Is there an Atheist preference for the Democratic party going on here?

cow451

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And who do the Democrats plan to run? Mayor Pete? Harris? LOL
Any of which would be hands down better than the current GOO field. I must admit it would be interesting to see Trump lose his third straight popular vote.
 
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rjs330

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So 'It's not all us over here. It's all them over there'.

Of course it is...

Yes it is "them over there that started it." And I can easily prove it. The Democrats have become divisive even within their own group.

That being said, the Republicans have now entered the fray as well. Being divisive and even being divided themselves.

We are without a doubt a divided country, but there is no doubt the left started it. And there is no doubt the right has joined in.

We is them now. I would love to have some compromise on some things. But from what I've seen there is no compromising from the left.

I mean I could throw out a topic on which there could be compromise and you would quickly see what I mean.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I've never heard any Christian say that in my life.

Is this the sort of thing regularly uttered in church? That Israel and church are the same?

Then talk to more Christians who are knowledgeable about theology? I doubt it's the sort of thing people are talking about around the coffee table before or after the service, but if you talk to any seminary trained person from any of the historic churches they will answer in the affirmative that the Church and Israel are the same thing.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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That is not a worship of capitalism. And the real exploitation of the poor comes fr the left, keeping people in poverty so they can exploit them for votes and power.



You're awful free with tossing around the worshipping of this and that then excuse those churches who support sin within the church as not worshipping it.

And if you don't think sin doesn't exploit, abuse or injure anyone, you need to study about the consequences of sin. In this world and the next.



Just to be clear you do believe those that believe in socialism are worshipping socialism. A simple yes or no works well. Im sorry but I had a little difficulty understanding your response.

I believe that those who engage in mere "virtue signaling" and who are more concerned with scoring brownie points in this way are engaged in a kind of worship of something rather than actually being concerned with and working toward real justice. And to that end I think there is a fetishizing of socialism. In the same way that blind fetishizing of capitalism as some inherent good amounts to a worship of capitalism.

I believe the goal should be real justice, not mere tribal identity us-vs-them rhetoric that doesn't actually mean anything.

Of course sin exploits. But I don't share your belief and interpretations of Scripture as it pertains to LGBTQA+ persons. Which is the most that I can say here on Christian Forums without breaking the rules. I would love to address the substance of key biblical passages on the subject, but again, that debate is in violation of forum rules.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I think the vast majority of capitalists would agree with you. Capitalism is the best way to bring people out of poverty and has been the train that has driven the world to the advanced it has had. It has provided for more wealth for more people.

BUT it does need to be regulated appropriately. Not over regulated because when the government over regulated it then business gets in bed with government to supply things that government want supplies in the way it wants it supplied.

Under regulation is just as bad because business can run amok without it.

It's a very difficult balance. And we have moved to over regulation.

I'd argue that we have a very under-regulated capitalism. Under-regulated capitalism is how we get the nightmare that was Citizens United. Under-regulated capitalism is how we get pharmaceutical companies charging ridiculous prices for life-saving medicine like insulin. Under-regulated capitalism is how we have for-profit health insurance and millions of American families living in tens of thousands of dollars of medical debt. Under-regulation is why the filthy rich and huge corporations have so much power in the halls of Congress and why our nation is functionally an oligarchy.

Kill the monopolies, end for-profit news, end for-profit insurance, provide single-payer medical care for all, put a heavy hand on the pharmaceutical companies that are making bank on all of us being sick and unwell.

We are seeing the pain of unregulated Capitalism, we've been seeing it since the Reagan administration--this is Reagan's America, where the rich stay rich and get richer, and the poor stay poor and get poorer.

We keep maintaining the lie that anyone, through hard work and pure gumption can make it big. That's a lie, it's a lie, it's a dirty lie. It's the lie that the wealthy and the powerful tell to keep the working poor both working and poor.

We pretend like American society is a democratic meritocracy, but that's a lie. American society is an oligarchic plutocracy that exploits the weak, the working poor, and the vulnerable.

Capitalism isn't broken when the rich stay rich and get richer while the poor stay poor and get poorer, that's not a bug in the system, that's a feature. Which is why heavy regulation is necessary.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Ana the Ist

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Can you provide a link to a thread that you started where you were concerned about racism towards black people?

I've certainly commented on certain incidents of racism towards black people and other groups.

