Is this a legitimate request?

[Sketcher]

First, it's not a test. Second, it shouldn't concern you if I lie about the number. This isn't meant to convince you of anything. It's meant to convince me.

This is a test. And if you're likely to lie about the results, then "convincing" you is either impossible or useless.

 

[Spaceman 3]

Like I said. It is the other way around. Ant can go see if Mister Smith exists. Mister Smith has no obligation to an ant to prove his existence.

In your pride you cannot even imagine existence of somebody greater then yourself. MUCH, MUCH greater! In His wisdom He left “walls”, signs directing to Him everywhere. You are bumping into them all the time yet you demand that The Creator of the universe and everything in it proves His existence to you.

You have no capability to give God an opportunity to do anything but you have all kinds of opportunities to find God.

To answer your original question…. No it is not a legitimate question.

Hi Sedoy...

I like your 'Ant' analogy, I think there's something in that.

You talk about "walls" however, so can you give some examples of these "walls" that God has left us to bump into please?

Also, the existence of a rail track doesn't necessarily prove that Mr. Smith exists. Sure, the existence of a rail track itself might demand the philosophical question of how it got there & whether or not something 'created' the rail track, but to assign it to Mr. Smith would be no more than a 'theory' or belief on the proclaiming ant's part, unless of course that same ant could produce firm, consistent evidence to prove it was Mr. Smith.

The rail track may also, in fact be the work of Jack Buddha, or Dr. John Hindu, or indeed Rob Zoroastra, or indeed it may be the collaborative effort of all of the above under the guidance of Steve Yahweh. This all, would still remain a mystery to the ants, would it not?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Many Christians I know claim that God knows everything and wants everyone to believe he exists. They also claim that they communicate back and forth with God.

So I'll say I'm thinking of a number from 1 to ten million. I'll ask the Christian to ask God what number I'm thinking of and when God reports back to them with the number that they share it with me. If they are right that God wants me to believe he exists, that God knows everything and that they can communicate back and forth with God, then they should have no trouble producing the number. But they refuse to take me up on my offer. As I don't see anything wrong with this request, it suggests that the Christians making these three claims aren't being intellectually honest.

Hi I have had some one make a similar request before. I am a person who can from time to time hear from God. See http://www.futureandahope.net for examples of how God has spoken to me. However when I attempted to get the number for the last person who asked it was not correct. So I make no claim to be able to do this. However just incase it works this time I will give you a number.

4560143

 

[Akureyri]

This is a test. And if you're likely to lie about the results, then "convincing" you is either impossible or useless.

test1 [test] Show IPA
noun
1.
the means by which the presence, quality, or genuineness of anything is determined; a means of trial.
2.
the trial of the quality of something: to put to the test.
3.
a particular process or method for trying or assessing.
4.
a set of questions, problems, or the like, used as a means of evaluating the abilities, aptitudes, skills, or performance of an individual or group; examination.
5.
Psychology . a set of standardized questions, problems, or tasks designed to elicit responses for use in measuring the traits, capacities, or achievements of an individual.

Definitions 1, 2, 3 & 5 are all defeated, as this is not a means to determine if a god exists. It is an opportunity for your god to demonstrate he exists, should that be his desire.

Definition #4 is not applicable, as this is not meant to evaluate the aptitude of anyone.

This is more of an opportunity than a test. It's no different than if you doubted the existence of camels. You ask others to bring a camel to your doorstep so you can observe one first hand. You're not testing others to see how they'll respond. You're not testing camels to see if they're interested in demonstrating to you that they exist. You're merely presenting an opportunity for camels to demonstrate to you that they do exist.

 

[Sedoy]

If a god did leave signs directing me to him, he didn't do a very good job.


I wasn't asking if it were a legitimate question. I asked if it were a legitimate request.

It is still not a legitimate request. God is not going to be tested.

As for “not doing a good job”. Pick up your own hand and look at it. How can such a marvelously designed thing exist? Do you know that one cell in your body is much more complex then the best Swiss watch? Pick up biology book and read up.

You have to be certifiably insane to suggest that Swiss watch just came together by chance from some minerals helped by lightning strikes yet some believe that much more complex then watch, living cell did come together by chance.

