Is there an Atheist preference for the Democratic party going on here?

[rjs330]

My apologies for duplicate posts. My phone is acting weird today.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Hmm... I think those rules are self explanatory. You can debate whether they are sin or not without promoting it. Or is that not possible?

If you say it is not sin is that promoting it? I dunno, maybe it is.

You gotta be careful about it and I don't blame @ViaCrucis for not engaging.

I've had neutrally formed questions about abortion that I know weren't promoting abortion that I've received warnings for.

Apparently, the rules on these two issues and a handful of other cases have less to do with what it said, than it does the manner by which those words were interpreted or perhaps even misinterpreted.

I don't discuss that topic or abortion either....it's just not a clear line. I'd ask a mod for clarification.

 

[Ana the Ist]

These are the biggest power players in USA today.

Not really.

 

[stevil]

The Maori warriors were still cannibals in at least the mid 1800s back when they committed that genocide/ethnic cleansing.

I have no idea if all Maori were cannibals or if the majority or if the minority or if they didn't do that at all.

Why would it be inappropriate for anyone to call a tribal culture that ate people cannibals?

People are individuals. I have a workmate that has Maori heritage, I very much doubt that she has ever eaten people.

If the Maori people of today are going to refer to the European people as "colonizers" why not refer to them as primitive, genocidal, cannibalistic colonizers?

My workmate has never called me a colonizer.

I don't know how you missed it the last three or four times I told you....I have so little regard for whatever you think of me as a person, that the question you're asking doesn't even pop into my mind at any time.

I am a consequentialist. I don't go by a moral standard.
One of the things that is important to me, is the consequences of my actions and whether they are a real representation of who I am. Perception is a real thing, and people often have limited data points in which to assess me as a person.
I have spent a lifetime building up my reputation, it is very important to me.
I thought your reputation or the perception of others might be important to you.

Imagine if this forum had no rules for a day and you could respond to my every post with the most extreme version of whatever you think of me....I might find that amusing, but nothing else.

I have no interest in lashing out at people or being mean.
I have been focusing on you these last two days. Firstly to say I was glad to see you participating in other topics, and then somehow it shifted to me trying to prove to you that you give the appearance (to me) of a raging racist simply by your historical choice of topic starters. The post here that I was responding to was way over the top racist (IMO). From your posts alone, I don't think I would be able to distinguish you from a white supremacist who I imagine would be singularly focused on white issues.
Anyway, I've said it. I don't want to keep going on and on about it. I don't want to be perceived as hassling you.

The only reason I posted links to your threads on this topic is because you somewhat goaded me to do it. I didn't really want to.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sorry, I missed that request, life gets in the way of posting on forums such as this.

It's fine.

It's not a difficult challenge at all, below is just a small subset of the threads that you have started on these topics.

To be honest, I'm going to have to disagree with your characterization of some of these threads.

You are not necessarily wrong to be complaining about racism against whites or about some blacks or black organisations having bad intentions.

I'm sure that those things exist....they haven't really been my concern. I saw an increasing normalization of racism towards white people....in our entire society....and saw no one addressing it.

BUT, from just looking at the threads YOU start, they seem to be ONLY interested in racism against whites, not racism against blacks. AND ONLY interested in blacks and black organisations who have bad intentions.

Again....characterization.

Where is your outrage when blacks are discriminated against?

Such as?

If you show me a story where a black man tries to cash a legitimate check at his bank and he gets the police called on him because the teller is a racist who thinks he's trying to pass a fake check....

That man should get a lawyer and sue his bank for discrimination.
He should receive justice, and most often does, in the form of a settlement.
That bank should discipline or fire the employee and adjust practices.

I tend to see this as a good process for when these incidents occur....and I think they can effectively change the treatment of black people and other minorities over time.

So that's what my mind thinks when I see the article. I don't like that it happens....but it doesn't outrage me. Frankly, I am mildly looking forward to the day when I can receive tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for an hour or two of inconvenience caused by some idiot who misjudged me for being white.

Where is your outrage when white power organisations or white supremacists do horrible things?

Like what? Give me an example.

No threads, none at all, started by you on either of these two topics above.

And yet...I bet I could find 5 or more for every one of mine you found. The threads already exist by the time I glance at thethreads? They're usually posted in mere hours after the incident. Why would I make a copy thread?

Why does it appear that you are only shocked by racism when it is racism against whites?

I'm not shocked by racism against whites.

