Is there an Atheist preference for the Democratic party going on here?

[Ana the Ist]

I don't think that there's necessarily any inherent connection between atheism and liberal values or conservative values.

You can be an atheist and still be pro-gun, in favor of limited government, against "woke culture" etc...
Much like you can be an atheist and hold the opposite positions...

You'd think this would be obvious....but I suspect the dearth of atheists on the left simply adopt political positions the same way everyone else does....which seems weird to me.

That highlights that "Democrat/Republican" isn't a 100% overlap with "liberal/conservative"

There's a significant number on the left who don't really believe in Independents.

Where the GOP loses a lot of atheists (even ones that may be conservative on almost every issue) is when so many prominent GOP politicians use rhetoric about how "this country was founded on Christian values" or saying "we need to make return this country into being a Christian nation"

I would liken it to other non-political values. For instance, there's nothing inherently liberal or conservative about a person dietary choices. But if one party used rhetoric like "this is a meat eating nation", I'm fairly confident that I could accurately predict which party the majority of vegans would vote for.

Yeah....I don't support that....but stated that vaguely, I don't have any idea what it means?

I can generally describe the Christian right and their positions, arguments, etc. They claim certain values even if it's obvious that the candidate doesn't really hold those values.

I honestly can't tell what the left values....at all. It shifts too quickly. I don't know if you read the article I linked but when you consider what the mayor is doing....and compare that to the "blind interviews" that posters on the left here described as "fair" or preferable....these are complete opposites.

Yet if I did start a thread on the topic....I doubt sincerely any on the left would argue against it.....even though it completely contradicts the process that they imagined they were working for.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I don't live in a religious family and I don't live in a particularly religious country.
NZ seems to be way more liberal and accepting of differences than USA or in particular bible belt states of USA. (my perception anyway, I have not been to USA)

NZ? How much longer do you think they'll be calling your nation New Zealand?

Do you find it ironic at all that a seafaring tribe of cannibals who are responsible for at least one genocide recorded and likely slaughtered whoever lived there before them have the gall to refer to New Zealanders as colonialists?

 

[rjs330]

Which presidents have been non Christian?

Please just answer the question. Don't throw out another one. What do you mean by dominated and controlled?

 

[rjs330]

Still waiting to see one of these “better people”. So far the field looks like a six pack of TrumpLite with better hair.

I'm okay with that. I liked many of Trump's policies. I didn't care for how the man acted.

 

[rjs330]

I believe that those who engage in mere "virtue signaling" and who are more concerned with scoring brownie points in this way are engaged in a kind of worship of something rather than actually being concerned with and working toward real justice. And to that end I think there is a fetishizing of socialism. In the same way that blind fetishizing of capitalism as some inherent good amounts to a worship of capitalism.

I believe the goal should be real justice, not mere tribal identity us-vs-them rhetoric that doesn't actually mean anything.

Of course sin exploits. But I don't share your belief and interpretations of Scripture as it pertains to LGBTQA+ persons. Which is the most that I can say here on Christian Forums without breaking the rules. I would love to address the substance of key biblical passages on the subject, but again, that debate is in violation of forum rules.

-CryptoLutheran

Really cause I've seen it debated. If you ask me accepting LGBTQ as not a sin is as heretical as it gets. You mentioned a few things as heresy and I'd add this to the list.

 

[rjs330]

Yeah....I don't support that....but stated that vaguely, I don't have any idea what it means?

I can generally describe the Christian right and their positions, arguments, etc. They claim certain values even if it's obvious that the candidate doesn't really hold those values

You make a good point. Simply stating those things may be a statement where one stands on Christian values. But it does not mean that they want to rule by a theocracy or fall within Dominionism.

There are many "christian values" that all can believe in without being a Christian. We could even just call them values. They don't even have to be "christian values".

It is pretty vague to say we were a nation founded on Christian values. So what if we were? What's the big deal? What values were those? And how harmful were those Christian values?

And today someone says that my question is so what? What does that mean. What do you propose to do with those values?

 

[Pommer]

Really cause I've seen it debated. If you ask me accepting LGBTQ as not a sin is as heretical as it gets. You mentioned a few things as heresy and I'd add this to the list.

Would, say, the Doctrine of Transubstantiation (the Catholic belief that the Bread of the Eucharist actually becomes Jesus’ flesh) be mentioned in that “heresy-list” too?

