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Is the thousand years of Revelation chapter 20 symbolic?

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BABerean2

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Revelation 11:15-18 speaks for itself for those who do not need to ignore it to make their doctrine work. Anyone who can read sees it is "the time of the judgment of the dead", shortly after the seventh trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.


Who is the king of the angels of the bottomless pit?
Do you think Satan is going to let one of the other angels be king over him?


Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.


.
 
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DavidPT

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The thing that seals it for me, besides what you brought up here, which I fully agree with, is this. Every single place in the Bible where a cardinal number is followed by years, the amount of years specified are literally meaning those amount of years. One cannot find one example in the OT nor the NT where this is not true. This is the pattern throughout the Bible. If a thousand is also a cardinal number, it only stands to reason that the same has to be true for it as well when it too is followed by years. So unless someone can prove chiliás is not a cardinal number, this same pattern has to apply to it when followed by years.

When Premils and Amils debate these things, what do Amils typically like to bring up? Cattle on a thousand hills, for one. But what do hills have to do with years? Per the former, the point is that God doesn't just own cattle on only 1000 hills, he owns cattle on all hills. That can't be compared with a thousand years. A thousand years can never mean all years. It only means a certain amount of years. Even if it wasn't literally meaning a thousand, but was meaning more than a thousand, it still would not be meaning all years. Maybe they are trying to prove a thousand doesn't literally mean a thousand every time? But who is even disputing that? I know I'm not. Yet Amils seem to be disputing that a thousand can also literally mean a thousand as well.
 
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Zao is life

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I agree. What you say is logical, but logic is discarded when the plain meaning in the Bible needs to be changed to bring it in line with whatever Amills believe it should be saying.
 
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DavidPT

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The first thing to note, as to the king of the pit. The text does not state that the king of the pit has been in the pit until someone opens it. It also does not state that it was not in the pit while it was shut. We have no way of knowing either way. It is only being assumed by you that the king has been in the pit while it was closed, because you assume this king is meaning satan, and that you are assuming this is meaning after he has been bound a thousand years. But anyone reading the text sees that it's locusts being released from the pit, not satan. And what are these locusts released to do? Something that satan would want them to do? No, something God would want them to do, and this is, torment the men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads, IOW torment followers of satan.
 
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Zao is life

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The judgment of the dead which takes place in Revelation chapter 11 does not mean there will be no mortal survivors going into the one thousand years revealed by Jesus to His churches.

It also does not mean it's the final judgment of the dead - because Revelation 11 speaks of the judgment of the dead at the time the beast and false prophet are defeated and the martyred saints rise from the dead, which comes at the parousia of Christ; and the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire - but Revelation 20 speaks of another judgment of the dead which occurs after Satan has been cast into the lake of fire, death and hades deliver ALL the dead in them, and the books are opened; and when Satan has been cast into the lake of fire, the beast and false prophet are already there (I'm talking about what's written in the Revelation, not what you want to be written in it or what you want it to be saying).

Revelation 11 closes by talking about the kingdoms of this world becoming the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ when the seventh trumpet sounds, the judgment of the dead and the resurrection of the martyred saints; but Revelation 20 closes by talking about the final judgment of the dead after a final rebellion and after Satan has been cast into the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet already are (because they were cast into the lake of fire a thousand years earlier).

Just because you insist the Revelation has to fit your Amill theory, does not mean it does. The truth is, it does not fit your A-mill theory because if it did, the beast and false prophet would be cast into the lake of fire at the same time as Satan.

That's aside from the facts that the Greek word in Revelation 20 for a thousand years means one thousand years only, and the entire New Testament outside Revelation 20 does not speak of Satan being bound before the parousia of Christ. When are you going to address the OP in this thread?
 
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parousia70

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the entire New Testament outside Revelation 20 does not speak of Satan being bound before the parousia of Christ.

Then How did Jesus accomplish this feat without Binding Satan FIRST??:
Matthew 12:28-29
If I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you...how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.
(Jesus here absolutely claims to have bound Satan and plundered his house while He walked the earth, which is undeniably PRIOR to His Parousia)

Satan was cast out, judged, spoiled and bound by Jesus Christ:

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

1 John 3:8
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;
that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil.

