Is there a need for Islam??

[ServantofTheOne]

This is irrelevant to the points i have made Servant.
Also what do you mean by comprehensive? Covering all aspects of life? Or saying one things in a sura and then denying it again in another sura? Is that what you means by comprehensive? You have not answered back on the points i mentioned, it seems you wanna change topics!

comprehensive as in addressing and guiding human life.

The topic of this thread is "is there a need for Islam", thus islam's comprehensiveness and its completeness is very relevant to the topic. if you don't know of any other religion that can compare to islam's comprehensiveness then its ok.

My contention is that islam, when viewed from a warped perspective like yours, might be regarded as "wierd", "strange", etc. you are entitled to your opinion of islam, but please don't go and spread false information intentionally. just state your opinions as they are.

in response to your opinion, its not important what other people's opinion is about islam. islam is what it is.

It gives us clear guidance of that which is right and that which is wrong.

you may disagree with it, but it is what it is.

 

[Montalban]

comprehensive as in addressing and guiding human life.

The topic of this thread is "is there a need for Islam", thus islam's comprehensiveness and its completeness is very relevant to the topic. if you don't know of any other religion that can compare to islam's comprehensiveness then its ok.

My contention is that islam, when viewed from a warped perspective like yours, might be regarded as "wierd", "strange", etc. you are entitled to your opinion of islam, but please don't go and spread false information intentionally. just state your opinions as they are.

in response to your opinion, its not important what other people's opinion is about islam. islam is what it is.

It gives us clear guidance of that which is right and that which is wrong.

you may disagree with it, but it is what it is.

No, as I've discussed with Moslems over Muhammed's behaviour, they always justify it by saying it was legal, or approved of. Thus for you what is 'moral' is the same as what is 'legal' (that is unless you live in a non-Muslim nation)

 

[ServantofTheOne]

No, as I've discussed with Moslems over Muhammed's behaviour, they always justify it by saying it was legal, or approved of. Thus for you what is 'moral' is the same as what is 'legal' (that is unless you live in a non-Muslim nation)

you are entitled to disagree with the morality of islam, but it is what it is.

 

[Montalban]

you are entitled to disagree with the morality of islam, but it is what it is.

Then Islam is based on the biggest 'just-so' statement. Why would al-lah create a moral system that pretends to be absolute, but is dictated by custom?

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Islam is the ONLY religion and way of life with comprehensive guidance on all matters concerning the life of people. We have definitive guidelines that we can refer to when deciding right from wrong, and deciding what to do and what not to do.

Other religions have certain positive aspects and spiritual guidance but NONE have the comprehensiveness of islam.

If you know of a religion that is more comprehensive than islam, then please suggest it with evidence.

 

[The_true_path]

You still do NOT get the point. we talk about islam not muslims and what they do. ISLAM ALLOWED MORE THAN 1 WOMAN. THIS MEANS WOMEN ARE NOT EQUAL TO MEN IN ISLAM. TOGETHER WITH ALL THE OTHER PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED IMPURITIES OF ISLAM, WE CAN EASILY CONCLUDE THAT ISLAM IS NOT FROM THE TRUE GOD BUT FROM SATAN. THIS IS TO KEEP YOU BUSY AND AWAY FROM YOUR SALVATION.

Actually you contradict your self; you said the problem from Islam not from Muslims,

Because the Muslims follow Islam in proper way, and because you aren’t understand Islam as Muslims, you see Muslims behavior is good but Islam is not good,

Islam did not forbid polygamy, that doesn’t mean Islam ordain every Muslims to have 4 wife. Just he did not forbid it and there are some reasons for that, we explained it before.

 

[Bevlina]

Islam is the ONLY religion and way of life with comprehensive guidance on all matters concerning the life of people. We have definitive guidelines that we can refer to when deciding right from wrong, and deciding what to do and what not to do.

Other religions have certain positive aspects and spiritual guidance but NONE have the comprehensiveness of islam.

