Is there anyone else better than Biden or Trump for President?

[A2SG]

I don't think the SCOTUS will affirm the argument either....because Trump’s lawyers never made it.

From Trump's motion to dismiss: To ensure the President may serve unhesitatingly, without fear that his political opponents may one day prosecute him for decisions they dislike, the law provides absolute immunity “for acts within the ‘outer perimeter’ of [the President’s] official responsibility.”

That's the argument.

It was a purely hypothetical question posed by a judge to one of Trump's lawyers....not an actual argument he made.

The question was regarding the limits of "absolute immunity" that Trump argued for. That, absolute immunity, is the argument I was referring to.

One has to read the article itself to understand the title of the article is mere click bait and the first two paragraphs so strangely worded that it is arguably deliberately confusing. From the article provided by the OP....

Former President Trump’s legal team suggested Tuesday that even a president directing SEAL Team Six to kill a political opponent would be an action barred from prosecution given a former executive’s broad immunity to criminal prosecution.

The legal basis for this is found in the fact that yes....presidents have ordered the assassination of USA citizens abroad....without a trial or even attempted capture. This is typically done by drone strikes though....not Seal Team Six. They're a bit too recognizable. It would be more of a job for Delta or CIA contractors or CIA Special Operations Division than SEAL Team 6. That's only in situations where a drone strike is unavailable or unlikely to leave an identifiable body.

If the political rival were a member of a terrorist organization or working with a or on behalf of a foreign government to undermine US national security...then the fact that they are a political rival means little.

So where is the limitation preventing a president from taking this action against a political opponent?

You seem to be assuming there are limitations to the absolute immunity Trump is arguing for. What are they? Where are they specified?

The hypothetical was presented to Trump attorney John Sauer who answered with a “qualified yes” that a former president would be immune from prosecution on that matter or even on selling pardons.

The first sentence here makes it rather clear that the question was one that was purely hypothetical, and asked of Trump's lawyers by a judge. It was not an "argument" put forth by a defense attorney such as "self defense" or "insanity".

The argument was for immunity from prosecution for criminal acts.

So I agree...it's unlikely that the judge will rule in favor of a hypothetical limitation on presidential immunity that the judge himself came up with and was never a part of the defenses argument.

The judge didn't come up with the charges. The prosecution did. Trump is arguing to dismiss the charges based on an argument for absolute immunity. That argument was denied by the judge, and denied when that decision was appealed.

Trump has appealed to the Supreme Court, based on the same argument.

It's fun to pretend though, isn't it?

You're the only one pretending here.

Or, at least, you seem unclear on what's going on here. I suggest you do some reading on the subject.

-- A2SG, I'll even give you a place to start....

 

[Ana the Ist]

Biden isn't a prosecutor, he hasn't gone after anyone.

Biden is the head of the DOJ and FBI. I don't know what you think the president does but he sets the agendas of the departments and agencies under the executive branch.

Wray answers to Garland and Garland answers to Biden. It's that simple.

There is a seperation between the White house and the Justice Department.

Remarkable. What exactly is stopping Hunter from being charged with tax evasion then? They only have all the evidence they need to put him away for years. I know they tried to squeeze him through the sweetheart deal of the millennia but even that was so corrupt a judge from Biden's home state wasn't having it.

Biden can't order himself be investigated and he can't order D Trump be investigated.

Really? So we won't see any collusion between the white house and Jack Smith or Fani Willis?

I mean...you're in some fantasy world or something. How is Jack Smith going to prosecute a case about federal classified documents seized by the FBI without working with them and the DOJ? Is he supposed to guess what happened?

We already know that Fani Willis' lead side piece had a sit down with the White House.

Trump Goes After Records Between White House, Fani Willis Lawyer

Former President Donald Trump is demanding records that he says might show coordination between the Biden administration and prosecutors in Georgia related to charges brought against him for election interference.

www.bloomberg.com

Given that these cases seem to have directly coordinated with the Biden administration, what makes you think any of this is an impartial process of justice? Jack Smith is trying to deny Trump's right to face his accusers....the whole thing is a travesty.

For what?

Illegal possession and disclosure of highly classified documents....at minimum.

Are the House Republicans looking into this?

They're subpoenaing the transcripts between the special prosecutor and Biden.

Do they have any evidence supporting this allegation?

There's the special prosecutor's report basically saying he's guilty but it's not provable beyond a reasonable doubt because he's also got a bowl of cold oatmeal for brains.

