Is there two set of rules one in church and one in the world?

[Bluelion]

It's odd I have been pondering this same subject.

The only conclusion I could find as to Abraham telling a lie,was that it happened before the law of Moses and the 10 commandments.

As far as Noah it may have been his being a direct descendant from Adam.

That's not in there so I cannot say it is true,what is stated is what you have said.

Genesis: 6. 8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Ok this in not amid at you But hams comment about Abraham. I feel i must defend my earth father, long story to explain that but will if asked. Abraham did not lie sarah was very much his sister but his half sister, He never told a lie he just with held truth. The charge he lied is false.

 

[Bluelion]

To address the part I did not want to discuss which is an not the issue but one result of it. as I said the issue is two set of rules.

What twin is saying is there is two set of rules for women, they can not hold authority over a man in church but it is ok in the world. No one will admit to the hypocritical view that presents.

Frankly I don't believe any one truly believes women can not hold authority in church, because if they did they would teach it was a sin for a christian woman to hold any kind of authority and she could only be a wife and mother. They would teach this to there daughters, but the fact is no one will take that view. Because if they did the world would attack them with such force they would be wiped out. They could not stand against the world with that view. We know God's word can stand against heaven, earth, or hell. So why could these people not with stand it if they are so right? Maybe because it is not God's will. People turn against Christians more and more and people get there head cut off proclaiming Jesus, no one is going to do that to make women subornation to men.

It's not God's will women be subordinate, but it is His will they be equal.

I had to write a paper on Gen 3:16 and in fact after much research what i found was the word rule was not rule over the man but return to the man. So it would read the woman would desire would be to return to the man. Not rule over. Meaning the woman would long for a man companion her desire would be to be married and have children. The author suggested that the woman would find refuge in the man.

Now that is a different spin.

Now I know alot of people on here have an internet education, but I tried to re learn music theory on the internet and there is so much wrong and opposite information you can not learn music theory on the internet in general, how much more true is that with Christianity, so while you may feel your internet trumps my college education i disagree. there is something to be said about being trained by pastors which hold at minimal of a Masters Degree.

and I get called the arrogant one on here man.

 

[Hammster]

Ok this in not amid at you But hams comment about Abraham. I feel i must defend my earth father, long story to explain that but will if asked. Abraham did not lie sarah was very much his sister but his half sister, He never told a lie he just with held truth. The charge he lied is false.

A half-truth is a whole lie. Also, disobeying God (Hagar, anyone?) is a sin. So, defend him if you will. But Abraham was a sinner.

 

[twin1954]

To address the part I did not want to discuss which is an not the issue but one result of it. as I said the issue is two set of rules.

What twin is saying is there is two set of rules for women, they can not hold authority over a man in church but it is ok in the world. No one will admit to the hypocritical view that presents.

Frankly I don't believe any one truly believes women can not hold authority in church, because if they did they would teach it was a sin for a christian woman to hold any kind of authority and she could only be a wife and mother. They would teach this to there daughters, but the fact is no one will take that view. Because if they did the world would attack them with such force they would be wiped out. They could not stand against the world with that view. We know God's word can stand against heaven, earth, or hell. So why could these people not with stand it if they are so right? Maybe because it is not God's will. People turn against Christians more and more and people get there head cut off proclaiming Jesus, no one is going to do that to make women subornation to men.

It's not God's will women be subordinate, but it is His will they be equal.

I had to write a paper on Gen 3:16 and in fact after much research what i found was the word rule was not rule over the man but return to the man. So it would read the woman would desire would be to return to the man. Not rule over. Meaning the woman would long for a man companion her desire would be to be married and have children. The author suggested that the woman would find refuge in the man.

Now that is a different spin.

Now I know alot of people on here have an internet education, but I tried to re learn music theory on the internet and there is so much wrong and opposite information you can not learn music theory on the internet in general, how much more true is that with Christianity, so while you may feel your internet trumps my college education i disagree. there is something to be said about being trained by pastors which hold at minimal of a Masters Degree.

and I get called the arrogant one on here man.