Colossians 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

John 16:8,11
And when [the Holy Spirit] is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:...of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged

1 Peter 3:22
Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Acts 26:17-18
To the nations I now send you to open their eyes to turn them from darkness to light and from the power of satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them who are sanctified by faith that is in me.

As for The Accuser, Who shall bring a charge against God's elect?

Romans 8:31-34
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

1 John 5:18
he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Satan is defeated to Christ and his Church. In fact, this was the very purpose of Christ's ministry (see 1 John 3:8; Hebrews 2:14-15; John 12:31; Col 2:15; Matthew 16:18-19; Matthew 28:18-19, etc), yet many today, including you, seem to deny that Christ was successful.

It certainly is true that those outside the Kingdom of God are bound in chains of sin and darkness and are the "sons of satan" (as was Cain and as were the rulers of Israel Jesus spoke against in John 8:44) -- but look at how bound and powerless satan is to all the Sons of God (Acts 26:17-18; Matthew 12:28-29; Luke 10:19; Mark 16:17, etc). Jesus said the time for the satan to have been cast out was back in HIS time (John 12:31).

So we must not UNDO the work of Christ in this matter by a retroactive faith that places us back in time as if we are a people living PRIOR to Christ's victory over satan. What a travesty it is, IMHO, to see how the eschatological doctrine of futurism is always robbing Christ of his power and completed work. It is not even uncommon to hear Christians say nearly blasphemous statements that satan is the god of this world, as if that means Christ is not Lord over him and indeed over all things (Matthew 28:18-19; 1 Peter 3:22; Eph 1:20-21; Rev 1:5; )

Finally, satan is most certainly NOT accusing any of the brothers any more. His ministry as the O.T. accuser of the saints came to an end when Christ stripped him of all authority and granted righteousness by faith to all the saints. Revelation 12:10-11 tells how the blood of the Lamb has granted this victory, and is tied to Paul's teaching in Romans:

Rom 8:30-31,33
Whom he foreordained, them he also called. Whom he called, them he also justified. Whom he justified, them he also glorified. What then will we say about these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?... Who could bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, yes rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

This passage shows how satan's O.T. role as accuser of the brethren (see Job 1 and 2; Rev 12:10-11) is now over. He simply can make no accusation, for the Judge has fully pardoned all his people and based upon the blood of His Sacrificial Lamb, Jesus.

Amazing Love and Victory!
 
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Timtofly

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Please define "the Lord's day."
Genesis 2:4-5 is the first mention.

On the day when Adonai, God, made earth and heaven, 5 there was as yet no wild bush on the earth, and no wild plant had as yet sprung up; for Adonai, God, had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no one to cultivate the ground.
 
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Zao is life

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Overcome, overpowered and defeated are not the same thing as bound. You are implying by your argument that Jesus bound Satan, and had to bind Satan over and over again each time he cast out demons or healed the sick or raised the dead. You are implying also that when the apostles cast out demons, they were binding Satan over and over again.

In any case, in the Revelation you do not see the binding of Satan before the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ - your so-called "binding" took place a lot earlier than that, and was Satan being overcome or overpowered. He was not even defeated yet because his defeat took place at the cross, as per Revelation 12, and though defeated, he has not yet been bound and placed in the bottomless pit so that he is unable to deceive the nations.
 
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parousia70

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Defeated is a lesser state than "bound"?
really?

Satan is only bound for Christ and those in Christ. He is never Bound for or by the unrepentant, nor will he ever be.

Contrary to what seems to be being argued here, The unrepentant will NEVER share in Christ's victory over satan.

That said, in the Matthew 12:28-29 passage, Did Jesus claim to have "Bound the strong man", or not?

Here it is again:

If I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you...how can anyone enter the strong man's house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.
 
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Zao is life

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In any case, in the Revelation you do not see the binding of Satan before the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ - your so-called "binding" took place a lot earlier than that, and it was a matter of Satan being overcome or overpowered. He was not even defeated yet because his defeat took place at the cross, as per Revelation 12.