If you know of a religion that is more comprehensive than islam, then please suggest it with evidence.

I disagree with you there ServantofTheOne. Christianity also has guidelines and comprehensive guidelines at that. And these would be more comprehensive than Islam considering the fact that some have been made into the Laws of the Lands.

 

[MAXX]

Actually you contradict your self; you said the problem from Islam not from Muslims,

Because the Muslims follow Islam in proper way, and because you aren’t understand Islam as Muslims, you see Muslims behavior is good but Islam is not good,

Islam did not forbid polygamy, that doesn’t mean Islam ordain every Muslims to have 4 wife. Just he did not forbid it and there are some reasons for that, we explained it before.

someone is shouting here

 

[Alchemist]

Hi Farid,

Love? How, when it was spread by force, killing those people that lived peacefully in their countries, e.g. Egypt. Islam is still agressive; consider suicide bombers to know how unmerciful it is.

Most Christians would consider that killing other people because of one's religion is not a just or holy thing to do. I would say most Muslims would agree. The Qu'ran itself states that people who kill themselves will face the Muslim equivalent of 'fire and brimstone'. To judge all Muslims on the actions of suicide bombers is like judging all Muslims based on the actions of the KKK.

Peace? All islamic countries are full of contentions and hatred, even for the harmless minorities.

Perhaps, there are countries where governments are corrupt. I for one would be offended that in some Muslim countries I would have to pay special taxes etc. just because I am a Christian. But this is corruption at government level, it is not Islam. Christian and other religious leaders throughout time have (supposedly) used Christian morals as the basis for their political decisions, and often have broken Christian teachings in doing so. I would say that there is a lot of hate in the world full-stop... to blame it on one religion is a bit invalid.

Purity? What a joke! Consider the 70 virgins and boys in islamic paradise.

Indeed, I find this verse's place in the Qu'ran difficult to comprehend. But as a rule, people following Islam are taught to be good, and work to purify themselves from desires of the flesh etc., just like in Christianity. Put it another way; do you think those who follow Christian teachings to simply walk the streets of gold in paradise, and attend the huge feast in heaven will really make it there? Likewise, anyone who follows Allah for the 70 virgins is bound to be disappointed...

Justice? When you discover your husband is married to another 3 women at the same time?

Marriage done in secret without the other wife's knowledge would obviously not be valid?

Or when the woman inherits half what the man does.

This is not exclusive Muslim teaching; the inheritance law is a common law in many Western countries, including my own. In fact, with the passing of the Civil Union Bill recently, this also extends to legally-recognised de facto and homosexual relationships.

Or when the testemony of one man equals that of two women before courts.

Dunno about this one, but was it not the same in the time of Christ, under Jewish custom?

Joy? Look at most Muslims, and you will see the misery in their thoughts and actions.

Really? I have known several Muslim people, they seem pretty happy to me. In fact, they seem overjoyed to practise what they believe to be a pure and truthful religion.

See their frustruations when you question their islam?

Do you not get frustrated when people question your faith?

Truth? Complete denial when you prove a point. They cannot admit they are wrong, because they know once they do admit, it is the end of islam.

Although I have seen many questions left answered by Muslims, I think all people on this board do this to a certain degree. Many a Christian have I seen flood posts with nothing but ad hominem accusations and unsubstantiated claims about their own and others religions. Though we may grow frustrated at arguments such as 'the Qu'ran says so, so it must be right', indeed many Christians use this argument, 'the Qu'ran' substituted with 'the Bible'. I do have sympathy with this point, but I think it is something we can (and should) all work on; Muslims, Christians, and other religious persons alike.


So in response to your OP:


"What is it that islam offers that Christianity does not offers?" [sic]


Probably nothing. But this is a moot point. Many religions have love, peace, purity, justice, joy for believers, and, to certain extent, truth. What we should be perhaps asking is "what religion offers the fullness of the truth?"