First you have no idea what I or anyone else who holds to the Scriptures believes. Your logic is flawed in that I,at least, hold a consistent hermenutic concerning women. I can't do anything about what the world does so I must accept that it is God's providential working. It isn't a matter of equality or of ability but one of believing the Scriptures.

Second your logic is flawed because you are inconsistent in how you apply it. You want to be strict in how you judge people but loose in those areas that you disagree with the plain and clear teaching of the Scriptures. It isn't about two sets of rules but what do the Scriptures say.

Third you would again put the believer under a yoke of bondage with your rules. We are free not bound. We obey out of love not because we must in order to keep the rules.

Last it is very obvious that you can educate yourself right out of truth. I have known more than one highly educated intellectual who interprets the Scriptures with a natural ideology and have completely missed the meaning of the Scriptures.

 

[Hammster]

sure He was a sinner, but why are you attacking a man who walk closer to God than you? The Fact is all of us were blessed because of Abraham and his faith.

He did not tell a half truth. He was her brother that is a whole truth, He did not also say He was her Husband. What is your point any way? That he was a sinner fine, we all are, anything else?

care to point out where I was not civil? I was to busy reading the insults about me.

The point is that he's not the great man you're propping him up to be. He was worldly. He misled Pharaoh.

18 So Pharaoh called Abram and said, "What is this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she was your wife?
19 Why did you say, 'She is my sister,' so that I took her for my wife? Now then, here is your wife; take her, and go."
Genesis 12:18-19

Why did he do this? He was afraid. He was worldly. He didn't trust God like he should have. Just like with Hagar.

And I'm not attacking Abraham. I'm pointing out that putting him on a pedestal is a huge mistake.

 

[Edial]

This is a civil discussion, if you can not be civil please remove your self until you can.

The question I have is, is there two set of rules? Is there a set of rules we follow in church and set we follow in the world?

If yes please point to the different sets.

I think most of us live by different sets of rules.
And that is not necessarily bad.

At least we realize we should behave better in church.

The problem is when a person is problematic IN church.
There is little hope for such an individual.

Our outside life should conform to our church life - more and more as we grow.

Once we discipline ourselves to behave the rest of the week like we do on Sundays, the next step if learning how to love your neighbor AS yourself.

That is why when the churches become "worldly" there is little hope for individuals to improve their behavior.

And if our behavior is not improved we have an obstacle in our way to learning loving your neighbor AS yourself.

It's a process.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

 

[Bluelion]

I think most of us live by different sets of rules.
And that is not necessarily bad.

At least we realize we should behave better in church.

The problem is when a person is problematic IN church.
There is little hope for such an individual.

Our outside life should conform to our church life - more and more as we grow.

Once we discipline ourselves to behave the rest of the week like we do on Sundays, the next step if learning how to love your neighbor AS yourself.

That is why when the churches become "worldly" there is little hope for individuals to improve their behavior.

And if our behavior is not improved we have an obstacle in our way to learning loving your neighbor AS yourself.

It's a process.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

I understand we need a grace period a place where we can take baby steps. Maybe the world is that, but you know what thinking about it I think that is wrong. I think church should be a safe place for children of God to grow and learn. I understand you can not have uproar in church, but we in the church should be more forgiving then the world no? But often churches are not so forgiving and the world can be more accepting.

Maybe there should not be a line between church and world at all, for Christians we should always be in church. After all if we can not learn to love each other here when will we?

I see a hypocrisy in the whole thing I guess and it is a goal of mine to not be a hypocritical any more, so i am exploring it. The great thing about this place is we can change, grow. I thank God he showed me the joys of seeing something wrong in me and praying and putting work to change it, and then the satisfaction of changing it.

Thanks Edial gave me food for thought.

