Is there life after physical death, and is there a God?

[awitch]

True Christianity isn't about rules as much it is about loving all people, not just in word, but in deeds as well.

That's a nice sentiment, but it's hard to take that claim seriously.
At least it's good to know I can continue being a Witch and not face any divine repercussions from your god.

 

[RBPerry]

Psalms 72,
A prayer by King David that his son Solomon be granted wisdom to provide justice.

In the darkness that the world is plunged into,

May the Messiah come speedily in our days.

Oh, ya, King David. How many wives and concubines did he have, and that wasn't enough, he had to grab one of his friends wives, then made sure his friend got killed. However he did repent of his sin.

 

[RBPerry]

That's a nice sentiment, but it's hard to take that claim seriously.
At least it's good to know I can continue being a Witch and not face any divine repercussions from your god.

That is the thing about free will, you can be whatever you want. How God deals with negative behavior is totally up to Him. I can understand why someone would have issues with unconditional love, not all professing Christians display it.

 

[Robban]

Oh, ya, King David. How many wives and concubines did he have, and that wasn't enough, he had to grab one of his friends wives, then made sure his friend got killed. However he did repent of his sin.

It was the custom of the time when men were to go into battle they would divorce themselves from their wives,
in case they did not return.
So Bat Sheba was probably divorced.

The evening before David and Uriah met and Uriah
took a threatening tone toward David,
something that could be classed as treason,
and merited the death penalty.

So far so good, may have been Davids resoning

This is just one way of telling the story.

But like the song;
"There is a crack in everything."

Happy Passover.

 

[Mitty]

Oh, ya, King David. How many wives and concubines did he have, and that wasn't enough, he had to grab one of his friends wives, then made sure his friend got killed. However he did repent of his sin.

And although David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7), the love with Jonathon was more wonderful than with any of his wives and concubines (2Sam 1:26).

 

[FireDragon76]

I do believe consciousness continues after death, however, near death experiences are a mixture of transpersonal archetypes and cultural conditioning. In fact, one of the things emphasized in esoteric Buddhism is to realize that they are projections of ones own mind, so that one may obtain liberation even through death.

This is why Christians see Jesus, Buddhists see Buddha, Muslims see Muhammed, etc.

 

[RBPerry]

I do believe consciousness continues after death, however, near death experiences are a mixture of transpersonal archetypes and cultural conditioning. In fact, one of the things emphasized in esoteric Buddhism is to realize that they are projections of ones own mind, so that one may obtain liberation even through death.

This is why Christians see Jesus, Buddhists see Buddha, Muslims see Muhammed, etc.

There are two problems with your belief, first if a person that is clinically brain dead the brain can not create thought patterns, this has been proven with EEG's. Second you have hundreds of people that have had out of body experiences that were verified to be true. If you believe consciousness continues beyond our physical life, then you must believe that the spirit and the physical body are separate.
It is human nature to be skeptical of things we don't fully understand, but to me anyone making an honest evaluation of the information that is available would find it very difficult to present evidence to dispute it. We can believe anything we want, that doesn't make it true. As for people meeting Jesus or Buddha there is another problem, then why have so many atheist had encounters with Jesus since many don't even believe in life after death or God. Study the atheist that have had NDE and the majority are no longer atheist.

 

[RBPerry]

It was the custom of the time when men were to go into battle they would divorce themselves from their wives,
in case they did not return.
So Bat Sheba was probably divorced.

The evening before David and Uriah met and Uriah
took a threatening tone toward David,
something that could be classed as treason,
and merited the death penalty.

So far so good, may have been Davids resoning

This is just one way of telling the story.

But like the song;
"There is a crack in everything."

Happy Passover.

No, that is just turning the bible account into a lie. How you came up with that reasoning is beyond me. David committed adultery then had the husband killed to hide his sin. I guess that's why the Jewish people can't realize that Jesus is the messiah and fulfilled the prophesies that told of his coming. Lets be honest, the Jewish leadership and Romans couldn't come up with a body.