Peace,
Alchemist

 

[ServantofTheOne]

I disagree with you there ServantofTheOne. Christianity also has guidelines and comprehensive guidelines at that. And these would be more comprehensive than Islam considering the fact that some have been made into the Laws of the Lands.

alchemist says it 100% right.
"what religion offers the fullness of the truth?"

it should be the objective of every single person to investigate both the path they are on and other paths to either confirm the truth or to find the truth. In doing so it would be dishonest to obtain information of path Y from an anti-Y source. There is too much bashing on this forum from all sides. It doesn't say much about the character and tolerance of a person when they are obviously with malicious intent posting untruths and heresay about another's religion. What are we to derive from this type of behaviour, are we to be drawn to like them?? to admire them?? just the opposite. Let us discuss in fair and positive manner.

Bevlina, to my question you propose that christianity is as comprehensive as islam. I assume you are referring to catholicism, if this is incorrect then say so. Now the rules are that anything you post it must be supported by scripture or other evidence from an authority from our respective religions. There are many similarities in our religions and many aspects that both address, so i will start off with something that i believe islam has that catholicism doesn't, but i could be wrong, if i am then please post the correction. i will not make any statements about catholicism and will not deny what you claim about catholicism as long as you post your evidence.

i will start with...
oneness of humanity and racism

islam teaches humanity that we are but one humanity, descendants of a single pair, and that there should be no racism against one another.

​

O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.(4:1)​

​

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
(49:13)

And so amongst men and crawling creatures and cattle, are they of various colours. Those truly fear Allah, among His Servants, who have knowledge: for Allah is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving.
(35:28) ​

​

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white - except by piety and good action.(Muhammad(pbuh) last sermon)​

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Does catholicism have any guidance on equality and race?

 

[S Walch]

Christianity certainly does.

"Love your Neighbour as yourself"

That's all there is to it

 

[ServantofTheOne]

Christianity certainly does.

"Love your Neighbour as yourself"

That's all there is to it

indeed the golden rule.

is there anything else in catholicism regarding the subject of equality and race?

what of those who are not your neighbor? those who live in far away lands, those who are of a different skin color, or speak different languages.

is there any quidance in catholocism as to relationship between all peoples, ethnicities, and race.

 

[S Walch]

...You obvioulsy don't understand that passage at all do you?

the "your neighbour" it is refering too is EVERY OTHER HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET!!

not just your actual *neighbour*

So, it doesn't matter what race, colour, town, religion etc that a person comes from - you shall love EVERYBODY as yourself.

 

[Bin Qasim]

Peace be with you

I am new and my opinion too........
and my opinion is we do need Islam very badly now.......

 

[S Walch]

So your arguement for that is...where?

WHY Do we need Islam very badly now?

WHY!!

We want reasons - hence the titles thread "Is there a need for islam?"

 

[Bookofknowledge]

WHY Do we need Islam very badly now?

WHY!!

We want reasons - hence the titles thread "Is there a need for islam?"

14:21
When all people appear before Allah, those who were weak in the world will say to those who thought themselves mighty: "We were your followers. Now! Can you do anything to relieve us from the punishment of Allah?" They will reply: "Had Allah given us guidance, we would have guided you. Now it makes no difference whether we panic or bear it with patience, for there is no escape for us."

Look at the world today and research this verse from Qur'aan...

 

[ServantofTheOne]

...You obvioulsy don't understand that passage at all do you?

the "your neighbour" it is refering too is EVERY OTHER HUMAN BEING ON THE PLANET!!

not just your actual *neighbour*

So, it doesn't matter what race, colour, town, religion etc that a person comes from - you shall love EVERYBODY as yourself.

apparantly i didn't have the same interpretation as you did. can you elaborate on other references in catholic scripture and commentary that specifically addresses the relationship of humanity and race.

The references i gave on islam's view on the subject provides clear and comprehensive guidance on both individual and aggregate levels regarding race, human, and ethnic relations.