 

[mikedsjr]

Great everything back on track now. Oh and sorry i could not reply to you insulting me but i was studying you know to be that preacher some of you think I would be awful at. I wonder if you would speak to a disciple of a pastor this way? I believe I have found another issue for people being in the church and with out.

The previous church I did speak to the pastor the way I spoke to you. I told them, their preaching, whatever they spoke on at the time, was exegetically off the mark.

As I said before, Communion is the work of the church. It is to be done in church. You proclaimer you you can do it anywhere on your own is not supported in Scripture.

I find common sense only proves the two places are different. If they aren't, there is no need to assemble...AT ALL.

 

[Bluelion]

The previous church I did speak to the pastor the way I spoke to you. I told them, their preaching, whatever they spoke on at the time, was exegetically off the mark.

As I said before, Communion is the work of the church. It is to be done in church. You proclaimer you you can do it anywhere on your own is not supported in Scripture.

I find common sense only proves the two places are different. If they aren't, there is no need to assemble...AT ALL.

show me biblical where it says it is only to be done in church?

 

[Edial]

Dear posters.

If you are experiencing friction with each other please do not address each other directly, but address the post instead.

Instead of saying - "you make no sense" you may say "this post makes no sense". Instead of "you have flawed logic" you may say "this post has flawed logic".

It is the best way to avoid conflicts in the open forums.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

 

[Edial]

I understand we need a grace period a place where we can take baby steps. Maybe the world is that, but you know what thinking about it I think that is wrong. I think church should be a safe place for children of God to grow and learn. I understand you can not have uproar in church, but we in the church should be more forgiving then the world no? But often churches are not so forgiving and the world can be more accepting.

Maybe there should not be a line between church and world at all, for Christians we should always be in church. After all if we can not learn to love each other here when will we?

I see a hypocrisy in the whole thing I guess and it is a goal of mine to not be a hypocritical any more, so i am exploring it. The great thing about this place is we can change, grow. I thank God he showed me the joys of seeing something wrong in me and praying and putting work to change it, and then the satisfaction of changing it.

Thanks Edial gave me food for thought.

What should be and what is are two different things.

Church is a hospital and not a safe haven.
It has all the equipment and medicine to "make" people "right" with God.

All we have are 2 commandments to follow. Only 2, not 10, not even 613.

But in order to love MY neighbor AS MYSELF I need to start by "cleaning myself up" at least once a week to go to church.

There are 3 "yeasts" the Bible refers to that destroy the church. Slow type of a cancer ... since you guys are Baptists I do not need to show you verses ...

Yeast of Pharisees - false teachings
Yeast of Sadducees - lawyers, legalism,
Yeast of Herod - politics (external and internal), being #1

These 3 kill the church.

These 3 types of yeast, keep people from following the 2nd commandment.
And when the 2nd is not followed, the 1st is definitely not followed regardless of how much we claim we love God.
We love theology, or liturgy, or coffee hour ... but not God.

Cannot love God without loving your neighbor.

Concerning forgiveness. There should be no forgiveness in church when people willingly break these 3.
The world forgives, the church should not. Otherwise the yeast will make everyone ill and even kill some.

Concerning the hypocrisy of having 2 sets of rules.
It is a hypocrisy, yet we must embrace it, because confession is the best medicine.
I am a hypocrite because I smile at church and yell at people outside of it.
Embrace it. Confess it.

Then gradually our life will adjust to the way we "try" behaving in church.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

 

[Bluelion]

What should be and what is are two different things.

Church is a hospital and not a safe haven.
It has all the equipment and medicine to "make" people "right" with God.

All we have are 2 commandments to follow. Only 2, not 10, not even 613.

But in order to love MY neighbor AS MYSELF I need to start by "cleaning myself up" at least once a week to go to church.

There are 3 "yeasts" the Bible refers to that destroy the church. Slow type of a cancer ... since you guys are Baptists I do not need to show you verses ...