 

[rjs330]

Would, say, the Doctrine of Transubstantiation (the Catholic belief that the Bread of the Eucharist actually becomes Jesus’ flesh) be mentioned in that “heresy-list” too?

Would it? Is there zero support for it in scripture and Scripture saying it absolutely does not?

 

[Yttrium]

Would it? Is there zero support for it in scripture and Scripture saying it absolutely does not?

Just to help move things along, John 6:51-58

 

[Ana the Ist]

You make a good point. Simply stating those things may be a statement where one stands on Christian values. But it does not mean that they want to rule by a theocracy or fall within Dominionism.

There are many "christian values" that all can believe in without being a Christian. We could even just call them values. They don't even have to be "christian values".

They seem willing to settle for a less than Christ-like candidate....which I think is a point in their favor.

It is pretty vague to say we were a nation founded on Christian values. So what if we were? What's the big deal? What values were those? And how harmful were those Christian values?

Enlightenment and Post Enlightenment values are in some ways, in some instances, derived from the Roman Catholic or Protestant values. Are they all that matters? Clearly not. The Protestant work ethic is basically still found in ideas like the "bootstraps" cliche and the idea that anyone can move here and succeed. Unfortunately institutions like slavery started with the Papal seal of approval, since edicts forbidding slavery against Christians were common at the time. Other ideas like "Manifest Destiny" I see as only religious in a superficial way.

And today someone says that my question is so what? What does that mean. What do you propose to do with those values?

A lot of Christians across a lot of denominations believe those things....rightly or wrongly....but it's tricky to come up with examples of policy imposed upon others ever since ID and creationism were more or less abandoned from the majority of public schools.

 

[rjs330]

Just to help move things along, John 6:51-58

Exactly.

 

[stevil]

Please just answer the question. Don't throw out another one. What do you mean by dominated and controlled?

I'm assuming you are not that dense.

USA, if we are talking about USA, has been and is dominated and controlled by Christians, typically white, typically men.
The vast majority of the presidents have been Christians, and men and all but one has been white.

Of the current SCOTUS, two are Protestant (Christians), six are Catholics (Christians) and one is Jewish.
8 Christians and 1 non Christian.

In the Senate today you have
86 Christians and 14 non Christians

In the House today you have 88% which are Christian.

These are the biggest power players in USA today.

 

[stevil]

NZ? How much longer do you think they'll be calling your nation New Zealand?

Do you find it ironic at all that a seafaring tribe of cannibals who are responsible for at least one genocide recorded and likely slaughtered whoever lived there before them have the gall to refer to New Zealanders as colonialists?

Huh? Are you lumping all Maori together? Calling all Maori cannibals?
Is this what you think of them?
Are you representing yourself and your reputation and your position in the best way possible here?

 

[Bradskii]

Huh? Are you lumping all Maori together? Calling all Maori cannibals?
Is this what you think of them?
Are you representing yourself and your reputation and your position in the best way possible here?

Maybe we should ask @Ana the Ist how long he thinks a people needs to live in any given place to be considered indigenous (and thereby defining all Johnny-come-latelys as colonists).

 

[stevil]

The last time said this....I asked for the last three examples.

You can just copy and paste the links.

The fact that you ignored it last time....means if you ignore it again, I'm going to start to seriously question the claim you're making about me, if you even really believe it, and your motives.

Sorry, I missed that request, life gets in the way of posting on forums such as this.

Because I don't think I make a lot of threads. I'd be fine with the last 3 examples. It's not going to be difficult....You're telling me you've looked.

It's not a difficult challenge at all, below is just a small subset of the threads that you have started on these topics.
You are not necessarily wrong to be complaining about racism against whites or about some blacks or black organisations having bad intentions. BUT, from just looking at the threads YOU start, they seem to be ONLY interested in racism against whites, not racism against blacks. AND ONLY interested in blacks and black organisations who have bad intentions.

Where is your outrage when blacks are discriminated against?
Where is your outrage when white power organisations or white supremacists do horrible things?
No threads, none at all, started by you on either of these two topics above.

Why does it appear that you are only shocked by racism when it is racism against whites?
Why does it appear that you are only shocked by colour based groups behaving badly when the colour of that group is black?

My perception of you is based on your actions pertaining to the topics of the multitude of threads that you start. Sure you are against racism against whites, but what about racism against minorities?