So your thesis fails yet again.
 
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friend of

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Satan is only bound for Christ and those in Christ. He is never Bound for or by the unrepentant, nor will he ever be.

Thats not true. Satan attacks believers all the time
 
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Zao is life

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DavidPT's post #84 answers your post. I've given the same answer to you or someone else in this same thread.
 
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BABerean2

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Is Satan one of the angels that sinned?
Were those angels chained in some manner in the verse below?

2Pe_2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Does Christ give His followers power over the enemy?

Luk 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


Do you deny that Satan is the king of the angels of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:11?

Do you deny that some angels are already bound in Revelation 9:14?


Do you believe Christ will be conducting funeral services for 1000 years after His Second Coming?


.
 
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Zao is life

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Thats not true. Satan attacks believers all the time
He also attempts to beguile the church of Jesus Christ all the time too, just as he beguiled Eve in the garden.

Eve was the prototype of the bride, Adam of the groom. Our groom is Christ and cannot be beguiled by Satan - but the bride can.
 
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chad kincham

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Of course satan is not currently bound - he’s busy being god of this world, and looking for whom he may devour - his reign ends only when Jesus returns.
 
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Zao is life

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No 2 Peter 2:4 is very clearly (very clearly) speaking of angels who were bound at a time which was already ancient history to the apostle Peter's day. They are not the same angels that were cast down to earth with Satan when he was cast out of heaven and down to the earth.
Does Christ give His followers power over the enemy?
The power to overpower or overcome, but it's not the same as binding.

Check for yourself if the Revelation speaks of the binding of Satan at any time before the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ.
I
Do you deny that Satan is the king of the angels of the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:11?

Do you deny that some angels are already bound in Revelation 9:14?
You've already asked those questions in a long, long, long post earlier in this thread and I've already answered each one of your many questions in the long, long, long post you placed.

READ what you have already asked in a thread and what has already been replied to you before you ask the same dumb questions again (yes- DUMB - because when you ask a question and receive a reply to it, and then you ask the same question again, then you are playing whatever children's game you invented along the way).

Answer the questions I've already asked you which you have avoided replying to, and speak on the facts in the OP of this thread, because if you don't do both, I will ignore your posts also. I thought we made a deal in this thread after your first post.
 
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Zao is life

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Of course satan is not currently bound - he’s busy being god of this world, and looking for whom he may devour - his reign ends only when Jesus returns.
Some Amills, I see, even attempt to use the fact that Satan was overpowered by both Christ and His apostles when demons were being cast out by them, as "support" for their theory that Satan is bound - but the poor fellas forget that the Revelation doesn't even speak about the binding of Satan as something which occurs at any time before the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ.

They confuse themselves in their desperate attempts to find scriptural support for something they have absolutely zero scriptural support for.
 
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chad kincham

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I could be wrong but I have always taken it to be literal. Kinda like the 7 day week , 6 days work 7th day rest.
Somewhere Jesus had said , "They shall not enter my rest" , Which I have always assumed is the one thousand years.

Barnabus taught in his epistle, that the early church believed in the sabbath-millennium doctrine, that God took six days to create the world and rested on the 7th day, as a prophetical timeline of their being six thousand years - or days - between Adam and the second coming of Jesus, with the millennium being the 7th day, aka Gods rest for His people, spoken of in Hebrews 4.
 
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chad kincham

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agreed

Mankind will not be enjoying an earthly 1000 year period of time on Earth following the second coming.

Scripture states Jesus will return physically to earth, the same way He left, and to the same place He left from - the mount of Olives.

He will split it in two, then destroy all the nations armies that are attacking Jerusalem.

He will rule the nations with a rod of Iron, and believers will reign and rule with Him, on the earth.

However long you wish to claim the time period will be after His second coming, it’s crystal clear, that the above events haven’t happened yet.
 
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BABerean2

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There is nothing in the Bible which proves what you are claiming above.
Do you think Satan now lives in heaven with God, and Christ?


Do you think Satan was in heaven after Genesis chapter 3?


The protoevangelium is found below in verse 15.
God promised Satan the seed of the woman would destroy him.

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

.
 
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