Yeast of Pharisees - false teachings
Yeast of Sadducees - lawyers, legalism,
Yeast of Herod - politics (external and internal), being #1

These 3 kill the church.

These 3 types of yeast, keep people from following the 2nd commandment.
And when the 2nd is not followed, the 1st is definitely not followed regardless of how much we claim we love God.
We love theology, or liturgy, or coffee hour ... but not God.

Cannot love God without loving your neighbor.

Concerning forgiveness. There should be no forgiveness in church when people willingly break these 3.
The world forgives, the church should not. Otherwise the yeast will make everyone ill and even kill some.

Concerning the hypocrisy of having 2 sets of rules.
It is a hypocrisy, yet we must embrace it, because confession is the best medicine.
I am a hypocrite because I smile at church and yell at people outside of it.
Embrace it. Confess it.

Then gradually our life will adjust to the way we "try" behaving in church.

Thanks,
In Christ,
Ed

wow I never heard of the 3 yeast like that. That is interesting. I can see those 3 corrupting the church. Can you show me where Jesus dealt with these issues and Handled it the way you suggested?

I would like to figure this out, this is fun

I know Jesus rebuke the Sadducees for legalism. But he was also ready to forgive if they turned from there ways.

Did Jesus deal with false teaching? I can't come up with anything there off the top of my head.

He dealt with politics when he spoke about their traditions coming before God's Law.

Some says these 3 should also be applied out side of church, like Christians should not participate in politics, do you agree with that?

The story of Lot is often used as a lesson about the company you keep, this should be applied in the world as well, but how does one apply this rule and still minister to sinner like we all are. Jesus kept some odd company for the time no? Jesus said the health have no need of doctor but the sick do. So what is the answer with that?

Awesome Edial thanks I am learning here.

blu

 

[Edial]

wow I never heard of the 3 yeast like that. That is interesting. I can see those 3 corrupting the church. Can you show me where Jesus dealt with these issues and Handled it the way you suggested?

I would like to figure this out, this is fun

I know Jesus rebuke the Sadducees for legalism. But he was also ready to forgive if they turned from there ways.

Of course. Once one turns one is OK.

Sadduccees were legalists and intellectuals.
If their mind does not grasp - it cannot be true.

Did Jesus deal with false teaching? I can't come up with anything there off the top of my head.

Of course.
The verse about Corban in Mark someplace where he said the teachings of man destroy the teachings of God.
Any theological view, interpretation, commentary that contradicts the plain Bible is a teaching of men.

He dealt with politics when he spoke about their traditions coming before God's Law.

Yes, but politics have to do with yeast of Herod.
Regular politics we see on TV and church. Wanting to get top positions. Campaigning for yourself. Destroying the competition. Competition.
There is no such things as a 'friendly competition'.

Some says these 3 should also be applied out side of church, like Christians should not participate in politics, do you agree with that?

... Jesus avoided politics like a plague.
His disciples however (including his brothers) wanted to make him a King. In John they even advised Jesus to show up in Jerusalem and do things that would make people impressed. Politics.

We often follow Christ's disciples and not Christ.

To be a good politician you need to be a good liar. People need to believe your lies. It is impossible to be a politician and tell the whole truth.

The story of Lot is often used as a lesson about the company you keep, this should be applied in the world as well, but how does one apply this rule and still minister to sinner like we all are. Jesus kept some odd company for the time no? Jesus said the health have no need of doctor but the sick do. So what is the answer with that?

The answer is what Jesus was doing all His life - lead by example.

Everyone knows no one really understood what he was talking about anyway.

One of the church fathers said - preach the gospel ... use words if necessary.
2nd commandment.

And since it is hard to do, all we do is preach then growl the rest of the time.
Apostle Paul preached as well as was a great example and wrote some of the greatest verses on love.

Our church is really, really sick ... so we have little example to lead by.
How can I love my neighbor AS myself?

