate with me physically that is my flesh as HE did to Moses God speaks to me spiritually by His Holy Spirit..

What evidence do you have that what you are feeling actually comes from a god?

When we ( Christians)pray we must pray in spirit and when we read we must read in spirit God is Spirit and we must worship Him in truth and spirit .

What exactly is "spirit"?

 

[cerette]

The source for Christian beliefs is the Bible. That is where you get "the Christian ideas" from. So if you ask a Christian what her beliefs are, you will get answers from the Bible. Now you, Akureyri, say that the Bible doesn't count as a source and you demand other answers in order to find them acceptable, but that is not how it works. If you want to know about Christian beliefs, then you will hear stuff from the Bible.

It's sort of like walking into a candy store and demand that they sell you tools. It just doesn't work that way--the candy stores sells candy, not tools. So if you want tools, go to a place that sells them. But don't walk into the candy store and demand of them to sell something they don't sell. (Don't ask about Christian beliefs but then require that the Bible isn't an acceptable answer.)

So, if you're interested in Christian beliefs, then you must accept that you will get answers from the Bible. If you don't want to hear things from the Bible, then you can't really ask about Christian beliefs.

 

[manofsorrows]

With respect to this particular discussion, I'm trying to get a sense of whether or not my request is legitimate. And if it is not, why isn't it legitimate?

Asking for a sign was never respected by the Lord.
"But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah." Matthew 12:39

God will reveal Himself to you through other ways if you are open to Him.
"Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse" Romans 1:19-20

If you are humble enough to listen to other believers who once were where you are now, the Lord may also reveal Himself to you through them.
"We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God." 2Corinthians 5:20

God is pleased with faith.
"But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6

If you really want to know the Lord, you have to have your heart in it, not just sit back and "think of a number." This may involve humbling yourself.
"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13

Salvation is a gift which you can receive by believing.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8

After receiving salvation, the "sign" which you sought in the beginning now lives in your heart.
"in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption." Ephesians 1:13-14

The Kingdom of God has been called the upside-down Kingdom. Why? because everything is the opposite of how we think it should be. To save your life, you have to lose it. To be strong, you must be weak. To be exalted, you have to humble yourself. The last shall be first and the first shall be last.
The Jews expected God to come in power and reign on earth, but He was born very lowly in a manger, lived as a servant, and died a humble death. You expect God to give you a sign in order for you to believe, but God will give you plenty of signs after you surrender to Him, including his Holy Spirit.

 

[Akureyri]

The source for Christian beliefs is the Bible. That is where you get "the Christian ideas" from. So if you ask a Christian what her beliefs are, you will get answers from the Bible. Now you, Akureyri, say that the Bible doesn't count as a source and you demand other answers in order to find them acceptable, but that is not how it works. If you want to know about Christian beliefs, then you will hear stuff from the Bible.

Who wrote the Bible and what do you know about the credibility of those people?

Perhaps I should be asking why you believe the Bible? Why do you believe the Bible?

It's sort of like walking into a candy store and demand that they sell you tools. It just doesn't work that way--the candy stores sells candy, not tools. So if you want tools, go to a place that sells them. But don't walk into the candy store and demand of them to sell something they don't sell. (Don't ask about Christian beliefs but then require that the Bible isn't an acceptable answer.)

The problem with that analogy is Christians are making claims about the physical universe - and the Bible is not a good source for information about the physical universe. I'm not interested in what the Bible has to say. What I am interested in is upon what basis you and other Christians believe such outrageous claims about the universe and its history.

So, if you're interested in Christian beliefs, then you must accept that you will get answers from the Bible. If you don't want to hear things from the Bible, then you can't really ask about Christian beliefs.

That sounds like a smokescreen you're putting up so that your beliefs don't have to stand up to the scrutiny of rational thinking.

 

[Grafted In]

Sounds like He's got your number. Keep searching.

 

[cerette]

Who wrote the Bible and what do you know about the credibility of those people?

