Is there a need for Islam??

[ServantofTheOne]

the message of love and forgiveness in the bible is definitely positive and admirable. Islam also has guidance on forgiveness and love for humanity. However the topic we are covering is specifically equality of humanity and race.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action.(Muhammad(pbuh) last sermon)

we are taught of the unity of humanity and that we are all from a single pair and that none is superior over another based on race, ethnicity, or nationality.

love for brothers doesn't take away from love for humanity, one can have both.

i believe we got a sense of where both islam and catholicism stand on the issue. The posts here aren't intended to claim that islam has exclusivity on an issue. The claim here is that islam is the most comprehensive. You may disagree with the guidance islam offers on various subjects, however as i said before, it is what it is.

next topic,
tolerance

"Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. "(109:6)

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. "(2:256)

"If then they turn away, We have not sent you as a guard over them. Your duty is but to convey (the Message)…. (al-Shura 42:48)

"Invite (all) to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and discuss with them in ways that are best and most gracious. Your Lord knows best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance." (al-Nahl 16:125)

"And say, 'The truth is from your Lord, so whosoever wants let him believe and whosoever wants let him deny." (al-Nahl 18:29)

muslims recognize

-the dignity of the human beings
-the basic equality of all human beings,
-universal human rights
-fundamental freedom of thought, conscience and belief.

Tolerance is a basic principle of Islam. It is a religious moral duty. It does not mean "concession, condescension or indulgence." It does not mean lack of principles, or lack of seriousness about one's principles. Sometimes it is said, "People are tolerant of things that they do not care about." But this is not the case in Islam. Tolerance according to Islam does not mean that we believe that all religions are the same. It does not mean that we do not believe in the Superiority of Islam over other faiths and ideologies. It does not mean that we do not present the message of Islam and do not wish others to become Muslims.

this info has been taken from crescentlife.com, i don't want to post link because in the past i have had posts deleted.

 

[Bevlina]

Yes, but, isn't it Islam's wish to convert the world to Islam?

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Yes, but, isn't it Islam's wish to convert the world to Islam?

the post says "It does not mean that we do not present the message of Islam and do not wish others to become Muslims."

Wishing is a world of a difference from coercion or force.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

does catholicism have any guidance on subject of tolerance and freedom of religion?

the next and third subject that we could discuss is education and knowledge.
-------------------------------

In islam, to seek knowledge is a sacred duty, it is obligatory on every Muslim, male and female. The first word revealed of the Qur’an was "Iqra" READ! Seek knowledge! Educate yourselves! Be educated.

"....Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition. (The Noble Quran, 39:9)"

Sayings of the prophet(pbuh)
"The position of only two persons is enviable; the person whom Allah bestowed wealth empowering him to spend it in the way of righteousness, and the person whom Allah gave wisdom with which he adjudges and which he teaches to others."
"A single scholar of religion is more formidable against shaytaan than a thousand devout persons."
"He who acquires knowledge acquires a vast portion."
"If anyone going on his way in search of knowledge, God will, thereby make easy for him the way to Paradise."

"If anyone travels on a road in search of knowledge, Allah will cause him to travel on one of the roads of Paradise. The angels will lower their wings in their great pleasure with one who seeks knowledge, the inhabitants of the heavens and the Earth and the fish in the deep waters will ask forgiveness for the learned man. The superiority of the learned man over the devout is like that of the moon, on the night when it is full, over the rest of the stars. The learned are the heirs of the Prophets, and the Prophets leave neither dinar nor dirham, leaving only knowledge, and he who takes it takes an abundant portion. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Knowledge (Kitab Al-Ilm), Book 25, Number 3634)"

Not only should we seek knowledge, but when we learn it, it becomes obligatory on us to practice it. Though we must remember that correct knowledge should come before correct action. Knowledge without action is useless because a learned person without action will be the worst of creatures on the Day of Resurrection. Also, action should not be based on blind imitation for this is not the quality of a thinking, sensible human being.

Knowledge is pursued and practiced with modesty and humility and leads to beauty and dignity, freedom and justice.

The main purpose of acquiring knowledge is to bring us closer to God. It is not simply for the gratification of the mind or the senses. It is not knowledge for the sake of knowledge or science for the value of sake. Knowledge accordingly must be linked with values and goals.

One of the purposes of acquiring knowledge is to gain the good of this world, not to destroy it through wastage, arrogance and in the reckless pursuit of higher standards of material comfort.