Start working on yourself.
Be aware of the yeasts. They are everywhere.
Confess you are a hypocrite.
And in few months one would see that love and compassion towards others would awaken, but never outside of the context of the word of God.

 

[now faith]

Abraham lied twice about his wife and slept with Hagar. Noah was just as wicked as his neighbors. He wasn't rewarded. God showed grace.

Sleeping with Hagar,was not a sin of adultery.

The sin was the lack of faith Abraham showed by allowing Sarah to convince him she was barren.

It was commonplace in future generations for men to sleep with their Hand maids for the puprose of procreation.

As well to have more than one wife.


Genesis: 30. 2. And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb? 3. And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees that I may also have children by her. 4. And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her. 5. And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son. 6. And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan. 7. And Bilhah Rachel's maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son. 8. And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali. 9. When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. 10. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son. 11. And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad. 12. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a second son.


As well we see the same lie being told by Isaac as far as his sister.

Genesis: 26. 7. And the men of the place asked him of his wife; and he said, She is my sister: for he feared to say, She is my wife; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she was fair to look upon. 8. And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife. 9. And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she is thy wife: and how saidst thou, She is my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her. 10. And Abimelech said, What is this thou hast done unto us? one of the people might lightly have lien with thy wife, and thou shouldest have brought guiltiness upon us.

There is no mention of Isaac sinning for doing so.

 

[now faith]

Reply Abraham:

God Blessed Isaac in the land of his enemy's.

Genesis: 26. 12. Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him. 13. And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great: 14. For he had possession of flocks, and possessions of herds, and great store of servants: and the Philistines envied him.

Genesis: 25. 20. And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padan-aram, the sister to Laban the Syrian. 21. And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.


Abraham as well kept Concubine's :

Genesis: 25. 6. But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

These would be for procreation,as well.

 

[now faith]

Am speaking about this thread speciifically. There are things that happened before that relate, but the problem is here, and with what you are trying to say.

I had tried to say that there is a certain decorum we use in a formal meeting of the Church that we do not use when playing in the backyard. However, if we think it is acceptable to sin outside of Church, but not inside of there, we do not understand.


There is a LIE in saying Abraham lied. Sara was his sister. God never rebukes him for it. It was no lie. This is a ploy to excuse our own sin, as people like to say, "Well, Abraham did it, and he got away with it!"

I'll likely not respond anymore because people here seem to like to excuse bad behavior, and lump certain candid speech in with sin. Had already given up on this thread because of that.

I cannot find where the generations show Sarah/ Sarai to be his sister.
Can you give me point of references?

Genesis: 11. 29. And Abram and Nahor took them wives: the name of Abram's wife was Sarai; and the name of Nahor's wife, Milcah, the daughter of Haran, the father of Milcah, and the father of Iscah. 30. But Sarai was barren; she had no child. 31. And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

The term that refers to Sarah daughter in law of Terah who was Abraham's father.

But I agree if by Grace Abraham lied before the law was written,it is not justification for us to lie.

 

[Hammster]

Sleeping with Hagar,was not a sin of adultery.

The sin was the lack of faith Abraham showed by allowing Sarah to convince him she was barren.

It was commonplace in future generations for men to sleep with their Hand maids for the puprose of procreation.

As well to have more than one wife.


Genesis: 30. 2. And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb? 3. And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees that I may also have children by her. 4. And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her. 5. And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son. 6. And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan. 7. And Bilhah Rachel's maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son. 8. And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali. 9. When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife. 10. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a son. 11. And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad. 12. And Zilpah Leah's maid bare Jacob a second son.


As well we see the same lie being told by Isaac as far as his sister.

Genesis: 26. 7. And the men of the place asked him of his wife; and he said, She is my sister: for he feared to say, She is my wife; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she was fair to look upon. 8. And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife. 9. And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she is thy wife: and how saidst thou, She is my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her. 10. And Abimelech said, What is this thou hast done unto us? one of the people might lightly have lien with thy wife, and thou shouldest have brought guiltiness upon us.