Perhaps I should be asking why you believe the Bible? Why do you believe the Bible?


The problem with that analogy is Christians are making claims about the physical universe - and the Bible is not a good source for information about the physical universe. I'm not interested in what the Bible has to say. What I am interested in is upon what basis you and other Christians believe such outrageous claims about the universe and its history.


That sounds like a smokescreen you're putting up so that your beliefs don't have to stand up to the scrutiny of rational thinking.

The Bible was written by several verbally inspired people.
I believe the Bible because the Holy Spirit has awakened such belief in me.
Christianity is not about "Christianity against science". Christians believe in science too. But where science is speculating (such as when it makes claims about the beginning of the world and universe and humans) we are blessed to have some facts in the Bible about those things. (How do I know they're facts? Because I believe the Bible is the true Word of God. How can I believe this? Because the Holy Spirit has awakened such faith in me.)
No, it's not a smokescreen I've put up. It is however so, that Christian beliefs are founded on the Bible. That is what it is. So if you truly want to know what Christians believe, you must listen to what we tell you that the Bible says. That is where Christian beliefs "come from".
Now if you'd rather hear from other religious people about their beliefs, then I am sure you will get answers that have nothing to do with the Bible. Ask a Buddhist or maybe a Hindu--they don't traditionally use the Bible as their source. But if you're interested in Christian beliefs, then you must accept that Christians base their beliefs on the Bible.

 

[Akureyri]

The Bible was written by several verbally inspired people.

Who verbally inspired them? How do you know who wrote the Bible?

I believe the Bible because the Holy Spirit has awakened such belief in me.

Please explain what it means for the Holy Spirit to awaken belief in you.

Christianity is not about "Christianity against science". Christians believe in science too. But where science is speculating (such as when it makes claims about the beginning of the world and universe and humans) we are blessed to have some facts in the Bible about those things.

How can you know what is written in the Bible is factual?

(How do I know they're facts? Because I believe the Bible is the true Word of God. How can I believe this? Because the Holy Spirit has awakened such faith in me.)

You don't know the Bible is factual. If you believe it is factual, then someone has tricked or manipulated you into believing something which isn't true. How do you feel about being tricked or manipulated in that manner?

No, it's not a smokescreen I've put up. It is however so, that Christian beliefs are founded on the Bible. That is what it is. So if you truly want to know what Christians believe, you must listen to what we tell you that the Bible says. That is where Christian beliefs "come from".

Beliefs and knowledge are two different things. The things you claim to know - you don't really know. It makes you sound awfully arrogant to say you know things which you can't really know. But I am interested in what you believe and why you believe it.

Now if you'd rather hear from other religious people about their beliefs, then I am sure you will get answers that have nothing to do with the Bible. Ask a Buddhist or maybe a Hindu--they don't traditionally use the Bible as their source. But if you're interested in Christian beliefs, then you must accept that Christians base their beliefs on the Bible.

Why do you believe the Bible is a true account of historic events?

 

[aiki]

Many Christians I know claim that God knows everything and wants everyone to believe he exists. They also claim that they communicate back and forth with God.

This is accomplished primarily through God's Word, the Bible. In it God communicates to us all that He desires, on a fundamental level, for us to know about Him and our relationship to Him. On relatively rare occasions, God speaks directly to an individual, but even then, it is not necessarily an audible or inner voice but communication through circumstance, or provision, or another person.

So I'll say I'm thinking of a number from 1 to ten million. I'll ask the Christian to ask God what number I'm thinking of and when God reports back to them with the number that they share it with me.

Well, this is just a lot of "hoop jumping." It is a demand for additional, personal proof from God that He is who He is. It is you telling God what He must do to impress and convince you and cause you to believe in Him, which gets the proper order of relationship between you and God completely backwards. God has given all the "proof" you need to "believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him." It has persuaded millions to faith in Himself, so it is not weak or unconvincing grounds for trusting Him. And if it is good enough for millions of others, it is good enough for you.