That ought to be a fun read. I think Garland or Wray should release it....since there is no way either of them would keep their jobs in 2025 regardless of whomever wins.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yeah, he did.

From Trump's motion to dismiss: To ensure the President may serve unhesitatingly, without fear that his political opponents may one day prosecute him for decisions they dislike, the law provides absolute immunity “for acts within the ‘outer perimeter’ of [the President’s] official responsibility.”

That's an argument for presidential immunity....a longstanding legal precedent. It's not an argument that he's allowed to assassinate political rivals.

You'll notice nowhere in the part you quoted does it claim that the president can assassinate political rivals .

 

[A2SG]

That's an argument for presidential immunity....a longstanding legal precedent.

Not in the sense that Trump is arguing for. There is no specific provision in the Constitution or elsewhere precluding criminal prosecution for criminal acts taken while President after his term has ended.

It's not an argument that he's allowed to assassinate political rivals.

I never claimed that was the argument. A fact that will be proven in your next post when you fail to quote me saying that.

You'll notice nowhere in the part you quoted does it claim that the president can assassinate political rivals .

Nor does it say he can interfere in the results of an election.

-- A2SG, and that's what he was indicted for....this time....

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'm sorry, I missed where you documented where those "certain circumstances" were specifically defined.

Well I'm assuming that is what they meant....since US presidents have killed US citizens in the past and no one is holding them accountable.

I don't recall any limits being specifically defined for the absolute Presidential immunity Trump's legal team is arguing for. Perhaps you can point to where that is.

I don't need to. The point is they're arguing presidential immunity. Not a right to assassinate political rivals .

Has anyone other than the judge who asked the hypothetical brought up assassination?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Not in the sense that Trump is arguing for. There is no specific provision in the Constitution or elsewhere precluding criminal prosecution for criminal acts taken while President after his term has ended.

Are we talking about the same thing?

His lawyers were arguing for immunity related to January 6th.

His term ended on January 20th.

January 6th happened during his term in office.

 

[stevil]

Biden is the head of the DOJ and FBI.

LOL. Biden was elected President of USA. There are other people that are the head of DOJ and FBI.

Biden isn't everywhere, doing everything.

 

[Ana the Ist]

LOL. Biden was elected President of USA.

Right....not only does he appoint the Attorney General that runs the DOJ, but he also appoints the head of the FBI....or he would, if the head of the FBI wasn't already his guy.

I mean...I guess I could show you a picture, but you seem particularly resistant to facts.

There are other people that are the head of DOJ and FBI.

And they do what Biden tells them to do....because he's their boss. In fact, it's been a problem brought up by whistleblowers in the FBI.

Here's another chart of just the DOJ....I don't want you getting confused here.

That's just the DOJ. You can see the FBI on the bottom right.

Opinion | FBI agent who aired his grievances to Trump-loving senators blew the whistle on himself

It’s a sign of our times that the FBI must simultaneously police its own misguided agents, while it works to protect us.

www.google.com

That's the propagandists at MSNBC smearing an FBI agent who spoke up and said that many people arrested for January 6th were innocent of anything except perhaps misdemeanor trespassing and the use of FBI SWAT teams to arrest them was not only inappropriate but put them, their family members, and others in unnecessary danger. This shameless left wing propaganda outlet decided to frame this as an example of a "dangerous Trump extremist" infiltrating the FBI.

Now, to be fair....the full footage of January 6th hadn't been released wayyyyy back in 2021 so a lot of people (including the author here) wrongly believed that this was some sort of insurrection and anyone present must have been a domestic terrorist whereas they clearly understand that was all a lie and many of these people not only were allowed into the building by police but also the police made no attempts to stop them.....essentially making them a little worse than the average tourist.

Meanwhile, in Seattle....

Seattle will pay $10 million to protesters who said police used excessive force during 2020 protests

Seattle has agreed to pay $10 million to 50 demonstrators who sued over the police department's heavy-handed response to racial justice protests in 2020.

apnews.com

Using tear gas, pepper spray, paintballs loaded with pepper spray, and other non-lethal tools to disperse a crowd that had burned down a police station, taken over 6 city blocks with guns and barricades, and regularly assaulted police with bottles, bricks, rocks, and fists....they aren't getting labeled as domestic terrorists, they're getting labeled as "peaceful protesters" who are "victims of police violence" and deserve a 10 million dollar payout (which is their own money of course....since it doesn't come out of police funding). Oddly, despite actual domestic terrorism occurring and a genuine insurrection that overthrew 6 city blocks for weeks....almost nobody faced any serious or long term punishments.

