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Featured Is there a second chance after death?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by W2L, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Chance= sunkuria=

    A meeting together with a coincidence of circumstances.

    The Father of all fathers is not running a giant heavenly gambling casino! NOT! There is no first chance, no second chance, no chance.

    His enterprise is based entirely upon Himself, not on chance.
     
  2. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    This doesn't mean what most people think it means, because they read that verse out of context. Jesus' point to Peter is that following his example of servanthood is the Way.
     
  3. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    I don't know how you get there...that interpretation I never have heard...and I'm an old Christian!
    Appears you do not wish to live within the confines of the Bible where you discover a right and a wrong; a punishment for a wrong a reward for faithfulness.
    The preceding discourse is on His sheep...faith is the way to salvation...unbelief means you remain in the clutches of Satan and reap the say penalty or judgement of the devil. Let's examine...
    John 14:5:
    Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”
    (This is the lead in sentence, right? Thomas' question to Jesus.)
    So where do you get that Jesus is telling Peter the way to get to where Jesus is then going/heaven is servanthood?
    You have derailed here and if you aren't careful you will derail the faith of others with such teachings; the faith of others may be shipwrecked by you.
     
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  4. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To include Jesus? Yes, it must be right.
     
  5. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    My mistake- Thomas said it. But it's clear that Thomas's perplexity is shared by the disciples in general.

    Brian McLaren made it obvious to me in one of his books discussing the verse in the context of the overall passage. It's not so much about the discourse of the sheep but the nature of the historical Jesus' ministry and his understanding of the Messiah as a servant.
     
  6. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    Brian McLaren is not answerable before God for you...he says what he thinks and he is wrong. One can read for oneself...the Bible itself makes this clear. The fact that Brian feels he needs to write a book to tell us what the bible says tells any spiritual Christian that he is most likely lost as of yet...and sadly you are following him. One cannot and should not accept man's word...which is fallible by nature...over and above God's Word which is perfect. It is the Holy Spirit within us that teaches us as we read the Word. This is not to say that there won't be some misunderstandings remaining...due to lack of faith or resistance to the Truth.
     
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  7. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    I was prepared to quit this thread, but I suppose I owe you an answer on Daniel 12:2. Fair enough...I happen to know there are other ways to translate language having to do with "forever," "everlasting" and "forever and ever." Here is how the Young's Literal renders the verse:

    "And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during."

    I find his terminology a bit clumsy, but the meaning is clear - instead of the KJV's sweeping for-ever's, Young properly renders "age-during," or we could say "for an age." The whole theology of eternal Heaven & Hell breaks down without "forever," "everlasting" and "forever and ever." It is also dependent on the doctrine of the Immortality of the Soul, which [surprise!] comes not from the Bible, but from Socrates and Plato. It's about as Christian as the pagan Roman poet, Virgil, guiding Dante through Hell.
     
  8. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

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    OTOH, I take it as a truism that the majority is always wrong. Anyway, since when does Truth depend on sheer numbers of adherents?
     
  9. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    McLaren grew up in a fundamentalist Christian home in the Plymouth Brethren. He is not at all ignorant of what Christians believe, he's just thought about the message of the Bible more deeply, and whether the fundamentalist religion he was raised with really measures up to Christ.

    Calling people you disagree with ignorant or evil is part of systems of religion based on spiritual abuse and manipulation, like cults. That sort of fear-based message doesn't resonate with me, as it does not with alot of modern people.
     
  10. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    Your answer regarding McLaren does not address the issue I raised at all...the second-hand nature of your learning doctrine and by this avenue relying quite fully on him for your salvation...try to be very honest with yourself long enough to really evaluate against the Word. It is only fashionable today to be woke and unable to find a line between good and evil and unable to see that God assigns those who act in these ways their just rewards or punishments. You speak of fear mongering as though tossing that term around makes you somewhat more perceptive...more perceptive than God? more just than God?
    There are those of us on this thread who have read through the Bible and have done so in a very contemplative and "convictive" and prayerful manner yet to lump us in with "fear mongers". That is not the attitude required to obtain knowledge and this is not noble character.
    It appears that McLaren, much like Muhammad, ship-wrecked his faith by thinking he knows better than the message itself...the word of God.
    I pray you turn from your current path.
     
  11. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    This is nothing but a polemic that is unfair to McLaren's perspective on the Bible.
     
  12. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    I wonder if you understand how unconvincing you are about the Gospel when you skirt the very words of God which He has given us to testify of Him and instead grab hold of the doctrine of Mclaren?
    Your comment of writing a polemic against Mclaren and how it raises your dander to defend him is indeed both telling and sad...I continue to pray that your eyes be opened.
     
  13. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    I don't agree with that approach to the Bible. I believe that the Bible should be studied like any other book to fully understand its meaning, rather than resting on human tradition of interpretation.
     
  14. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    With THAT approach? Which approach is that? reading it? Yes, read the Bible like any other book as I already said and the Holy Spirit will teach you about all things just as Jesus says and the book of I John (you'll see this as you simply read them as one reads a book.)
    You are being deceived into believing you are not using an interpreter...your interpreter is Brian McLaren.
     
  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Brian McLaren can't be lead by the Holy Spirit?
     
  16. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    If he prayerfully re-reads the Bible and starts using passages in context I'd credit him as on his way to becoming a true Christian. From what you have pointed out of his teachings and interpretations I'd have to say sadly, no, he's not led by the Spirit. Which means you have work to do...holy work. You must prayerfully read the Scriptures too, all for yourself, as though your eternity depended on understanding it. Once done write Brian McLaren a letter pointing out his errors so as to save him.
    If he doesn't turn from his ways though, don't be too surprised, it takes time. The scary thing is people like him who have gone way out on a limb and proclaimed their "findings" to about the entire world, do not wish to step down from their pedestal.
     
  17. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    From what I read, that seems to be what he did.

    If I were to read a book, especially one that people claim is of great significance, I would want to know about the actual authors, the background of the book, and so on, to help me understand it. The Bible is no different in that regard.

    How arrogant.
     
  18. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    I did not at all mean anything I wrote in an arrogant way.
    Believe we have both made our positions clear...let's end here...wasting time is never good.
     
  19. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The word "everlasting" that was used in the NIV came from the Hebrew word "עוֹלָם ". This is the same word used to describe the duration of life in Heaven. Can you then conclude that our life in heaven is "for an age" also? That life in heaven is only temporary?
     
  20. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    No, somewhere Jesus says he will never die.
    Here it is...
    John 8:51-53: (EHV)
    Amen, Amen, I tell you: If anyone holds on to my word, he will certainly never see death.”

    52 So the Jews said to him, “Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, and so did the prophets. Yet you say, ‘If anyone holds on to my word, he will certainly never taste death.’ 53 You are not greater than our father, Abraham, are you? He died. And the prophets died. Who do you think you are?”

    Nice, now the meaning doesn't turn on any one single definition of a word...eternity or eternal life.
     
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