Threads of being worried about discrimination against whites
Diversity in Teaching
In case you didn't know, diversity, equity, and inclusion is just a racist dog whistle for "don't give a white person a job".

Racial Bias in the Courtroom and Liberal Bias in the Media
I don't think it's any mystery why these stories simply don't get reported the same way as they do when the person in question is white. The larger left wing narrative that these sources cater to has taken the position that black people aren't really racist....or when they are, it's not really a problem because of the relative lack of power to act on that racism.

Creeping Left Wing Extremist Doctrine Turns Victims Into Oppressors.
This is a reminder of the identity of the oppressors. The whites. White saviors are whites who try to explain the problems or fix the problems of non-whites to make themselves less morally culpable.

And Back to Racial Discrimination
Literal double standards for white men and monetary incentives to not hire them.


The Problem Of Legitimate Movements Outliving Their Legitimacy
Like feminism though, the movement itself didn't die...it simply trended towards extremism. It became all cops are bad, or somehow secret racists. It's now the idea that all white people are bad or somehow secret racists.

CRT and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
White man fired for being white.
100 old white ladies fired for "diversity".
White students lie about race to improve their chances of getting into college.

Walmart To Employees, "White is not Right"
Walmart has given more than 1,000 employees critical training on race theory which teaches that the United States is a “white supremacist system” and that white interns are guilty of “white supremacist thinking” and “Internalized racial superiority,” according to a new report.

Classy. I remember thinking something was missing last time I was in Walmart. Turns out it was racial bigotry.

Gabby Petito and White Privilege
I've long called discussions about white privilege to be thinly veiled racism against whites.

White Farmers Denied Loans Because....White
I have no problem if Democrats want to pass different laws for different races.

There's a process for that. They can rescind the 14th Amendment. They just have to stand up in front of everyone and explain why civil rights are bad and racial discrimination is good.

Yale Guilty of Racial Discrimination
Against whites and asians....

Whites Have to Wear Masks
Pretty simple, they passed a law requiring masks....unless you're a person of color, because racism.

White Men Need Not Apply
This all started with a black film director asking specifically for black union editors to contact him (presumably for a job). This led to a bunch of white film production workers to rightfully call out the racism inherent in such a request.

Too Many White People - UVA Student
So...this young black college student got recorded telling white people to leave...you know, because they're white.

Police Captain Suspended
..for "white male privilege" remark.

I say good riddance, hopefully she's removed. Racism and sexism have no place in the police department.



Threads of being worried about actions of blacks or black organisations
Smollett Charged With Crime
After weeks of the public both supporting and becoming skeptical of Jussie Smollett...he has been charged with filing a false police report.

Violent Racist Threat Dropper Caught
Surprise! It's a black woman....

Classic. This is easily my favorite fake hate crime. The tip off here is when the criminal described themself as a 6ft tall white man with a long red beard.

So About BLM....
How does everyone feel about the leader of BLM, Mrs Marxism herself, Cullors stepping down?

I'm just curious about what everyone thinks of that? Do you feel scammed for supporting it? Did you give money? Did you march? Did you realize it wasn't real long ago?

Black Lives Matter Mob Attacks Rally Members in Dallas
That's Black Lives Matter alright...biggest hate group in the US.

Black Lives Matter Mob Beats White Man Driving Truck
Lovely people these Black Lives Matter supporters. I remember a discussion on here with one of their Portland supporters who felt they should be given what they want. At this point, I don't think they deserve a single thing.

Accept Black Jesus or Die!
Perhaps security heard the man, and decided it was too risky for their careers to argue with the guy raving about black Jesus. Cancel culture canceled an entire flight this time lol.

White Silence is Violence
In the past couple of weeks, I've noticed a more aggressive and more direct tone and message from the protesters, BLM, and it's supporters. The title of the thread is a phrase I've seen thrown around a lot. The phrase White Silence is Violence. It's also written as To Be Silent Is To Be Complicit. For example...

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Verdict...
A white cop shot a teenage black girl who was about to stab someone. I think a lot of people will call this a legal shooting and many are already doing so....on both sides of the political aisle.

I'm going to point out the less popular truth....this cop did a great job.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Really cause I've seen it debated. If you ask me accepting LGBTQ as not a sin is as heretical as it gets. You mentioned a few things as heresy and I'd add this to the list.