Another purpose of knowledge is to spread freedom and dignity, truth and justice. It is not to gain power and dominance for its own sake.


-----------this info is taken from a website ------------------------------------

 

[Montalban]

No compulsion in religion?

the message of love and forgiveness in the bible is definitely positive and admirable. Islam also has guidance on forgiveness and love for humanity. However the topic we are covering is specifically equality of humanity and race.

Your last sentence should continue "... which has been abrogated by teachings supporting violence".

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action.(verMuhammad last sermon)

Then why must prayers be in Arabic?

we are taught of the unity of humanity and that we are all from a single pair and that none is superior over another based on race, ethnicity, or nationality.
love for brothers doesn't take away from love for humanity, one can have both.

As shown by my previous post 'brother' for Muslims means co-religionist.

i believe we got a sense of where both Islam and Catholicism stand on the issue. The posts here aren't intended to claim that Islam has exclusivity on an issue. The claim here is that Islam is the most comprehensive. You may disagree with the guidance Islam offers on various subjects, however as i said before, it is what it is.

Islam teaches more exclusively violence. Muhammad didn't get many converts until he started to use the sword. Then he offered people a choice; death (maybe slavery), or conversion

next topic,
tolerance
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. "(2:256)

This verse has been abrogated. Aside from how Muslims are to treat non-Moslems (which I've gone into some length in the past), there are prohibitions (in Islamic tradition) on pain of death for a Muslim wishing to convert to another faith.
"The renowned Egyptian theologian, Muhammad Muhammad Abu Zahra (1898-1974) speaks of three cases in which a Moslem may be punished by the death penalty; apostasy, bawdiness following a properly legal marriage and any murder except family vendettas ."
The commandment to execute the apostate is, however, derived not so much from the Koran as from Islamic tradition, for the traditions from Mohammed's lifetime are much more explicit: "Kill anyone who changes his religion", and "He who separates himself from you (or repudiates the faith) must die" .
Tradition relates that Muhammad himself illegally mutilated and killed apostates who have been said to have killed some of his followers. J. Schacht discusses the Islamic attempt to justify Muhammad's action , for which the Koran offers no clear revelation which would have commanded such a course of action. Other traditions exist as well, in which Muhammad at the end of his life, following the capture of his family's city Mecca, executed two apostates who had killed a Moslem, as well as another who is reported to have done nothing illegal .
http://www.worthynews.com/news-features/human-rights-muslim-understanding.html
"It is clear quite clear that under Islamic Law an apostate must be put to death. There is no dispute on this ruling among classical Muslim or modern scholars, and we shall return to the textual evidence for it. Some modern scholars have argued that in the Koran the apostate is threatened with punishment only in the next world, as for example at XVI.106, “Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief –save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with the Faith but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom.” Similarly in III.90-91, “Lo! those who disbelieve after their (profession of) belief, and afterward grow violent in disbelief, their repentance will not be accepted. And such are those who are astray. Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such an one if it were offered as a ransom (for his soul).Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.”
However, Sura II.217 is interpreted by no less an authority than al-Shafi’i(died 820 C.E.), the founder of one of the four orthodox schools of law of Sunni Islam to mean that the death penalty should be prescribed for apostates. Sura II.217 reads: “… But whoever of you recants and dies an unbeliever , his works shall come to nothing in this world and the next, and they are the companions of the fire for ever.” Al-Thalabi and al -Khazan concur. Al-Razi in his commentary on II:217 says the apostate should be killed."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/001590.php
"Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle (Muhammad) said, 'The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 9:83:17)
Further to that, a Christian woman who marries a Muslim man may not raise her children as Christians, and is severely restricted from freely practicing her faith within the household
(see http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=e...e&QR=3320&dgn=4)
ideologies. It does not mean that we do not present the message of Islam and do not wish others to become Muslims.

this info has been taken from crescentlife.com, i don't want to post link because in the past i have had posts deleted.