Fortunately, there's no shortage of concern about racism towards black people. I it's addressed constantly and over issues so minor that you'd hardly believe they'd make the news....like a black guy getting kicked out of a hotel. I mean....I'm not going to say it's not worth concern...but when people tell you that the real problem is these large system of racism....and stuff like this is going on all the time without any mention or concern....

NYC Mayor Adams request photos of city job applicants to increase diversity

You have mayors who are literally trying to screen out white applicants....by requesting headshots on job applications.

What's the bigger issue here? Some black guy refuses to identify if he's a paying customer to a hotel security guard and getting kicked out for it? Or the fact that the mayor of NYC is literally trying to deny people job opportunities based on race?

Personally....of course the second is a bigger problem.

But maybe you disagree.
 
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stevil

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I've certainly commented on certain incidents of racism towards black people and other groups.

Fortunately, there's no shortage of concern about racism towards black people. I it's addressed constantly and over issues so minor that you'd hardly believe they'd make the news....like a black guy getting kicked out of a hotel. I mean....I'm not going to say it's not worth concern...but when people tell you that the real problem is these large system of racism....and stuff like this is going on all the time without any mention or concern....

NYC Mayor Adams request photos of city job applicants to increase diversity
I don't get it.

I had noted that you have started lots and lots of threads on racism, but I had accused you of only being interested in white issues.
You said you aren't concerned with white issues but instead racism in general.

So I asked you to provide a link to a thread you had started where you were concerned about racism against blacks.

instead you give me a link to a newspaper article about racism against whites.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'd argue that we have a very under-regulated capitalism. Under-regulated capitalism is how we get the nightmare that was Citizens United. Under-regulated capitalism is how we get pharmaceutical companies charging ridiculous prices for life-saving medicine like insulin. Under-regulated capitalism is how we have for-profit health insurance and millions of American families living in tens of thousands of dollars of medical debt. Under-regulation is why the filthy rich and huge corporations have so much power in the halls of Congress and why our nation is functionally an oligarchy.

Kill the monopolies, end for-profit news, end for-profit insurance, provide single-payer medical care for all, put a heavy hand on the pharmaceutical companies that are making bank on all of us being sick and unwell.

It's a bit too late for that I'm afraid. We're in a global economy. Big business monopolies aren't just choking out smaller competitors here....they're competing with big monopolies worldwide.

To break one up essentially ensures it's destruction, because the market will be flooded with the cheaper products of its competitors. The monopoly that replaces it will be foreign and harder to regulate.

We are seeing the pain of unregulated Capitalism, we've been seeing it since the Reagan administration--this is Reagan's America, where the rich stay rich and get richer, and the poor stay poor and get poorer.

I don't know what you think Reagan has to do with this. We elected an actor....not an economist.

We keep maintaining the lie that anyone, through hard work and pure gumption can make it big. That's a lie, it's a lie, it's a dirty lie. It's the lie that the wealthy and the powerful tell to keep the working poor both working and poor.

We pretend like American society is a democratic meritocracy, but that's a lie.

I'm not crazy about this anti-meritocratic rhetoric the left keeps floating. I read an article recently that said 95% of airline pilots are white men. I don't know why....I don't think anyone has looked into it....but that's the situation.

If you looked that stat up today....saw I was correct...and tomorrow, before catching a flight, you read a headline celebrating the diversification of pilots in the airline industry. Overnight, the job has met the perfect proportion of minorities and women and disabled and whatever else the left thinks is important now.

Unfortunately, the article doesn't explain how this goal was met. No article does.

When you get on the plane and see your pilot is an elderly Asian woman who appears to be struggling to open the cabin....are you going to stay on your flight?

I've seen how the left is attempting to remove the "meritocracy". They eliminate standardized tests, they eliminate grades, they tell kids getting the correct answers aren't important in math.

They aren't using the meritocracy argument to improve those who are falling behind. They're trying to eliminate any means of measuring merit.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I don't get it.

I had noted that you have started lots and lots of threads on racism, but I had accused you of only being interested in white issues.
You said you aren't concerned with white issues but instead racism in general.

Yeah....and I've commented on issues of racism in general.

Like I said though....there's no lack of stories of "Karens" calling the police on black people having a cookout or something. I've popped in to say I think it's wrong. The only thing I remember resulting from the incident though was the woman being humiliated online, I don't remember if she lost her job and I don't think the police arrested or cited anyone.