It's a 2 tiered system of justice that has caused police shortages in nearly every major city and of course, contributed to the large increases in crime.

A problem which, much like the border, Biden has chosen to either ignore or lie about.

Biden isn't everywhere, doing everything.

I agree...and that's the scary part....because he's clearly got a bowl of gespacho in his head and he's not making any decisions or plans on anything. I don't think he could plan a picnic with his wife and Hunter at this point.

That's why a lot of things that have been happening....nobody voted for. The school curriculum to teach children to be racist and try out being gay? Nobody voted for that...I'm certain of it. So what exactly is someone voting for when they vote for Biden? Who knows? What we do know is that those responsible for these terrible policies and decisions won't be held accountable.

 

[stevil]

Right....not only does he appoint the Attorney General that runs the DOJ, but he also appoints the head of the FBI....or he would, if the head of the FBI wasn't already his guy.

Christopher Wray was appointed by Trump.
And if there is a whistle blower process to highlight if the president is interferring then that shows that the president isn't controlling things.

 

[Ana the Ist]

LOL. Biden was elected President of USA. There are other people that are the head of DOJ and FBI.

Biden isn't everywhere, doing everything.

SPD: Rioters tried to trap officers inside burning precinct using rebar and concrete

Seattle police officers were forced to kick their way out of an East Precinct exit door Monday night, after rioters jammed it with boards and rebar, and attempted to seal the door closed with quick-dry cement.

www.google.com

Just in case you imagined I was making up the domestic terrorism threat in Seattle....give that a read. 100-150 peaceful protesters tried to barricade the exit to a police precinct before setting it on fire. That's not only arson.....it's attempted murder at that point...

Now, a fair and impartial DOJ probably would have spent some real effort in identifying and chasing down these actual domestic terrorists who attempted to burn alive many Seattle pokice...but it's almost as if nearly no progress has been made. They have, however, found that elderly woman who wandered through the Capitol at a leisurely pace.....never assaulting anyone nor bypassing barricades....and they charged her with literally everything they could.

Whether she got 18 months or probation....I know we can all sleep easier tonight knowing she's facing justice.

The reason why the DOJ and FBI have prioritized one group and not the other is simple....Biden's orders.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Christopher Wray was appointed by Trump.

And that really says it all....because most Trump appointees were immediately fired after Biden took office. The Attorney General Trump appointed? Fired. The DHS secretary Trump appointed? Fired. Nearly everyone Trump appointed to positions large and small....fired and told not to apply again under this administration.

Wray? He got to stay. Biden clearly thought he was the right man for the job. After all, when Trump was Nearly impeached for requesting an investigation into Biden's connections to the Ukraine? Wray could have easily squashed that by pointing out he possessed a deposition from a Burisma insider who claimed to have proof Biden took millions to fire Shokin for investigating Burisma. He didn't though....he kept his mouth shut. He claimed he isn't supposed to interfere in elections. He did interfere with the election though....as he sent agents to FB and Twitter to convince them that the story of Hunter's laptop containing evidence of corruption and bribery was Russian disinformation. He knew it wasn't Russian disinformation though....because he had the laptop in his possession for a year at that point and knew it was all genuine. Despite claims that the Democrats want to prevent the spread of disinformation...Wray not only didn't prevent the spread of misinformation, he helped the spread of Biden campaign disinformation. Then he also had an interest in protecting his own behind since he had dozens of agents embedded into Twitter at the time who were very busy ensuring that the opinions of ordinary citizens and experts were silenced online if they disagreed with Biden or his preferred narrative. It's a case so criminal it's been described by the judges overseeing it was the biggest violation of 1st amendment civil rights in US history.

And if there is a whistle blower process to highlight if the president is interferring then that shows that the president isn't controlling things.

I'm sorry....you must have meant to word that differently.

Are you saying that because a process exists for whistleblowers to come forward exists.....then that somehow shows you that "the president isn't controlling things"?

Is that what you meant to say or was it some sort of momentary lapse of thinking and you meant to say something else entirely?

I am assuming you meant to write something else because the above makes zero sense. Can you rewrite it in a way that reflects whatever you meant to say? If by some wild chance you did mean to write that....can you explain how those two things are connected in your mind?

 

[returntosender]

I'm asking the candidates, and the media to be grown up, smart people. Discuss issues. End the "gotcha debates"

Most feel there is no good candidate to ask questions of. It's too late for what you ask. Why not choose a candidate that the majority likes in both parties then all vote or write in and stick to it. For instance after i find out what he stands for and i agree i would pick the Kennedy.