You mean 'misinformation'
"Question :
How is a woman to be punished if she marries a Christian? How often is it carried out and in what countries is it most common?
Answer : Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for a Muslim woman to marry a kaafir (non-Muslim), whether he is Jewish, Christian or an idol-worshipper, because the man has authority over his wife, and it is not permissible for a kaafir to have authority over a Muslim woman. For Islam is the true religion and all other religions are false. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And give not (your daughters) in marriage to Al‑Mushrikoon till they believe (in Allaah Alone)” [al-Baqarah 2:221]
“And never will Allaah grant to the disbelievers a way (to triumph) over the believers” [al-Nisaa’ 4:141]
And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Islam should prevail and should not be prevailed over.”
If a Muslim woman marries a kaafir when she knows the ruling, then she is a zaaniyah (adulteress), and her punishment is the punishment for adultery."
What is the punishment for adultery? Death!
(Note also, a Muslim man may marry a Jewish or Christian woman; undermining the 'equality' message of Islam ) However, Moslem men are not encouraged to marry Christian women because...
"But marriage to women of the People of the Book leads to a great deal of mischief and trouble, such as:
1. He may have to be courteous to this wife of his at the expense of his religion, especially if she is “very committed” to her own religion. This may mean that she will hang up crosses and go to the church, and the children will not be safe in this environment.
2. She is not going to wash properly after finishing her period, or tell him not to have intercourse with her when she is menstruating; she is going to make him do something that is wrong according to sharee’ah and cause him physical harm.
3. He is going to be put in an embarrassing situation because of her careless attitude concerning dress and her mixing with men and speaking to them.
4. The states and governments of these women of the Book will be on their side and will give them custody of the children if differences arise and divorce takes place. This will cause these children to be lost and to fall into kufr. Such cases are too well known to need mentioning here and too many to count. "
One of the poets said:
“Marriage to a Christian is an abhorrent action which leads to the kufr of the children for sure.
Whoever accepts for a child of his to be a kaafir is himself a kaafir, even if he claims to be a Muslim.
A man may become a kaafir, following his wife, and enter the Fire of Hell forever.
You must look for one who is religiously committed, if you want a sound marriage.
Forget about the people of kufr and beware of marrying them, for that will lead to a lot of evil.
The children of such a marriage will not be guided; they will swell the ranks of evildoers.
http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&QR=20227

How is the threat of death not a compulsion?

 

[Montalban]

the post says "It does not mean that we do not present the message of Islam and do not wish others to become Muslims."

Wishing is a world of a difference from coercion or force.

Your last sentence is true, but misleading in the context of the present discussion as it is the aim of Islam to make the world Moslem by whatever means it can

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Your last sentence is true, but misleading in the context of the present discussion as it is the aim of Islam to make the world Moslem by whatever means it can

Islam is based on Qur'an and complimented by authentic Hadith.

I already referenced from Qur'an and Hadith why islam is tolerant and it says clearly "let there be no compulsion in religion", there is no ambiguity there and it is also sensible that no one can be forced to be a religion faith comes only out of self conviction. You may disagree, it is your opinion, but islam is based on those sources not based your interpretation. You many claim that these verses are "abrogated" by other verses, but again that is your interpretation, most if not all of the muslims believe otherwise that there can be no compulsion in religion.

Why arabic?
because we are instructed to do so., and we obey our Creator.

translations are rarely exactly the same as the original, plus there would be multiple different translations and if you had your way muslims would be saying prayers differently throughout the world. We have one god, Allah, one (qiblah)direction of prayer, Kaaba, we say our prayers in one language, Arabic.

there is no doubt that when translations are made the original is not exactly the same.

I am presenting my arguments as to why there is a need for islam. My position is that islam offers humanity comprehensive guidance like no other religion or philosophy. you may disagree with islam but it is what it is. i invite you to share what your religion says about the topics discussed so far. You offered the position of christianity in your post about "love thy neighbor..", let us continue. do you have anything to say about the second(tolerance) and third subjects(education and knowledge). what does your religion say about these things.

 

[Montalban]

Islam is based on Qur'an and complimented by authentic Hadith.

Yes. And also on the rulings by commentators.

I already referenced from Qur'an and Hadith why Islam is tolerant and it says clearly "let there be no compulsion in religion", there is no ambiguity there and it is also sensible that no one can be forced to be a religion faith comes only out of self conviction. You may disagree, it is your opinion, but Islam is based on those sources not based your interpretation. You many claim that these verses are "abrogated" by other verses, but again that is your interpretation, most if not all of the Muslims believe otherwise that there can be no compulsion in religion.

I don't understand why you'd wish to be so misleading. The sources I cited for the compulsion of religion were (mostly) Islamic. The ruling that a woman can be stoned to death if she marries a non-Muslim is from an Islamic cite. The texts of commentaries on death for apostasy were Islamic (though the source quoting them was not). It therefore is not a matter of 'my opinion' despite your attempts to mislead readers into that conclusion.
It is as I stated, clear in the Koran that there are verses as you say, but these have been ABROGATED, that is, over-turned by other texts in the Koran. It is again misleading of you to pretend that this has not happened. It therefore is your opinion of Islam.