I'm shocked by how pervasive it has become by promoting it in a political narrative. Promoting it.

I'm also slightly shocked (or I was) at the complete lack of self awareness of the people who claimed to be against racism. If they loudly declared themselves against racism back in 2012....chances are they are some of the most racist people in our country today.

I'm less shocked now...because what I thought previously, was that this stance against racism was a value or deeply personal principle. I know now that is my misperception. These people are ignorant racist and easily manipulated. They only said they were against racism as a matter of social conformity. Once their peers began spreading racist ideas and beliefs....they quickly accepted those ideas and beliefs, regardless of how contradictory they were or the fact that they aren't even capable of explaining them.

In short, I've adjusted my expectations to reality. I no longer have a inflated view of a certain group. They've revealed themselves no better in any way than anyone else. It's not so shocking now.

Remember when I mentioned that poster who said they didn't care about racism towards whites? I followed up their reply with the question "aren't you at all concerned this could lead to institionalized racism against white people?"

The response was along the lines of "it won't go that far".

And try to keep that in mind when you consider my inflated ego. If I can accurately predict what will happen down the line based on an accurate perception of the society around me....well....you start to develop a certain confidence in your views even if most people disagree.

That's not to say I'm correct all the time. I would have said in 2005 that we were continuing towards less racism and more acceptance. I severely underestimated the hatred of white people in certain racial, social, and political groups. I was wrong about the media and political will to use that hatred for gain. I'm often wrong.

Again....readjusted my views.

Why does it appear that you are only shocked by colour based groups behaving badly when the colour of that group is black?

It doesn't come up as often from other groups. I do recall posting about an NYT hire that had a long history of spewing racial hatred against white people. This was excused, as it often is, as clever satire that I "didn't get". She was asian.

My perception of you is based on your actions pertaining to the topics of the multitude of threads that you start. Sure you are against racism against whites, but what about racism against minorities?

I think we've covered this and you're repeating the question for effect.

My understanding of racism for all but maybe the past 10 years of my life is that we should all fight against it....as appropriate....whenever it occurs, regardless of the victim. That's the value I thought people agreed with.

I never expected widespread racism against whites....but under that value, I expected a similar reaction. Instead, I saw people easily adopt racist beliefs and attitudes and now....the promoting of policies and laws.

I think you would be correct if you went further back....I did post about it a lot. It was contradictory to what I thought the left was. I thought we shared a very important value.

I was wrong....I didn't realize it at first. I think there probably was a period where I thought if I simply kept pointing it out....people would agree. Again, I was wrong. Instead, people went from being against racism to being racist towards white people. The sense of betrayal in a common value is gone now....I simply look at these people with disgust, or maybe a mild sense of pity if they just seem really dumb.

Threads of being worried about discrimination against whites
Diversity in Teaching
In case you didn't know, diversity, equity, and inclusion is just a racist dog whistle for "don't give a white person a job".

Which it is...there's no talk of "diversity" in the NBA for example. You might think that's because it doesn't matter in sports for some magical reason but the left definitely politicizes sports and the BBC recently got called out for saying one of their soccer teams is too white.

If "diversity" never includes more white people when they are underrepresented....I've described it accurately above.

Racial Bias in the Courtroom and Liberal Bias in the Media
I don't think it's any mystery why these stories simply don't get reported the same way as they do when the person in question is white. The larger left wing narrative that these sources cater to has taken the position that black people aren't really racist....or when they are, it's not really a problem because of the relative lack of power to act on that racism.

This was recently proven as factual. An analysis of news stories post 2020 revealed that when the perpetrator is white....their race is emphasized. When not, it frequently isn't mentioned. The complaint is about media racial bias...but ok.

Creeping Left Wing Extremist Doctrine Turns Victims Into Oppressors.
This is a reminder of the identity of the oppressors. The whites. White saviors are whites who try to explain the problems or fix the problems of non-whites to make themselves less morally culpable.

I'm not counting this. As I said in the thread...

It's not that racist discrimination doesn't happen, or that non-white children don't experience racism at school. I'm sure it happens and I'm always against it.

I hate that I even have to make such statements....because you won't find any examples of me being racist. This and arguably every time I made a thread about CRT it was to discuss a racist political view being placed in schools and corporations. I've frequently mentioned the detrimental effects of teaching black children they are victims. Imagine my surprise when a few years later when Biden took office...parents everywhere noticed too.

And Back to Racial Discrimination
Literal double standards for white men and monetary incentives to not hire them.