If they are right that God wants me to believe he exists, that God knows everything and that they can communicate back and forth with God, then they should have no trouble producing the number.

But God isn't waiting with bated breath for you to choose to believe in Him. He is perfect and requires nothing. He does not need you to believe in Him. If you will not trust Him, the only one who loses out is you. God is undiminished by your lack of belief. Thus, God has no particular motivation to jump through your hoop.

But they refuse to take me up on my offer. As I don't see anything wrong with this request, it suggests that the Christians making these three claims aren't being intellectually honest.

See above.

Christians do communicate with God but they can't compel Him to play your game. And for reasons I have given above, He is not likely to satisfy you as you'd like.

Selah.

 

[contango]

My goal isn't to disprove or prove the existence of a god. This is merely an opportunity for you or your god (if it is real) to show me that it is real. No more, no less.

In other words if God doesn't exist you've lost nothing, and if the King of Kings decides not to jump through hoops to perform a silly party trick you reject his existence.

Tell you what, if Barack Obama doesn't reply to this post within a day I'm going to assume he doesn't exist and the United States is therefore some kind of third world tinpot banana republic, operating under the illusion of a leader who doesn't exist. Does that work for you?

 

[Akureyri]

In other words if God doesn't exist you've lost nothing, and if the King of Kings decides not to jump through hoops to perform a silly party trick you reject his existence.

Tell you what, if Barack Obama doesn't reply to this post within a day I'm going to assume he doesn't exist and the United States is therefore some kind of third world tinpot banana republic, operating under the illusion of a leader who doesn't exist. Does that work for you?

Does Barack Obama want you to believe he exists?

Does Barack Obama even know that this message board exists?

I don't reject the existence of your god. I merely don't believe that your god exists.

 

[Akureyri]

This is accomplished primarily through God's Word, the Bible. In it God communicates to us all that He desires, on a fundamental level, for us to know about Him and our relationship to Him. On relatively rare occasions, God speaks directly to an individual, but even then, it is not necessarily an audible or inner voice but communication through circumstance, or provision, or another person.

The Bible was written by humans some two thousand years ago. Are you calling the people who wrote the Bible "God"? If so, why call them God? Why not call them what they are - the people who wrote the Bible?

Can God communicate with humans using an audible voice?

Well, this is just a lot of "hoop jumping." It is a demand for additional, personal proof from God that He is who He is. It is you telling God what He must do to impress and convince you and cause you to believe in Him, which gets the proper order of relationship between you and God completely backwards.

I'm willing to give Christians and their God the benefit of the doubt. It's his choice. And if he knows everything, then he'll know precisely what it would take to get me to believe he exists. As actions speak louder than words, if your God is real, he doesn't give a rats behind whether or not I believe he exists.

God has given all the "proof" you need to "believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

That he is what? It seems you left a word out between "believe that he is" & "and that He is".

In what way does God reward those to diligently seek him?

It has persuaded millions to faith in Himself, so it is not weak or unconvincing grounds for trusting Him. And if it is good enough for millions of others, it is good enough for you.

Why do more people not believe the Christian god is real than do believe the Christian god is real?

But God isn't waiting with bated breath for you to choose to believe in Him. He is perfect and requires nothing. He does not need you to believe in Him.

Does he want me to believe he exists?

If you will not trust Him, the only one who loses out is you.

How can I trust or distrust something which I don't believe to exist? Do you trust the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Do you distrust the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

God is undiminished by your lack of belief. Thus, God has no particular motivation to jump through your hoop.

If you don't believe God wants me to believe he exists, then my request bears no merit from your perspective.

Christians do communicate with God but they can't compel Him to play your game. And for reasons I have given above, He is not likely to satisfy you as you'd like.

They can ask God to demonstrate to me that he is real.

 

[dhh712]

What evidence do you have that a god is the cause of nature?