 

[Robban]

No, that is just turning the bible account into a lie. How you came up with that reasoning is beyond me. David committed adultery then had the husband killed to hide his sin. I guess that's why the Jewish people can't realize that Jesus is the messiah and fulfilled the prophesies that told of his coming. Lets be honest, the Jewish leadership and Romans couldn't come up with a body.

Why the need to send a prophet to let David know?

 

[Robban]

Why the need to send a prophet to let David know?

The prophet Nathan told David a story,

on hearing the the the story David was outraged,

then when told he was the main character in the story
he was crushed, devistated.

He repented yet, for the rest of his life this sin was
before his eyes.

Something to think about.

 

[FireDragon76]

There are two problems with your belief, first if a person that is clinically brain dead the brain can not create thought patterns, this has been proven with EEG's.

I think you misunderstand. I am not a materialist, more like an idealist. Mind or consciousness is the fundamental substrate of reality. At the same time, I am not a theist because I don't anthropomorphosize this reality.

Second you have hundreds of people that have had out of body experiences that were verified to be true. If you believe consciousness continues beyond our physical life, then you must believe that the spirit and the physical body are separate.
It is human nature to be skeptical of things we don't fully understand, but to me anyone making an honest evaluation of the information that is available would find it very difficult to present evidence to dispute it. We can believe anything we want, that doesn't make it true. As for people meeting Jesus or Buddha there is another problem, then why have so many atheist had encounters with Jesus since many don't even believe in life after death or God. Study the atheist that have had NDE and the majority are no longer atheist.

NDE's in non-western cultures do not involve Jesus/God.

An atheist in a western culture that has an NDE has subconscious material that causes them to have an affinity for a God archetype, since it is still part of the background of their psyche.

 

[Larniavc]

Then your (Post Physical Existence Theory) is a total assumption with you statement (It could be) you can rule in or out anything that you so desire to.

You cannot out of hand just say what I have said is NOT TRUE.

The Post Physical Existence Christians know about and acknowledge is Hell and the Lake of Fire, I do not think you would believe that to be a nice suprise.

It's not an assumption because I am not assuming it to be either correct or incorrect. I don;t think 'assumption' means what you think it means.

I'd like there to be a post physical existence but I have seen no evidence to support any claim that there is one.

 

[RBPerry]

I think you misunderstand. I am not a materialist, more like an idealist. Mind or consciousness is the fundamental substrate of reality. At the same time, I am not a theist because I don't anthropomorphosize this reality.



NDE's in non-western cultures do not involve Jesus/God.

An atheist in a western culture that has an NDE has subconscious material that causes them to have an affinity for a God archetype, since it is still part of the background of their psyche.

Very interesting, your beliefs seem to mimic the early Gnostic Christians. This reality as you call it is all we have while we are living in a physical body, we can gain insights based on the experience others have had. I can agree that NDE that are not accompanied by a clinical brain death can be suspect, however when you look at the similarities of the stories and the research that has been done and is on going it builds a very strong case for a level of accuracy.

 

[FireDragon76]

Very interesting, your beliefs seem to mimic the early Gnostic Christians.

Maybe it seems that way to you, but I come to those conclusions largely independent on those ideas. It has more to do with familiarity with comparative religions and critiques of theism in general (such as Ludwig Feuerbach's critique of theistic anthropomorphism), seeing that as the most likely explanation.

Mostly what we know about the Gnostics is from their critics who wished to define them. Some of the Church fathers didn't exactly demonstrate integrity in dealing with groups they deemed heretical, in that regard.

This reality as you call it is all we have while we are living in a physical body, we can gain insights based on the experience others have had. I can agree that NDE that are not accompanied by a clinical brain death can be suspect, however when you look at the similarities of the stories and the research that has been done and is on going it builds a very strong case for a level of accuracy.

NDE's don't fit into any particular orthodox religion perfectly, but they match Christian orthodoxy least of all. I just don't see the support for Christian afterlife beliefs in them, beyond the vague notion that consciosuness continues, at least for a time, after death.