A good example of what you're claiming. I would ask why you don't notice the lack of outrage. If you saw this happening to black people or other minorities.....that thread would be very long.

The Problem Of Legitimate Movements Outliving Their Legitimacy
Like feminism though, the movement itself didn't die...it simply trended towards extremism. It became all cops are bad, or somehow secret racists. It's now the idea that all white people are bad or somehow secret racists.

This is very broad and includes multiple types of activist movements and the problem with perpetual grievance. A bad example.

CRT and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
White man fired for being white.
100 old white ladies fired for "diversity".
White students lie about race to improve their chances of getting into college.

Yeah....I'll consider this a good example.

Walmart To Employees, "White is not Right"
Walmart has given more than 1,000 employees critical training on race theory which teaches that the United States is a “white supremacist system” and that white interns are guilty of “white supremacist thinking” and “Internalized racial superiority,” according to a new report.

Classy. I remember thinking something was missing last time I was in Walmart. Turns out it was racial bigotry.

I'll consider this a good example.

Gabby Petito and White Privilege
I've long called discussions about white privilege to be thinly veiled racism against whites.

I'm not taking credit for this....try to distinguish between me drawing attention to a racial issue against whites....and the left making an issue racial.

We've gone back a year now... which is a pretty good marker for frequency. We have by my count...5 good or good enough examples. I think I'm being generous on a couple.

Does that seem like a lot of threads to you? 5 in a year? What if I told you I could easily have made 3 or 5 times that number?

Because 5 doesn't seem like a lot to me....especially given that so very few people ever post on the topic yet claim to be against racism.

So About BLM....
How does everyone feel about the leader of BLM, Mrs Marxism herself, Cullors stepping down?

I'm just curious about what everyone thinks of that? Do you fee
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Verdict...
A white cop shot a teenage black girl who was about to stab someone. I think a lot of people will call this a legal shooting and many are already doing so....on both sides of the political aisle.

I'm going to point out the less popular truth....this cop did a great job.

I left these in because these are not complaints about racism towards white people. 1 was about a scam movement that again....I figured out long before most. The other was pointing out the unrealistic expectations we now hold of police. I mean seriously....it doesn't matter if they act swiftly, with precision, and exactly as they should....or wait for approval, absolute certainty, and give multiple opportunities to deescalate.

An imperfect but rather well functioning institution has been broken....all for the wealth and self aggrandizement of a con artist. Can't be a Marxist with 90 million dollars...and you aren't trying to help black people if you don't help black people. If anything I've been kind to everyone who got scammed. I could be rubbing it in everyone's face if I were petty or mean.

 

[stevil]

We've gone back a year now... which is a pretty good marker for frequency. We have by my count...5 good or good enough examples. I think I'm being generous on a couple.

Does that seem like a lot of threads to you? 5 in a year? What if I told you I could easily have made 3 or 5 times that number?

Because 5 doesn't seem like a lot to me....especially given that so very few people ever post on the topic yet claim to be against racism.

My point is that there are lots of threads about racism against whites but none at all about racism against minorities and non whites.

I left these in because these are not complaints about racism towards white people.

As my subtitle suggested these were you pointing out what you thought were bad black people or bad black organisations.
I have not seen any threads that you have created about bad white people or bad white organisations.

My perception is that you are against racism as long as the racism is on whites, and against bad people and bad organisations as long as those people or organisations are beacons for black subjugation, and I have provided the evidence as asked for.
Your are not interested in my opinion or perception so I have no idea why we are still talking on this matter. This is the last post from me on this.

 

[Pommer]

My point is that there are lots of threads about racism against whites but none at all about racism against minorities and non whites.




As my subtitle suggested these were you pointing out what you thought were bad black people or bad black organisations.
I have not seen any threads that you have created about bad white people or bad white organisations.

My perception is that you are against racism as long as the racism is on whites, and against bad people and bad organisations as long as those people or organisations are beacons for black subjugation, and I have provided the evidence as asked for.
Your are not interested in my opinion or perception so I have no idea why we are still talking on this matter. This is the last post from me on this.

One tends to grind the ax one has access to.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I have no idea if all Maori were cannibals or if the majority or if the minority or if they didn't do that at all.

How do I know more about your indigenous people than you do? I don't even think this is something the Maori deny regarding their past.

It's as fascinating tribe for a lot of reasons.

People are individuals. I have a workmate that has Maori heritage, I very much doubt that she has ever eaten people.