Why Arabic?
because we are instructed to do so., and we obey our Creator.

That's all well and nice, but when you say that all nations are 'equal' before al-lah, but they've all got to learn your language, it makes a mockery of the notion of equality - excepting insofar as they all equally have to learn another language.

translations are rarely exactly the same as the original, plus there would be multiple different translations and if you had your way Muslims would be saying prayers differently throughout the world. We have one god, Allah, one (qiblah)direction of prayer, Kaaba, we say our prayers in one language, Arabic.
there is no doubt that when translations are made the original is not exactly the same.

I don't know what other peoples have the same difficulties then as you. Nations get on quite well with one another using treaties etc that have to be translated. The Bible is quite easily transportable into most of the world's languages. Though this does lead to some interesting transliterations (e.g. in Innuit "The Lord is my shepherd" becomes "I am the Lord's husky"), the problem of reading something into Arabic, itself problematic. English which is spoken all over the world, is not the same. Arabic too, if it were to ever gain hold through Islam would be regionalised.

I am presenting my arguments as to why there is a need for Islam. My position is that Islam offers humanity comprehensive guidance like no other religion or philosophy. you may disagree with Islam but it is what it is.

Your opinion of Islam, the one you represent is not normative. Go check out which verses have been abrogated.

i invite you to share what your religion says about the topics discussed so far. You offered the position of Christianity in your post about "love thy neighbour..", let us continue. do you have anything to say about the second(tolerance) and third subjects(education and knowledge). what does your religion say about these things.

Thank you for the invitation. I will get back to you on this soon. I have already stated about tolerance, per se on a thread that got blocked.

Just on another point: I have read that the idea of temporary marriage is in the Koran, but the texts for its abrogation are in the Hadith, thus making the Hadith superior; as they can over-turn the Koran.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Thank you for the invitation. I will get back to you on this soon. I have already stated about tolerance, per se on a thread that got blocked.

I will be awaiting to learn what christianity says about those other subjects.

On your other points, as i said before it your interpretation, i already offered what most if not all muslims believe as far as equality, and tolerance, and no compulsion in religion.

I presented what was in our scripture, i would like to know what is in your scripture on these other issues as well.

The plethora of posts and threads you offer in order to misdirect islam for those who don't know is either the result of you being paid, or you having some negative experience with muslims. i don't know what it is, but it is becomming obvious that instead of presenting the merits of your own religion your approach is to bash others down.

Is there a precedent for this type of behaviour in your religion, are you following some guidance in your religion to do such things.

I don't attempt to tell you what your religion IS, while you are attempting to tell me what islam IS. you tell me what you believe and i will tell you what i believe. lets stop the nonsense.

 

[Montalban]

I will be awaiting to learn what Christianity says about those other subjects.

If you don't hear from me, you'll have to remind me

On your other points, as i said before it your interpretation, i already offered what most if not all Muslims believe as far as equality, and tolerance, and no compulsion in religion.

Well that's just arrogant. I post a number of sources, and you call it my interpretation. You post only your opinion, and proclaim it's what most Moslems believe.

I presented what was in our scripture, i would like to know what is in your scripture on these other issues as well.

This is your red-herring. Many times the Bible will not deal with things the Koran deals with, and visa versa. It has nothing to do with the topic.

The plethora of posts and threads you offer in order to misdirect Islam for those who don't know is either the result of you being paid, or you having some negative experience with Muslims. i don't know what it is, but it is becoming obvious that instead of presenting the merits of your own religion your approach is to bash others down.

A number of points
a) the number of posts are from Islamic sites too!
b) this forum in not about promoting Orthodoxy... I'd be happy to do so.

Is there a precedent for this type of behaviour in your religion, are you following some guidance in your religion to do such things.

Know the truth and it will set you free.
I post from Islamic sites, and you call it my opinion. I post facts about Islam and you cry "Lies! Lies! Lies!"

I don't attempt to tell you what your religion IS, while you are attempting to tell me what Islam IS. you tell me what you believe and i will tell you what i believe. lets stop the nonsense.