 

[returntosender]

Someone ask of people "do you feel the country was any better 4 years ago than it is now?" Or do you think the country is any better now than it was 4 years ago. DO YOU?

 

[returntosender]

I think it's much worse and what we really wanted was the border fixed and trump was on it til they kicked him and now those that yelled at it with trump are all for it. Ridiculous!

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Someone ask of people "do you feel the country was any better 4 years ago than it is now?" Or do you think the country is any better now than it was 4 years ago. DO YOU?

What we think can be influened by what we want. Pure opinion.

But what are the objective metrics?

Yes. It helps when we look at the actual data. But can we agree on at least five of the most important economic indicators?

1. GDP In the third quarter, real GDP increased 4.9 percent
2. Unemployment 3.7%
3. Inflation (C.P.I) .3
4. Stocks S & P at 4,888 today

Are you better off than you were 3 years ago?

I am better off- careerwise, money-wise, and personally life-wise. I think the country is better off too. I'm not looking to go back in time- 50 years ago or to 2016.

www.christianforums.com

[/URL]

 

[JustOneWay]

I think it's much worse

Four years ago to the month is when most of the world shut down due to a pandemic. Did you object to the mask mandate? It seems that was the worst thing in the world for many.

and what we really wanted was the border fixed

The Senate had a bi-partisan bill which could have passed at least the senate until Trump stopped it. Trump does not want it fixed. Give him some of the blame.

and trump was on it til they kicked him

I assume the next word would have been 'out' but you left us hanging, unless you are saying somebody kicked him like kicking a sleeping bear. Trump lost the election. He was kicked out of office. Now it is retribution time....

and now those that yelled at it with trump are all for it.

Yelled at what?

Ridiculous!

Indeed.

 

[stevil]

Most feel there is no good candidate to ask questions of. It's too late for what you ask. Why not choose a candidate that the majority likes in both parties then all vote or write in and stick to it. For instance after i find out what he stands for and i agree i would pick the Kennedy.

I presume most Democrat supporters don't like RFK Jr due to his anti vax stance. If there is another global pandemic under his watch he probably wouldn't even bother researching a vaccine.

 

[stevil]

And that really says it all....because most Trump appointees were immediately fired after Biden took office. The Attorney General Trump appointed? Fired. The DHS secretary Trump appointed? Fired. Nearly everyone Trump appointed to positions large and small....fired and told not to apply again under this administration.

This is the problem with your conspiracy theory.
If Biden appoints a director of FBI, then clearly he is under Biden's thumb and will do everything for Biden, including rigging the next election.
If Biden keeps the Trump appointed director of FBI, then clearly he is under Biden's thumb and will do everything for Biden, including rigging the next election.
You don't need to even have any evidence in support of your theory. It's just a forgone conclusion.

Are you saying that because a process exists for whistleblowers to come forward exists.....then that somehow shows you that "the president isn't controlling things"?

Yes.
Think of it this way. IF I went to HR and complained that my manager was giving me work to do, do you think they'd consider my complaint? Get me to fill out a form, do a big investigation and potentially fire my manager?

Or do you think they'd get me to sit down in a big boy chair and have a big boy conversation with me about how managers are supposed to allocate work to their staff?

Well, as it turns out, there is a whistle blower process if the President of USA tries to instruct people in the FBI on who to investigate and who not to investigate. It seems the FBI is supposed to be independant of the White House.
Just because Bill Barr ran around at Trump's bidding, it doesn't mean people in DOJ or FBI are running around at Biden's bidding.
Trump's administration was an outlier, Biden's is normal.

 

[returntosender]

Four years ago to the month is when most of the world shut down due to a pandemic. Did you object to the mask mandate? It seems that was the worst thing in the world for many.

The Senate had a bi-partisan bill which could have passed at least the senate until Trump stopped it. Trump does not want it fixed. Give him some of the blame.

I assume the next word would have been 'out' but you left us hanging, unless you are saying somebody kicked him like kicking a sleeping bear. Trump lost the election. He was kicked out of office. Now it is retribution time....

Yelled at what?

Indeed.

Can't you read my mind? Fill in the blanks? lol

 

[returntosender]

Lot you say is good to know as i haven't checked but i am an anti vaxer and so is my on line church. I need to find out more of his stand but am concerned if he's a dem as there's not much for anything they've done to the country in the last several years.