And you've never colonized anything. Well done. You should stand up for yourself like you would your coworker.

My workmate has never called me a colonizer.

Well the Maori pushing to rename New Zealand do....they call you it all the time.

I am a consequentialist. I don't go by a moral standard.

I find that unlikely.

One of the things that is important to me, is the consequences of my actions and whether they are a real representation of who I am. Perception is a real thing, and people often have limited data points in which to assess me as a person.
I have spent a lifetime building up my reputation, it is very important to me.
I thought your reputation or the perception of others might be important to you.

I don't think you...or anyone else....could ever actually know anyone across such a limited amount of time and limited means of communication in any meaningful way.

People certainly convince themselves they do though.

I have no interest in lashing out at people or being mean.

Ok.

I have been focusing on you these last two days.

Ok.

Firstly to say I was glad to see you participating in other topics, and then somehow it shifted to me trying to prove to you that you give the appearance (to me) of a raging racist simply by your historical choice of topic starters.

Well....let's be honest....that's the accusation you were tip toeing towards....right? I'm not upset. It doesn't change my opinion of you....you've done it before, I'm well aware of it.

You think I'm racist. That's fine. It's OK. I'm not going to thank you for it, I'm sure you aren't alone....multiple posters here have insinuated the same view. I do respect the honesty though.

The post here that I was responding to was way over the top racist (IMO).

Which one? #?

From your posts alone, I don't think I would be able to distinguish you from a white supremacist who I imagine would be singularly focused on white issues.

They've done a good job of softening their rhetoric. I get it.

If you could magically dig into entire online history you won't ever see me advocating for a white ethnostate. I care so little about my ethnicity and historical "roots" I've got no interest at all in doing some DNA analysis. It genuinely doesn't matter to me....because I can't see any reason it should.

Anyway, I've said it. I don't want to keep going on and on about it. I don't want to be perceived as hassling you.

The only reason I posted links to your threads on this topic is because you somewhat goaded me to do it. I didn't really want to.

Do you really see yourself as a "consequentialist"? Because as you compiled a pretty decent list of threads giving examples of racism towards white people in media, a political party, social normalization, and it's push into institutions like education and corporations and so on....to the point of attempting to repeal civil rights and institue racial discrimination in policy and law....

And you tell me that your more bothered by me pointing it out than the fact that it's happening. You seem like you'd rather I not mention it happening.

You think I should focus on racism towards minorities....but I can't find any laws of policies that discriminate against minorities. In fact, we've got the opposite....and minorities have successfully used these when facing discrimination. In fact, it happens a lot.

What exactly are the consequences of a two tiered system that racially discriminates against a majority....and denies them jobs, opportunities, and degrades their views and devalues their work?

I can't think of any upside to those things unless someone is just racist against white people and wants to oppress them....or otherwise advance themselves. I don't assume that about you though...and I guess that's a difference between us.

But that's why I don't believe you're actually a consequentialist. Institutionalized racism doesn't have a great track record in any nation. We're not essentially an ethnostate like Japan....which is one of the few examples I can think of where it doesn't lead to long term destabilizing and worse...bloodshed.

I'm curious why you hold the views you do...and how you could possibly imagine a positive future in my society based on what are almost certainly going to be the consequences. What's the positive outcome here?

Do you think you could explain it? If it's too complex to predict...maybe you only hold these views because your peer group does.

 

[Ana the Ist]

One tends to grind the ax one has access to.

You said quite recently that I "don't work as hard" as a black person because I'm white.

 

[Ana the Ist]

My point is that there are lots of threads about racism against whites but none at all about racism against minorities and non whites.

@stevil ....you have things you consider worth posting....so do I. I don't judge you for never bringing up all thus racism against white people. Surely you've seen a multitude of posts....far exceeding any about racism towards white people....about racism towards other groups.

The main thing I consider when creating a thread is....

1. Is there already a thread on the topic I can simply participate in? I imagine most people including yourself do.

2. What would I like to discuss that isn't being discussed?

By default, whatever you see me post about, it's going to tend to be something other people aren't posting about.

The topics we can discuss, as you know as an atheist, are limited.

I'm curious why it bothers you so much....because obviously, it's not because you're against racism in all forms or even just in some forms....like interpersonal racism or institutional racism. It only seems to bother you when it's about certain targets of racism.

Again, I'm not accusing you of anything....I'm just curious why this topic bothers you?

As my subtitle suggested these were you pointing out what you thought were bad black people or bad black organisations.