 

[RBPerry]

Maybe it seems that way to you, but I come to those conclusions largely independent on those ideas. It has more to do with familiarity with comparative religions and critiques of theism in general (such as Ludwig Feuerbach's critique of theistic anthropomorphism), seeing that as the most likely explanation.

Mostly what we know about the Gnostics is from their critics who wished to define them. Some of the Church fathers didn't exactly demonstrate integrity in dealing with groups they deemed heretical, in that regard.



NDE's don't fit into any particular orthodox religion perfectly, but they match Christian orthodoxy least of all. I just don't see the support for Christian afterlife beliefs in them, beyond the vague notion that consciosuness continues, at least for a time, after death.

First of all Feuerbach was an anthropologist and if I remember right he grew up in a Lutheran home in the 1800, so his beliefs were basically just a rejection of whatever experience he had with the church and his family. I certainly wouldn't hold his theory as having a great deal of validity when it comes to theist beliefs.

You are correct that NDE do not fit into orthodox Christian thinking and that is why I am an unorthodox Christian. Many of the scrolls found in Egypt actually shed light on what the Gnostic's believed. Bottom line is they believed knowledge was the key to knowing God not just faith.

All any of us can do is evaluate the information that is available and make our own decisions as to what we want to believe. The trick is to evaluate with an open mind and not let the evidence become clouded with our own presuppositions.

 

[FireDragon76]

First of all Feuerbach was an anthropologist and if I remember right he grew up in a Lutheran home in the 1800, so his beliefs were basically just a rejection of whatever experience he had with the church and his family. I certainly wouldn't hold his theory as having a great deal of validity when it comes to theist beliefs.

Feuerbach's observation that "God" is merely "humanity writ large" was not merely a rejection of Lutheranism. It has a great deal of validity in my mind because spending years on this forum has demonstrated to me that his theory has a great deal of evidence behind it: people do tend to make "God" in their own image to satisfy psychological needs. Therefore, a worldview based on the God concept is always going to face the challenges of dealing with those biases.

You are correct that NDE do not fit into orthodox Christian thinking and that is why I am an unorthodox Christian.

If you are unorthodox, the you shouldn't identify as a Christian per the forum rules. That is why I stopped identifying as a Christian. It's just a matter of honesty and integrity.

Many of the scrolls found in Egypt actually shed light on what the Gnostic's believed. Bottom line is they believed knowledge was the key to knowing God not just faith.

"Gnosticism" isn't a singular thing, but seems to be a variegated religious movement influenced by trends in Greek and Asian religion- the Ancient Near East after all was a crossroads of civilizations.

 

[RBPerry]

If you are unorthodox, the you shouldn't identify as a Christian per the forum rules. That is why I stopped identifying as a Christian. It's just a matter of honesty and integrity.

"Gnosticism" isn't a singular thing, but seems to be a variegated religious movement influenced by trends in Greek and Asian religion- the Ancient Near East after all was a crossroads of civilizations.

As for identifying myself as a Christian merely means I believe Jesus Christ was and is the prophesied messiah, what the church has done with Christianity to me is problematic starting with Constantine and the Catholic church deciding what should and shouldn't be in the original cannon. What most orthodox or fundamentalist Christians don't understand is they were only given what Constantine allowed them to at the first counsel, not only that Constantine was trying to keep the sun god worshipers happy and that is why the day of worship was changed from Saturday to Sunday. Most Christians today know very little or nothing about how the so called "orthodox" beliefs were established.

I don't agree with all the Gnostic beliefs that I have read, however they did have some good insights. The Catholic church took care of them by using the nights of Templar as their hatched men.

As for Christians needing make God in their own image or the image of Christ may have some validity because I personally believe fully understanding the spiritual world is beyond our comprehension. We can't see, feel, or touch God, so it is understandable that one might conjure up a mental image to fill in that void. That doesn't imply or diminish the reality of God.