Even evolutionists admit that theory of evolution does not explain the origin of life. Life, even in most simple of forms is way to complex and irreducibly complex. There had to be a creator.
Since I cannot post links I sent you one.

The only reasonable and fact based question is: Who is the creator? The one that gave Ten Commandments or some aliens that gave none? Many choose second but what if aliens show up tomorrow with ten or hundred Ten Commandments of their own, then what?

 

[Akureyri]

Hi I have had some one make a similar request before. I am a person who can from time to time hear from God. See http://www.futureandahope.net for examples of how God has spoken to me.

I looked at that website and it isn't clear where the examples are.

When you hear from God, do you hear or see something which would be evident to another person, should they be present? If so, would the other person hear/see precisely the same thing you did?

However when I attempted to get the number for the last person who asked it was not correct. So I make no claim to be able to do this. However just incase it works this time I will give you a number.

4560143

That number is incorrect. Did you come up with that number yourself or did God provide it to you?

The only part you need to do is communicate back and forth with your god. If your god is real, knows everything and wants me to believe he exists, then by definition, he will tell you the number I'm thinking of.

 

[cerette]

God who talked personally to Noah, Moses, Abraham.......... is still the same God so He still talks to believers and followers. Many who believe that God is talking to them simply do not know His voice because they do not have personal relationship with God. They maybe listening to other voices of which there are many.

God is outside of time so He has time for everybody.

There are no promises in the Bible that God will talk personally to you and me. Yes He has spoken to others, but that doesn't imply that He will talk to us as well.

 

[cerette]

What evidence do you have that a god is the cause of nature?

What evidence do you have that the Bible is the word of God?

Nature didn't create itself, so it was created by the Creator. God is the Creator.
The Holy Spirit has awakened faith in my heart to see (believe) that the Bible is God's Word.

 

[Akureyri]

It is still not a legitimate request. God is not going to be tested.

Well, if your god is real, he has been tested - even though the intent of this is not to be a test.

As for “not doing a good job”. Pick up your own hand and look at it. How can such a marvelously designed thing exist?

Hands were not designed. They came about naturally.

Do you know that one cell in your body is much more complex then the best Swiss watch? Pick up biology book and read up.

Even if that's true, it does absolutely nothing to demonstrate that a god exists. My request would do far more to demonstrate that a god exists. I suspect you don't like my request because you strongly fear your god doesn't exist and as a result, you would never hear any number from him. Asking him for the number and getting no response would just strengthen the doubts you have about god existing. And as a Christian, you don't want that.

You have to be certifiably insane to suggest that Swiss watch just came together by chance from some minerals helped by lightning strikes yet some believe that much more complex then watch, living cell did come together by chance.

Let's say I roll a dice 50 times. It comes up:
23624144464221535434546616426632455151462141532333

What are the chances of that precise sequence of numbers coming up? It is so highly improbable that that precise sequence would come up. But it did! So therefore, a god must exist. Do you realize the absurdity of that?

Even evolutionists admit that theory of evolution does not explain the origin of life. Life, even in most simple of forms is way to complex and irreducibly complex. There had to be a creator.
Since I cannot post links I sent you one.

If there was a creator, then what created your creator?

The only reasonable and fact based question is: Who is the creator? The one that gave Ten Commandments or some aliens that gave none? Many choose second but what if aliens show up tomorrow with ten or hundred Ten Commandments of their own, then what?

Even if there was a creator, what evidence do you have that such creator would still be around after the creation?

 

[Akureyri]

There are no promises in the Bible that God will talk personally to you and me. Yes He has spoken to others, but that doesn't imply that He will talk to us as well.

We need to look at actions, not words wrote in a book.

If
a) you can communicate back and forth with God
b) God knows everything
c) God wants me to believe he exists
then it would follow that I would hear back from you the precise number I'm thinking of.

Since I don't, then either a, b or c is not true.

 

[Akureyri]

Nature didn't create itself, so it was created by the Creator. God is the Creator.
The Holy Spirit has awakened faith in my heart to see (believe) that the Bible is God's Word.

If God created nature, then what created God?

 

[cerette]

We need to look at actions, not words wrote in a book.

If
a) you can communicate back and forth with God
b) God knows everything
c) God wants me to believe he exists
then it would follow that I would hear back from you the precise number I'm thinking of.