You're welcome to critique Orthodoxy. I have my own criticisms of the Orthodox Church. The 'nonsense' you talk of involves you switching your mind off and simply accepting Islam, and thus presenting mutually exclusive arguments, as if there's no problem.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

If you don't hear from me, you'll have to remind me

Well that's just arrogant. I post a number of sources, and you call it my interpretation. You post only your opinion, and proclaim it's what most Moslems believe.

all of the muslims on this forum would most like agree with what i posted regarding those three subjects. But you still seek to tell us what islam IS.

This is your red-herring. Many times the Bible will not deal with things the Koran deals with, and visa versa. It has nothing to do with the topic.

A number of points
a) the number of posts are from Islamic sites too!
b) this forum in not about promoting Orthodoxy... I'd be happy to do so.

whenever you want to put aside an issue you call it a "red-herring", this thread is about whether or not ther is a need for islam, and my position is YES, one of the reasons is that it offers the most comprehensive guidance on how to live a meaningful and moral life. but to this Bevlina said "I disagree with you there ServantofTheOne. Christianity also has guidelines and comprehensive guidelines at that. And these would be more comprehensive than Islam considering the fact that some have been made into the Laws of the Lands.", and i invited her to discuss her position. you joined the discussion and put forward "love thy neighbor" post as support for bevlina's statement, now that we are continuing you pull a "this forum is not about promoting orthodoxy" and you want to leave it at that. Please share what orthodoxy scripture says about religious tolerance and the importance of education and knowledge.

Know the truth and it will set you free.
I post from Islamic sites, and you call it my opinion. I post facts about Islam and you cry "Lies! Lies! Lies!"

you call "answering-islam.com" islamic sites?? are you certain. It seems you get most of your opinions on islam from such sites.

You're welcome to critique Orthodoxy. I have my own criticisms of the Orthodox Church. The 'nonsense' you talk of involves you switching your mind off and simply accepting Islam, and thus presenting mutually exclusive arguments, as if there's no problem.

i'm not here to critique anyone or any religion, i am here to share knowledge and to learn from others. Those who attack other religions are committing a disservice to themselves.

"switching your mind off and simply accepting islam"
actually islam switches my mind on. islam encourages me to open my mind, encourages me to gain knowledge. As i showed in our scripture the value of education and pursuit of knowledge is enormous in islam.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

the next subject i will propose: the environment.

Is there a need for environmental guidance in our world?? yes.

------------------------------------
A closer look at the Prophet’s life reveals that he was a staunch advocate of environmental protection. One could say he was an “environmentalist avant la lettre”, a pioneer in the domain of conservation, sustainable development and resource management, one who constantly sought to maintain a harmonious balance between man and nature. From all accounts of his life and deeds, we read that the Prophet had a profound respect for fauna and flora, as well as an almost visceral connection to the four elements, earth, water, fire and air.

He was a strong proponent of the sustainable use and cultivation of land and water, proper treatment of animals, plants and birds, and the equal rights of users. In this context the modernity of the Prophet’s view of the environment and the concepts he introduced to his followers is particularly striking; certain passages of the Hadith could easily be mistaken for discussions about contemporary environmental issues.

The three most important principles of the Prophet’s philosophy of nature are based on the Qur’anic teachings and the concepts of tawheed (unity), khalifa (stewardship) and amana (trust).
Tawheed, the oneness of God, is a cornerstone of the Islamic faith. It recognises the fact that there is one absolute Creator and that man is responsible to Him for all his actions. The Qur’an says what means: (To God belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth, for God encompasses everything.) [4:126]
The Prophet acknowledges that God is in everything. Therefore abusing one of his creations, whether it is a living being or a natural resource, is a sin. The Prophet considered all of God’s creations to be equal before God and he believed animals, but also land, forests and watercourses should have rights.
The concepts of khalifa, stewardship, and amana, trust, emerge from the principle of tawheed. The Qur’an explains that mankind holds a privileged position among God’s creations on earth: he is chosen as khalifa, “vicegerent” and carries the responsibility of caring for God’s earthly creations. Each individual is given this task and privilege in the form of God’s trust. But the Qur’an repeatedly warns believers against arrogance: they are no better than other creatures: (Surely the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of man; but most people know not.) [40:57]

The Prophet recognised man’s responsibility to God but always maintained humility. Thus he said: “When doomsday comes, if someone has a palm shoot in his hand, he should plant it,” suggesting that even when all hope is lost for mankind, one should sustain nature’s growth. He believed that nature remains a good in itself, even if man does not benefit from it.
Similarly, the Prophet incited believers to share the earth’s resources. He said: “Muslims share alike in three things – water, herbage and fire,” and he considered it a sin to withhold water from the thirsty.
The Prophet’s attitude towards the sustainable use of land, conservation of water and the treatment of animals is a further illustration of the humility of his environmental philosophy.