If catholicism offers "love your neighbor as yourself" as the only guidance, then we can continue on the next topic.

 

[Montalban]

apparantly i didn't have the same interpretation as you did. can you elaborate on other references in catholic scripture and commentary that specifically addresses the relationship of humanity and race.
The references i gave on islam's view on the subject provides clear and comprehensive guidance on both individual and aggregate levels regarding race, human, and ethnic relations.
If catholicism offers "love your neighbor as yourself" as the only guidance, then we can continue on the next topic.

The fact that Jesus Himself was asked "Who is my neighbour" leads you to the correct answer. He gave the parable of the Good Samaritan. He also modified the Jewish idea on revenge... which Muslims reverted to. The Jews had the 'eye for an eye' concept: Exodus 21:24; Lev. 24:20; Deut. 19:21. They also had the 'love thy neighbour' concept: Lev. 19:18 both of which Jesus touches upon in St. Matthew's Gospel.

Look at what He says in the Gospel of St. Matthew on the 'eye for an eye'.
Mat 5

38 “You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'

39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also



That is, He's completely over-turning the notion of revenge! Next, what does He say about 'neighbour'?

Mat 5

43 “You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbour and hate your enemy.'

44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Mark 12

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'

31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these.”
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.



Especially important is...

Luke 10

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered: “ 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, ”And who is my neighbour?”

....<parable of the Good Samaritan>

36 &#8221;Which of these three do you think was a neighbour to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?&#8221;
37 The expert in the law replied, &#8220;The one who had mercy on him.&#8221; Jesus told him, &#8220;Go and do likewise.&#8221;



He is not referring to a literal neighbour at all, but one who has concern for someone else.

It is why St. Paul said...

Romans 13

10 Love does no harm to its neighbour. Therefore love is the fulfilment of the law.

Galatians 5

14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: &#8220;Love your neighbour as yourself.&#8221;

And James said...

James 2

8 If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, &#8220;Love your neighbour as yourself,&#8221; you are doing right.

Note He says &#8220;you've heard this...&#8221; then &#8220;BUT I tell you...&#8221;. He's over-turning the rules of the past and preaching universal love.


In Islam it says you are to love your brother... this means someone co-religious.
There is no Koranic verse that I am aware of that says 'turn the other cheek'. As to 'love thy neighbour'...

Muhammad urges people to look after their brothers; by this he means other Muslims.


In the Hadith, Muhammad urges...

&#8220;Not one of you is a believer until he loves for his brother what he loves for himself.&#8221;

ISLAM: Forty Hadith of an-Nawawi

But the question would be 'who then is my brother'?

The next mention of the word 'brother' in that Hadith might give you a clue...

"Do not envy one another; do not inflate prices one to another; do not hate one another; do not turn away from one another; and do not undercut one another, but be you, O servants of Allah, brothers."

That is, a brother, is one who is a co-religionist. This is much more a restricted use then 'neighbour' is in the Judeo-Christian sense, where Jesus says ALL men are my brother, not just those that believe as I do.

Again, the next use of the word 'brother'
"Do not envy one another; do not inflate prices one to another; do not hate one another; do not turn away from one another; and do not undercut one another, but be you, O servants of Allah, brothers. A muslim is the brother of a muslim: he neither oppresses him nor does he fail him, he neither lies to him nor does he hold him in contempt. Piety is right here-and he pointed to his breast three times. It is evil enough for a man to hold his brother muslim in contempt. The whole of a muslim for another muslim is inviolable: his blood, his property, and his honor."
So, there is no universal in the sense that Jesus used, therefore I am correct in saying that the Muslims do not have the same sense of it.
All hadith quotes from http://mac.abc.se/home/onesr/ez/hdth/40h-naw_e.html

 

[S Walch]

Exactly.

Nothing but Love, love love love.

Jesus was all for the love wasn't he?