I think it's fair to judge any social movement that puts itself out there as an advocate for some kind of change. Why wouldn't you? Surely you don't blindly support any political activist group regardless of their claims and goals. We have groups that advocate for pedophilia....and have for some time. I would doubt you would support their claims or goals.

If you look at my posts during #MeToo...I disagreed on several points regarding that as well. I don't recall you thinking me as a misogynist.

I have not seen any threads that you have created about bad white people or bad white organisations.

And you don't seem to remotely acknowledge my completely valid point about there already being a ton of threads on those topics....

My perception is that you are against racism as long as the racism is on whites, and against bad people and bad organisations as long as those people or organisations are beacons for black subjugation, and I have provided the evidence as asked for.
Your are not interested in my opinion or perception so I have no idea why we are still talking on this matter. This is the last post from me on this.

The one argument I agreed with the left completely on was a nuance argument about how things like interpersonal racism isn't going to rise to the importance of institutional racism....which creates oppression.

I basically agree with that....

Ironically, the vast majority of examples of racism that have received attention regarding black people appear to be interpersonal....not institutional. People tend to roll back the calendar 40 or 50 years to find those institutional examples....so I can't really tell if they believe that argument. If a black NYC mayor is using his power and influence to racially discriminate....that should be prioritized over, for a example, a black woman who got kicked out of CVS for trying to use a coupon and refusing to leave when she was denied.

Either I have to imagine that these people promoting the arguments are themselves racist....or possibly astonishingly stupid....or simply unable to form any opinions for themselves that might cause conflict in their peer group. One thing I know for certain....they don't actually care about racism.

Interestingly, your complaint about me somewhat mirrors an earlier complaint often levied at BLM. It was noted that more white men died at the hands of police....even unarmed...and BLM didn't protest that. BLM's response was that they were in no way obligated to care about any other race other than themselves. They likened themselves to a breast cancer research advocate and how they weren't obligated to cure all cancer. I actually considered that a valid argument....and I guess the question would be whether or not you saw them as racists for only advocating for black people, and hypocrites for demanding white people care when years later they would claim "silence is complicity" and "white silence is violence". That's a rhetorical question....I'm pretty sure where you stand. No need to answer.

It's been fun @stevil...I feel like I've given a pretty accurate depiction of the type of person who claims to care about racism....doesn't care about racism towards certain races....and claims I'm the racist because I don't make that arbitrary distinction. You go ahead and decide for yourself which of those depictions suits you best. You don't seem to have any idea of the history of the minority communities around you....so I already know which depiction I think applies. I don't need to justify my position to anyone....particularly someone who doesn't seem capable of engaging with the substance of my arguments and just looks for justification to attack my character.

Again though...and I'm serious about this, a lot of people on here do the same thing and aren't as honest about it. In my eyes, you're a more respectable person because of it.

Edit- I almost forgot to address your "evidence". Go to the American Politics page and you'll see one poster making multiple threads weekly that are nothing more than cheap attacks on conservatives. Your claim was that I create a lot of threads on one topic and it was making you uncomfortable in some way. If you can only come up with 5 threads in a year and it's generous to give you that many.....perhaps it's worth considering why your perception is so wildly skewed or biased.

Could it be because we're both atheists and you seem to think about evidence the same way as me....but our opinions are so different? Mine are rather easily explained, understood, logically coherent, appropriately prioritized, and consistent in regards to the topic of racism? Does the fact that yours aren't even really explainable, require vast assumptions, and constantly shifting definitions and goalposts make you uncomfortable? Does it make you feel like perhaps you aren't applying the same level if critical thinking to this topic as you do to atheism? Is the potential loss of friends and associates who believe as you do and the possibility of being viewed as morally repugnant by them causing a bit of internal conflict and my posts just keep bringing it to the surface? Do you feel like maybe you're just going along with this to get along with your peers....potentially at the cost of self integrity?

I can understand that @stevil....a lot of my former liberal friends won't speak to me anymore. I don't blame you for not giving up friends. I simply care about the way I feel about myself more....I'm not willing to lie to people, black or white or otherwise, to keep them around me. The discomfort of that sort of lie bothers me more than the loss of a friend who cannot tolerate a difference in opinion. I think that's probably a rare trait...and people will generally agree with their peers on issues to keep them if disagreement means being alone.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hmm... I think those rules are self explanatory. You can debate whether they are sin or not without promoting it. Or is that not possible?

If you say it is not sin is that promoting it? I dunno, maybe it is.