The Qur’an constantly reminds believers that they are but the guardians of God’s creation on earth and that they should never take this creation for granted: (Consider the water which you drink. Was it you that brought it down from the rain cloud or We? If We had pleased, We could make it bitter.) [56:68-70]
Saving water and safeguarding its purity were two important issues for the Prophet: we have seen that his concern about the sustainable use of water led to the creation of haram zones in the vicinity of water sources. But even when water was abundant, he advocated thriftiness: thus he recommended that believers perform wudu’ no more than three times, even if they were near to a flowing spring or river. The Prophet also warned against water pollution by forbidding urination in stagnant water.

The Treatment of Animals



The Prophet once said, “If anyone wrongfully kills even a sparrow, let alone anything greater, he will face God’s interrogation” [Mishkat al-Masabih]. These words reflect the great reverence, respect and love that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) always showed towards animals. He believed that as part of God’s creation, animals should be treated with dignity and the Hadith contains a large collection of traditions, admonitions and stories about his relationship to animals.

Sustainable Use of Land
“The earth has been created for me as a mosque and as a means of purification.” [Al-Bukhari I:331] With these words the Prophet emphasises the sacred nature of earth or soil, not only as a pure entity but also as a purifying agent. This reverence towards soil is also demonstrated in the ritual of tayammum, or “dry wudu’” which permits the use of dust in the performance of ritual purification before prayer when water is not available.

The All-Merciful has taught the Qur'an.
He created man
and He taught him the explanation.
The sun and the moon to a reckoning,
and the stars and trees bow themselves;
and heaven - He raised it up and set the balance.
Transgress not in the balance,
and weigh with justice, and skimp not in
the balance.
And earth - He set it down for all beings,
therein fruits and palm trees with sheaths,
and grain in the blade, and fragrant herbs.
Of which your Lord's bounties will you and
you deny?
55: 1-12
-------------------------------------------------------info taken from website ------------------------

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Islam is the ONLY religion and way of life with comprehensive guidance on all matters concerning the life of people. We have definitive guidelines that we can refer to when deciding right from wrong, and deciding what to do and what not to do.

Other religions have certain positive aspects and spiritual guidance but NONE have the comprehensiveness of islam.

If you know of a religion that is more comprehensive than islam, then please suggest it with evidence.

So far i have posted islam's guidance on 4 topics

1. oneness of humanity and racism
2. tolerance of other religions
3. value of education and pursuit of knowledge
4. respect for and gaurdianship of the environment

I would be interested to know what other religions have to say about all these issues, please back your statements up with scripture. keep in mind that these topics are just the beginning.

I am not claiming that islam has exclusivity on guidance on a particular issue, what i contend is that it is the most comprehensive guidance in all matters of living.

And this is just one of the reasons why there is a need for islam in the world.

 

[TheTempleTeam]

Hey There I've been watching this for a wee while, just thought I'd pop in with a few issues that are previlent in American Culture at the moment. Gay Marriage and Abortion. Since these issues seem to the be extent of what America calls 'morals' at the moment it's pretty important for Islam's view on the issues to be heard.

Thank You
Dave

 

[Montalban]

Saint Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, Saint Maximus the Confessor, Saint Gregory of Nyssa, and Saint John Chrysostomon all themselves received a good education.
http://www.wirnowski.com/Orthodoxy/B_ChFathers.html

And as such St. John Chrysostomon wrote about parenting (see: "Admonitions for Parents: Lessons by Our Holy Father John Chrysostomos on Raising Children" at
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/parenting.aspx) where he urges parental responsibility of both partners, and part of this is teaching children.

This interteraction is relected by the comment "Parents must know exactly what is being taught their children in education courses" http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/rose_wv.aspx

Jesus Himself was referred to as rabbi, which means teacher.

That's a small bit on education.

Now, getting back to the nitty-gritty.

Well that's just arrogant. I post a number of sources, and you call it my interpretation. You post only your opinion, and proclaim it's what most Moslems believe.

all of the Muslims on this forum would most like agree with what I posted regarding those three subjects. But you still seek to tell us what Islam IS.