Since I don't, then either a, b or c is not true.

You say we need to look at actions. God never said that. You don't define what we "need" to look at. You don't get to set the rules which God needs to follow. We are mere humans, we were created by God. We don't get to tell HIM how things should be.

 

[cerette]

If God created nature, then what created God?

Nothing and nobody. God is not created. He has no beginning and no end.

 

[Sedoy]

Hands were not designed. They came about naturally.

If you think that you are just overgrown monkey you will think like one and will never even begin to understand God.

 

[Akureyri]

You say we need to look at actions. God never said that. You don't define what we "need" to look at. You don't get to set the rules which God needs to follow. We are mere humans, we were created by God. We don't get to tell HIM how things should be.

Actions always speak louder than words. That's why it is better to look at God's actions (if he exists) than at the words written in the Bible. If God loves everyone and can do anything, but mass calamities and rapes of children occur, then we can tell by the fact such tragedies occur that the reports of a God who loves everyone and can do anything are inaccurate.

I'm not setting any rules for God to follow. However, if he wants me to believe he exists, then he'll have to show me he is real. If your God is real, he doesn't need to follow that rule. But if he wants me to believe he exists, he'll need to follow it. If your god is real, I'm giving him a very good opportunity to demonstrate to me that he exists. Ball is on his side of the court now - or will be once someone personally asks their god what number I'm thinking of.

 

[Akureyri]

Nothing and nobody. God is not created. He has no beginning and no end.

You can't set a rule that says everything has to be created and then posit something which doesn't need to be created. So that's an invalid proposition. If God created nature, then what created God. Let me know what created God, or your assertion that God created nature is invalid.

 

[Sedoy]

Well, if your god is real, he has been tested - even though the intent of this is not to be a test.

Now you are more of a "god" then God is! You are telling God what he must have created.
There is no way to test God. It does not exist. It was not created.

 

[cerette]

You can't set a rule that says everything has to be created and then posit something which doesn't need to be created. So that's an invalid proposition. If God created nature, then what created God. Let me know what created God, or your assertion that God created nature is invalid.

First, I never said that everything has to be created. I said that nature didn't create itself and that nature has a creator, namely God.
God has created everything that is created. The only thing that is not created is God, because He is not created but is eternal with no beginning or end.

 

[cerette]

Actions always speak louder than words. That's why it is better to look at God's actions (if he exists) than at the words written in the Bible. If God loves everyone and can do anything, but mass calamities and rapes of children occur, then we can tell by the fact such tragedies occur that the reports of a God who loves everyone and can do anything are inaccurate.

I'm not setting any rules for God to follow. However, if he wants me to believe he exists, then he'll have to show me he is real. If your God is real, he doesn't need to follow that rule. But if he wants me to believe he exists, he'll need to follow it. If your god is real, I'm giving him a very good opportunity to demonstrate to me that he exists. Ball is on his side of the court now - or will be once someone personally asks their god what number I'm thinking of.

You can look at lots of God's actions by reading about them in the Bible. I understand that you are horrified with the evil in the world, and so am I and all Christians, not to mention God. The "problem of evil" does however not prove that God doesn't exist. I can see how the limited human understanding of things could come to that false conclusion though, but if we recognize our limited ability to understand everything then there is no problem between God's existence and peoples' evil doings.

God has showed you He is real. You are spiritually dead and blind to see it though.

 

[Spaceman 3]

You can look at lots of God's actions by reading about them in the Bible. I understand that you are horrified with the evil in the world, and so am I and all Christians, not to mention God. The "problem of evil" does however not prove that God doesn't exist. I can see how the limited human understanding of things could come to that false conclusion though, but if we recognize our limited ability to understand everything then there is no problem between God's existence and peoples' evil doings.

God has showed you He is real. You are spiritually dead and blind to see it though.

If one believes the scriptures, then:

Lucifer was a perfect creation of God's (Ezekiel Ch.28 v.12-13)

Blameless, until iniquity was 'found' in him. (Ezekiel Ch.28 v.15)

Where did evil come from? Lucifer!

Who created Lucifer? God!

It seems to me to be more of a problem that God in fact created evil.