Virtually every minor racist incident....and many that turned out to not be racist at all....has been posted by multiple members on this forum before I've even heard about it for at least the last 5 years...unless it was about a racist incident towards white people.

I didn't make a thread on any of the incidents I thought were racist if the thread was already made.

So I asked you to provide a link to a thread you had started where you were concerned about racism against blacks.

And I've explained why you probably won't find any. It doesn't mean I haven't posted statistics or articles in other people's threads.

instead you give me a link to a newspaper article about racism against whites.

And I've noticed you didn't answer the question...

Of the two types of racism I gave examples of....what's the bigger problem?

I'm guessing that despite multiple posters creating many threads on the subject of racism towards black people, you never told them how odd it was for them to be concerned over something you consider so minor.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm pretty certain that if you looked for evidence of God's existence there would have been no end of examples of what any given Christian would tell you is 'evidence'.

Saying something is evidence doesn't make it so.

Whether you actively seek it (which I think one should if one wants to class oneself as an atheist)

Well in my case I chose to....not because the outcome really concerned me, but because I thought the truth was very important in all things.

or it's been presented to you (an all too regular occurence) I think that we can both agree that we rejected all of it.

I never got indoctrinated in any way regarding religion. I considered myself lucky for it in the past....now I wonder if it has made it harder to relate to others.
 
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stevil

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And I've explained why you probably won't find any. It doesn't mean I haven't posted statistics or articles in other people's threads.
I'm talking about perception here. I don't know you. I've never met you, never sat down with you for a drink or lunch, all I see is some of the posts and threads that you make here in this forum.

All I see is a multitude of threads created by you on the problems of racism against whites in USA. I have never seen you create any threads about the problems of racism against blacks in USA. You tell me you are interested in racism in general and not problems facing Whites. But I think maybe you have a blind spot regarding your own position, the evidence tells me you are primarily and most interested in problems facing whites, and not at all worried about the problems facing non whites.

And I've noticed you didn't answer the question...

Of the two types of racism I gave examples of....what's the bigger problem?
I'm not answering this directly as I think the two issues are contrived.
I see the issue that blacks are largely not in positions of power or wealth and largely put in prisons, or killed by police or getting their votes suppressed by the Republicans or being denied access to quality schools and quality health care, being denied access to financing etc, I see this as a much bigger problem than any of the topics of the threads you have created about whites being discriminated against. I'm not denying that discrimination against whites isn't a problem.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Me, I'm ignostic, which means I am waiting for someone to present a properly formed claim before I seek or consider any evidence for or against it.

I understand that you'd change your mind if presented with appropriate evidence for changing your mind. I suspect even the very religious would.

That's not the question of the label though....you either believe in a god of sorts....or you don't.

If you don't...you're an atheist.

As yet, I've not seen any falsifiable claims, so they don't meet a standard that allows for validation via discovery of, or evaluation of, evidence.

Yeah books are pretty much a non-starter for gods as described in books. There's no book you can look at that shows evidence of some all knowing deity....we can imagine if a book was nearly infinitely long and detailed everything that would ever happen so everyone who will exist can check it...and see God exists....would be at least some kind of evidence for that type of god....whether you reject it or not.
 
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stevil

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I understand that you'd change your mind if presented with appropriate evidence for changing your mind. I suspect even the very religious would.

That's not the question of the label though....you either believe in a god of sorts....or you don't.

If you don't...you're an atheist.
I'm definitely an atheist. An ignostic atheist.

I don't believe in gods, I don't even know what the criteria would be to assess whether someone or something is a god.
Like Sagan's Dragon in the garage, I'm not going to be sent on a wild goose chase for something that is ill defined. First come up with a coherent claim, a testifiable and falsifiable claim, don't go changing your definition after I have falsified it, don't keep coming up with excuses as to why when I searched I didn't find.
Come up with something that can allow itself to be categorically falsified.

Even if I did discover a god, don't assume I will worship it or even like it.
 
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Bradskii

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I mean I could throw out a topic on which there could be compromise and you would quickly see what I mean.

Politics is the Art Of Compromise. Throw something out there and let's see some genuine attempts to find that compromise.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm talking about perception here. I don't know you. I've never met you, never sat down with you for a drink or lunch, all I see is some of the posts and threads that you make here in this forum.

Right...I can understand that.