Having been on this site for over a decade I've seen plenty of threads shut down long before even that kind of discussion has occurred.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[stevil]

@stevil ....you have things you consider worth posting....so do I. I don't judge you for never bringing up all thus racism against white people. Surely you've seen a multitude of posts....far exceeding any about racism towards white people....about racism towards other groups.

Hello Ana,

I'm sorry for bringing this all up. Don't worry about it. Of course you are allowed to make whatever threads/posts you want, and of course you don't need to explain yourself to me.

I was just being open about my perceptions (rightly or wrongly). I can see you are posting on other topics now as well. Don't worry about me, perhaps I was being overly sensitive. I'm not used to hearing people in a white dominated country complain about all the prejudice against whites. As you can tell by that last sentence I still haven't completely got my head around it. But that is my problem, not yours.

 

[rjs330]

Having been on this site for over a decade I've seen plenty of threads shut down long before even that kind of discussion has occurred.

-CryptoLutheran

Good to know. We can just move on.

 

[rjs330]

And you've never colonized anything. Well done. You should stand up for yourself like you would your coworker.

And I never had slaves not did I take over land from the Native Americans either.

Did you?

 

[rjs330]

People are individuals. I have a workmate that has Maori heritage, I very much doubt that she has ever eaten people.

Why aren't you judging a group of people based upon what their ancestors did?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why aren't you judging a group of people based upon what their ancestors did?

While there are exceptions among some who want to merely vilify, in general, the language of privilege has nothing to do with the sins of one's ancestors; but rather the systems of power currently in place which benefit some and disadvantage others.

I'm not guilty for what my white colonizing ancestors did, but I do benefit from systems of power which privilege me in ways that I am frequently unaware of. Conversely, there are privileges I don't experience. As someone who has struggled with weight issues my entire life, I have had to face discrimination in different forms. I'm a big dude, I'm tall and heavy, and I have frequently had to deal with presumptions about me: I've routinely had my intelligence questioned and had to deal with people assuming I am a physically "brawny" guy who is only good for manual labor. Even as a man male privilege hasn't been particularly kind to me, as I've never conformed well to the social role expected of me as a guy. I had a friend recently inform me that I'm "weird" because when I interact with women I am never predatory, I have never felt the compulsion to look at women as objects to be conquered and that has frequently had my very sexuality called into question.

Privilege and social expectations are calcified in the very bones of culture. And calling those into question frequently, history shows, don't go over well. Socrates was put to death for "corrupting the youth", our spiritual mothers and fathers were fed to lions and nailed to crosses because we dared to challenge the norms of Roman society, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated.

The powers and principalities always like to maintain a status quo that benefits them. It doesn't matter if one is white, or black, or fat, or skinny, or Christian, or atheist, or Muslim, or Jew--power craves power. As Christians this should be obvious to us, because we recognize the fallen nature and sinfulness of this present age.

What is strange is for a Christian to defend the powers and principalities, merely because they benefit from it. The way of Christ calls us to take up our cross and die.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[stevil]

Why aren't you judging a group of people based upon what their ancestors did?

What kind of a question is that?

 

[Bradskii]

Why aren't you judging a group of people based upon what their ancestors did?

Personally speaking, I'd judge the ancestors. Blaming the children for the sins of their fathers has always seemed to be a nonsensical idea.

Oh, wait...

 

[rjs330]

While there are exceptions among some who want to merely vilify, in general, the language of privilege has nothing to do with the sins of one's ancestors; but rather the systems of power currently in place which benefit some and disadvantage others.

And here we have the problems. Everyone has benefitted in some fashion by their ancestors past. Those in NZ and Australia all benefit by those who came before. They all have privilege over others. They receive benefits from their past. Even the tribes there do over others.

The questions are based upon what are the privileges and do they matter anymore. What happens far too often is the privileges of the past are no longer relevant.

As you pointed out so well is that just because some claim there is privilege, doesn't make it so.

What is strange is for a Christian to defend the powers and principalities, merely because they benefit from it. The way of Christ calls us to take up our cross and die.

That would be true if the Christian actually believes they benefited from it and wanted to keep those in power just because they benefit from it. The assumption you are making is that we know we are benefitting from some sort of privilege and that we want to keep certain people in power so we keep benefitting from it at the expense of others.

For me, I don't believe anyone in power is teying to hold onto that power simply to benefit my white skin. Which is the claim.

 

[rjs330]

What kind of a question is that?

I think you know.