Go ahead and look at the site-wide rules.

Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

"Homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, transsexualism and transgenderism may not be promoted* on CF (including member profiles). Several debate forums allow homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, transsexualism and transgenderism to be discussed from a political, legal, historical, and civil rights point of view. Please check the Statement of Purpose thread for individual debate forums before posting. Homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, transsexualism and transgenderism may be discussed, without promotion*, in the Congregational in line with each group's beliefs there. You may post without promotion* in the Struggles with Sexuality and Ask a Chaplain forums solely for the purpose of seeking support with personal struggles related to these issues."

-CryptoLutheran

 

[rjs330]

I'm assuming you are not that dense.

USA, if we are talking about USA, has been and is dominated and controlled by Christians, typically white, typically men.
The vast majority of the presidents have been Christians, and men and all but one has been white.

Of the current SCOTUS, two are Protestant (Christians), six are Catholics (Christians) and one is Jewish.
8 Christians and 1 non Christian.

In the Senate today you have
86 Christians and 14 non Christians

In the House today you have 88% which are Christian.

These are the biggest power players in USA today.

You still haven't answered the question. What do you mean by dominated and controlled. Just cause someone is something does that mean they are dominating and controlling you? Let's just say that African Americans made up 60% of the house and the Senate. Would you be making the claim that we were being dominated and controlled by African Americans?

Dominated and controlled? How is being something dominating and controlling others? If the government was filled with atheists how would they be dominating and controlling us?

 

[rjs330]

I'm assuming you are not that dense.

USA, if we are talking about USA, has been and is dominated and controlled by Christians, typically white, typically men.
The vast majority of the presidents have been Christians, and men and all but one has been white.

Of the current SCOTUS, two are Protestant (Christians), six are Catholics (Christians) and one is Jewish.
8 Christians and 1 non Christian.

In the Senate today you have
86 Christians and 14 non Christians

In the House today you have 88% which are Christian.

These are the biggest power players in USA today.

You still haven't answered the question. What do you mean by dominated and controlled. Just cause someone is something does that mean they are dominating and controlling you? Let's just say that African Americans made up 60% of the house and the Senate. Would you be making the claim that we were being dominated and controlled by African Americans?

Dominated and controlled? How is being something dominating and controlling others? If the government was filled with atheists how would they be dominating and controlling us?

 

[rjs330]

Go ahead and look at the site-wide rules.

Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums

"Homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, transsexualism and transgenderism may not be promoted* on CF (including member profiles). Several debate forums allow homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, transsexualism and transgenderism to be discussed from a political, legal, historical, and civil rights point of view. Please check the Statement of Purpose thread for individual debate forums before posting. Homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, transsexualism and transgenderism may be discussed, without promotion*, in the Congregational in line with each group's beliefs there. You may post without promotion* in the Struggles with Sexuality and Ask a Chaplain forums solely for the purpose of seeking support with personal struggles related to these issues."

-CryptoLutheran

Hmm... I think those rules are self explanatory. You can debate whether they are sin or not without promoting it. Or is that not possible?

If you say it is not sin is that promoting it? I dunno, maybe it is.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Huh? Are you lumping all Maori together? Calling all Maori cannibals?

The Maori warriors were still cannibals in at least the mid 1800s back when they committed that genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Why would it be inappropriate for anyone to call a tribal culture that ate people cannibals?

If the Maori people of today are going to refer to the European people as "colonizers" why not refer to them as primitive, genocidal, cannibalistic colonizers?

Is this what you think of them?

Them's the facts.
It's certainly not a flattering picture....but whenever the term "colonizers" gets thrown around it tends to be completely derogatory, devoid of context, and entirely negative....so....same thing.

Are you representing yourself and your reputation and your position in the best way possible here?

I don't know how you missed it the last three or four times I told you....I have so little regard for whatever you think of me as a person, that the question you're asking doesn't even pop into my mind at any time.

Imagine if this forum had no rules for a day and you could respond to my every post with the most extreme version of whatever you think of me....I might find that amusing, but nothing else.

Asking me if I'm worried about my reputation on a small online discussion forum is like asking me if I'm ever concerned that I might not be living up to my dog's expectations of me as a man....even if I could be made aware of such things, I wouldn't care enough to ask.