All I see is a multitude of threads created by you on the problems of racism against whites in USA.

The last time said this....I asked for the last three examples.

You can just copy and paste the links.

The fact that you ignored it last time....means if you ignore it again, I'm going to start to seriously question the claim you're making about me, if you even really believe it, and your motives.

Because I don't think I make a lot of threads. I'd be fine with the last 3 examples. It's not going to be difficult....You're telling me you've looked.

I have never seen you create any threads about the problems of racism against blacks in USA.

And I've explained why.

But I think maybe you have a blind spot regarding your own position, the evidence tells me you are primarily and most interested in problems facing whites, and not at all worried about the problems facing non whites.

Do you make copy threads on subjects that already have threads? I try to avoid it.

As you said stevil, this is your perception of me. I don't think your perception is even remotely accurate. I don't think you are making it on evidence. I don't think I post a lot of threads on the topic....but maybe I'm wrong. So before I get to the rest of your claims or take a look at the evidence myself....I'm giving you a chance to show there's some substance behind them.

This is me giving you a chance to show this isn't all in your mind...a matter of confirmation bias or something. Ultimately, I'm not responsible for any misperceptions you have me. If you are correct though, I'll address it.

Whether or not this discussion takes a sharp turn is going to be dependent upon your response. Again, I'm not responsible for any imperceptions you have of me. I'm not blaming you....we all have them....but your claims here seem to be tip toeing towards some sort of moral accusation. That's my perception.

I can't imagine what that would be...because even if you were correct about how frequently I bring up the topic, compared to the attention given to racism towards black people, I can't imagine why that would bother anyone at all.

So let's see what your basing this assessment on? It's funny that you seem to think black people are being denied access to anything after I posted an article about a black mayor of our biggest city trying to deny opportunities to white people. It's not that I can even say he's personally racist....he could just unknowingly be following the racist direction his party is going.

If I wanted to post frequently, I could give multiple clear examples of whites and blacks treated differently according to policy on the left. You're going to struggle to come up with a clear one that denies opportunities to black people....and instead have to explain that the racism is somehow hidden....because the policy doesn't mention race.

I don't know a better metric than this for determing where the problematic racists are. If one party keeps trying to divide people by race and treat them differently....and the other party doesn't, and I would have to assume it to even claim it exists....

It's not difficult to see who the racists are.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm definitely an atheist. An ignostic atheist.

I don't believe in gods, I don't even know what the criteria would be to assess whether someone or something is a god.
Like Sagan's Dragon in the garage, I'm not going to be sent on a wild goose chase for something that is ill defined. First come up with a coherent claim, a testifiable and falsifiable claim, don't go changing your definition after I have falsified it, don't keep coming up with excuses as to why when I searched I didn't find.
Come up with something that can allow itself to be categorically falsified.

Which is tough regarding the often conflicting description of Gods.
 
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Ana the Ist

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I'm definitely an atheist. An ignostic atheist.

And clearly not ashamed of it....and I'm sure you've seen polls. I'm sure you're aware that as a group we're often seen as least trustworthy or moral by the religious, compared to religious groups.

Yet I imagine it would be difficult to shame you into a position of belief.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I don't think that there's necessarily any inherent connection between atheism and liberal values or conservative values.

You can be an atheist and still be pro-gun, in favor of limited government, against "woke culture" etc...
Much like you can be an atheist and hold the opposite positions...


That highlights that "Democrat/Republican" isn't a 100% overlap with "liberal/conservative"

Where the GOP loses a lot of atheists (even ones that may be conservative on almost every issue) is when so many prominent GOP politicians use rhetoric about how "this country was founded on Christian values" or saying "we need to make return this country into being a Christian nation"

I would liken it to other non-political values. For instance, there's nothing inherently liberal or conservative about a person dietary choices. But if one party used rhetoric like "this is a meat eating nation", I'm fairly confident that I could accurately predict which party the majority of vegans would vote for.
 
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stevil

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And clearly not ashamed of it....and I'm sure you've seen polls. I'm sure you're aware that as a group we're often seen as least trustworthy or moral by the religious, compared to religious groups.

Yet I imagine it would be difficult to shame you into a position of belief.
I don't live in a religious family and I don't live in a particularly religious country.
NZ seems to be way more liberal and accepting of differences than USA or in particular bible belt states of USA. (my perception anyway, I have not been to USA)
 
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