What evidence do you have that the Bible is the word of God?

The evidences are found in Scripture, which most likely you will not accept since they are not evidences provided to you by the world.

Basically, no one on here will be able to convince you of God's existence unless He makes a revelation of Himself to you and gives you the ability to believe upon Him.

I once felt very much, I would say exactly but of course I cannot know that, the way you do about God, the Bible, and need for evidence of it before I could believe it. I felt, as a person having a rational mind, since "God" gave me this ability, He would mean for me to use it. I would not accept it if there was no objective evidence, something which could be proven by repeatable experiments.

However, I don't wish to dissuade you from your posts here. I think they are exceptional, very vital questions from a non-believer.

 

[aiki]

The Bible was written by humans some two thousand years ago. Are you calling the people who wrote the Bible "God"? If so, why call them God? Why not call them what they are - the people who wrote the Bible?

I don't believe people authored the Bible. Humans may have written the Bible but its Author is God. This is a classic Christian view of the Bible.

Can God communicate with humans using an audible voice?

Certainly. But I don't think He does so as a common practice. He doesn't need to since He has already thoroughly expressed Himself to us in His Word, the Bible.

I'm willing to give Christians and their God the benefit of the doubt. It's his choice. And if he knows everything, then he'll know precisely what it would take to get me to believe he exists. As actions speak louder than words, if your God is real, he doesn't give a rats behind whether or not I believe he exists.

I don't think He is biting His nails hoping you'll believe in Him. He is a loving God and so He offers you His salvation and fellowship. But He is God and doesn't need you to do so. If you want to play games and fool around with your eternal destiny, He is willing to let you. He isn't the one who has anything to lose if you die in your sins.

That he is what?

That He exists.

In what way does God reward those to diligently seek him?

With the revelation of and fellowship with Himself. He is the ultimate reward for every Christian person.

Why do more people not believe the Christian god is real than do believe the Christian god is real?

Because the majority desire to serve themselves rather than their Maker. It is easier to do this when one pretends God does not exist.

Does he want me to believe he exists?

Oh, you know God exists - and He knows that deep down within you know this. What He wants, then, isn't your belief but your loving fellowship with Him. But you must enter into such fellowship freely and joyfully. God does not want to relate to you when you are grudgingly compelled by the force of inescapable fact into doing so.

How can I trust or distrust something which I don't believe to exist? Do you trust the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Do you distrust the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

The evidence for God is considerable and persuasive. Can you provide the same evidence for the FSM? I think not.

If you don't believe God wants me to believe he exists, then my request bears no merit from your perspective.

God wants you to trust in Him but you must do so on His terms, not your own. He is God and He tells you how its going to go, not the other way 'round.

They can ask God to demonstrate to me that he is real.

Ask Him yourself. Just don't expect He'll answer exactly as you'd like. When I asked God to make Himself real to me I was not prepared at all for the means He used to do so. It was very...unpleasant. Necessary, but unpleasant.

Selah.

 

[Akureyri]

The evidences are found in Scripture, which most likely you will not accept since they are not evidences provided to you by the world.

What evidence do you have that what is written in the Bible an accurate portrayal of reality?

Basically, no one on here will be able to convince you of God's existence unless He makes a revelation of Himself to you and gives you the ability to believe upon Him.

I already have the ability to believe in the existence of something that does show itself to exist.

I once felt very much, I would say exactly but of course I cannot know that, the way you do about God, the Bible, and need for evidence of it before I could believe it. I felt, as a person having a rational mind, since "God" gave me this ability, He would mean for me to use it.

Please explain how god gives you abilities.

I would not accept it if there was no objective evidence, something which could be proven by repeatable experiments.

However, I don't wish to dissuade you from your posts here. I think they are exceptional, very vital questions from a non-believer.

Thank you for your participation and your insight.

 

[NeoStar]

So... U still need an answer right?

Cause I've got it

A number between 1 and 1trillion