And you continue to use this piece of deception; reducing the argument I present as one of just my opinion. This is plainly false because I often cite from Islamic sites. You can't deal with this, so you continue to post such dishonest statements.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Hey There I've been watching this for a wee while, just thought I'd pop in with a few issues that are previlent in American Culture at the moment. Gay Marriage and Abortion. Since these issues seem to the be extent of what America calls 'morals' at the moment it's pretty important for Islam's view on the issues to be heard.

Thank You
Dave

Dave,

abortions for convenience is prohibited in islam, we abhor the killing of unborn babies because it is not comfortable for the parents to bear. This is akin to the pre-islamic arabian practice of burying infant daughters alive. islam abolished such crimes. In some countries where abortion is allowed and the value of male children is percieved as greater than female, the practice of aborting the female fetuses is like that pre-islamic practice of burying infant girls. I don't understand how just because the baby is inside the mother's uterus, it is the mother's "right to choose" life or death for another soul. The practice is dispicable. It will never be acceptable in islam, we don't compromise islam's laws.

islam is a practical religion, there are cases where abortions are permissible, like if the fetus endangers the health of the mother, or if the pregnancy is the result of a crime. We believe there is a time when the soul of the baby enters its body, i believe its 3 months(or 10 weeks, i'm not sure) after conception., after this point it is a full human being, with full rights to life.
But abortion out of convenience is unequivically prohibited.
Contraception is not prohibited in islam.


gay marriage
muslims are completely against homosexual relations, let alone same sex marriage, we reject it without compromise. It is an abomination. It cannot be condoned on a societal level, however whatever happens in the privacy of ones home, no one has the right to trespass and tell them what is right or wrong without permission. We believe in the sanctity of privacy.

Islam is a complete guidance for mankind, its laws are not alterable based on desires of man. These laws cannot change with time, where one day it will be acceptable because the majority of the public deems it to be so. The laws of islam are absolute.

If you want more info on these or other subjects let me know.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Saint Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, Saint Maximus the Confessor, Saint Gregory of Nyssa, and Saint John Chrysostomon all themselves received a good education.
http://www.wirnowski.com/Orthodoxy/B_ChFathers.html

is there guidance in the bible that admonished them to recieve a good education. I am interested in knowing if there is specific guidance in the bible, which is the basis of christianity, in regard of seeking knowledge, not only in matters of religion but of science and investigating and understanding the natural world.

And as such St. John Chrysostomon wrote about parenting (see: "Admonitions for Parents: Lessons by Our Holy Father John Chrysostomos on Raising Children" at
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/parenting.aspx) where he urges parental responsibility of both partners, and part of this is teaching children.

again, i didn't see any references in this article pointing to a particular bible verse. it does say however that

" Let everything take second place to our care for our children, our bringing them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. If from the beginning we teach them to love true wisdom, they will have greater wealth and glory than riches can provide. If a child learns a trade, or is highly educated for a lucrative profession all this is nothing compared to the art of detachment from riches; if you want to make your child rich, teach him this. He is truly rich who does not desire great possessions or surround himself with wealth, but who requires nothing. This is how to discipline and teach your child; this is the greatest of riches. Do not worry about giving him an influential reputation for worldly wisdom, but ponder deeply how you can teach him to think lightly of this lifes passing glories; thus he will become truly renowned and glorious."

"All will begin to respect him when they see that he is not irascible and seeking after power. Know this, educate your children in the discipline and knowledge of the Lord."

It admonishes the knowledge of the Lord, but suggests to leave worldy knowledge on the sideline.

Jesus Himself was referred to as rabbi, which means teacher.
That's a small bit on education.

ok did Jesus(pbuh) teach anything specifically on the values of education and seeking knowledge, both worldy and spiritual?

 

[ServantofTheOne]

can NOTW or anyone else pickup where montalban left off on this discussion.

 

[Montalban]

No, this is a time-wasting effort of yours. We could look at what your various religious texts say about how PoWs are to be treated too!

 

[ServantofTheOne]

No, this is a time-wasting effort of yours. We could look at what your various religious texts say about how PoWs are to be treated too!

sure if you like. But i am awaiting to here if what bevlina said is true, that christianity is as comprehensive as islam. If it is then i would like to hear the position of christianity on multiple issues.

But if you think it is a waste of time, then its ok perhaps someone else could undertake the task of discussion.