There is no mention of Isaac sinning for doing so.

One, I never said that Abraham's sin was adultery. But it was, as you stated, a sin.

Two, not every action need be identified as a sin in order for it to be a sin.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

Folks, this thread has undergone a clean up.

There was some very wise advice in post # 70:
​

If you are experiencing friction with each other please do not address each other directly, but address the post instead.

Instead of saying - "you make no sense" you may say "this post makes no sense". Instead of "you have flawed logic" you may say "this post has flawed logic".

It is the best way to avoid conflicts in the open forums.

If you do not care for a particular member's posts, put them on ignore. If you feel the member flamed you, report then do not respond to them. There is no need to correct grammar, or accuse others of being uncivil, or make demands. What you do need to do is focus on the topic, on content and remember that we are brothers and sisters in Christ and to treat each other as we would like to be treated ourselves.

Be nice
​

 

[mikedsjr]

blue,

Acts 2:42

And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

Acts 20:7

On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. But Paul went down and bent over him, and taking him in his arms, said, “Do not be alarmed, for his life is in him.” And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten, he conversed with them a long while, until daybreak, and so departed.

The underlying question i see missing is: Was the church instituted by God to gather in what we define as a "church"? If so, What purpose was the church instituted for? Did God institute the ministry of what we call Pastor? And if so, What did God institute them for?

My concern is as modern Protestantism has continued to evolve, it has forgotten all the legitimate reasoning of the traditions passed on. In doing so, church has become whatever anyone decides it is supposed to be and it looks exactly like the world politically and socially when it isn't supposed to be. The reason some churches don't stand out from the world is due to bringing the world into the church and removing what mattered. The reason some other churches stand out too much is because their so legalistic their hate is even self-evident to all but them. Then there is a many churches who are too apathetic to concern themselves and they are nearly like luke warm water.

It doesn't matter what day people come together. It doesn't matter what they location looks like brick and mortar, stone, a field or on a boat. When people come together in God's name, this is where communion, breaking of bread, should take place.

 

[FredVB]

All we have are 2 commandments to follow. Only 2, not 10, not even 613.
But in order to love MY neighbor AS MYSELF I need to start by "cleaning myself up" at least once a week to go to church.
There are 3 "yeasts" the Bible refers to that destroy the church.
Yeast of Pharisees - false teachings
Yeast of Sadducees - lawyers, legalism,
Yeast of Herod - politics (external and internal), being #1
These 3 kill the church.
These 3 types of yeast, keep people from following the 2nd commandment.
And when the 2nd is not followed, the 1st is definitely not followed regardless of how much we claim we love God.
We love theology, or liturgy, or coffee hour ... but not God.
Cannot love God without loving your neighbor.
Concerning forgiveness. There should be no forgiveness in church when people willingly break these 3.

We have the two commandments, the great two, to obey. This being true, that on these all the law (and the prophets) depend, does not mean we would not do the morality that they show there should be. Rather, all that could never be done, as called for, without doing the commandments to love, and none of these would be done, apart from coming to the redemption that is through Christ.

Being clean in Christ should be an ongoing thing, beyond when we would go to church. And loving Yahweh God and our neighbor is something in which we grow as we are to do, with life in Christ. And indeed loving God means loving others, as Yahweh God loves his creatures.

But there are just three yeasts, or types of yeasts? There is the yeast in food still, that we likely have, we may think of other yeasts that there are. Still yeast all represents sin, and indeed it was never indicated by God for our food.

There should be repentance for sins, so there will be change. When that is there, how can there not be forgiveness? The Lord Jesus Christ called for that.

There was a good point from Mikedsjr that when believers join together in fellowship as church there should be breaking bread as communion then, it is not done so much, but I see how it should be. This of course should be with real fellowship in Christ there.