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Featured Is the posttrib position correct?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by YeshuaRedeemed, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    More like, just to keep short accounts with and stay as close as possible to God. Train to be sensitive to the Spirit. Even Foxe's Book of Martyrs showed a silver lining of how God was present during times of persecution. (We will need to look for Him.)

    "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Romans 12:1-2 NKJV
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  2. Guojing

    Guojing Member

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    I am a pre trib rapture, so I also don't agree that the church need to go thru the trib. Paul also made it clear that the church is saved from wrath.
     
  3. Danielwright2311

    Danielwright2311 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The doctrine of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture ("catching away") of true Christians prior to the appearance of the Antichrist and his reign of tribulation terror over the earth is not biblical.

    What's more, the doctrine not only offers false hope, it is a devastating doctrine.

    Historically, this is a relatively new doctrine. There is evidence that it emerged in Scotland in 1830, when a woman named Mary MacDonald received a "revelation" that the Church would not go through the end-time Tribulation.

    Others attribute the Rapture doctrine to Edward Irving, leading figure in forming the Catholic Apostolic Church in England in the 1830s, MacDonald's time frame. Just who heard this "truth" from Whom or whom may not be clear, but its fire was ignited and spread in the early 19th century.

    http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/hayom/pretrib-rapture.html
     
  4. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Maybe, but you are the one who proposed that Post-Trib Rapture requires those who have "died in Christ" to be resurrected so that they can share in the Tribulation [post #30]. That is absurd.

    I have never heard that proposed anywhere else, by anyone else. As a Post-Tribber, I do not subscribe to that (or need to).
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  5. Guojing

    Guojing Member

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    I started that post with an "if". =)

    So you don't think its arbitrary that one "unfortunate" group of Christians who happen to be alive during the Great Tribulation will have to go thru it, while those who have already passed on are safe?

    What do you think the objective of God is in having that group of people go thru the Trib?
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you reconsider, Jesus said when "you see" in the second person plural, these things, leave town, in so many words. He spoke to the disciples. Not to future generations.
     
  7. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Does God owe Job or martyrs from other ages an explanation, too?
     
  8. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    The great tribulation is our life here on earth...we all go through it and in doing so prove out our faith.
     
  9. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    that is great and that is the application that those who believe in pre trib are taking. Some think that pr trib will fall for the antichrist which is pretty weak as the pretrib expect the man of sin to be revealed and will be the one saying peace and safety and come with lying signs and wonder and he will also confirm a covenant with the many for one week. We will recognize the beast when he shows up and eat humble pie if we are wrong. The ones who won't get it are those perhaps who do not believe these events are future.
     
  10. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Much of why people developed the pre-tribulation rapture is based on fear. They have mistakenly, and innocently I believe, made one event out of the tribulation and the wrath of God. The very first time I timidly suggested that we would be here through the tribulation, a pastor told me, "but we aren't appointed to God's wrath." Even then, years ago, I had the same response I have now... "Neither was Noach and Lot, and neither of them were removed from the Earth, they were protected." But I digress a little... the tribulation is a time of trouble, yes.. but also a time when the people of God have a common foe and they will rally around each other and God during this time. Yeshua isn't going to come and rapture a bride that is broken up into 30,000 +/- divisions and considered that "unblemished." He will return for one unified bride... and then set up His Kingdom. So... are we even taken off the Earth... or is our rapture more like Philip's when he was with the Eunich? That was a rapture, that same word (harpazo) used in Paul's writings was used for Phillip but he wasn't caught away vertically... he was caught away horizontally. What if... just asking... what if... we are "raptured" horizontally to a staging ground and then take part in the last few verses of Isaiah 11? That hasn't happened yet... and it has because NO prophecy of God will go unfulfilled.
     
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  11. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    I see the Rapture as meeting Him in order to fall into ranks behind Him as He is descending to fulfill Daniel 2:44 & Acts of the Apostles 1:10-11. :clap:
     
  12. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And you could be right. :) The thing with prophecy is that it is filled with symbolism and imagery that leaves it open to interpretation. Those that say, "here is how it will happen" beyond the obvious stuff (like a return of messiah, eternal life) have no clue. There is probably a far better chance that we ALL are wrong, then there is one person who has it all correct. :)
     
  13. Guojing

    Guojing Member

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    Okay in that case, I would rather believe the church is saved from wrath then.
     
  14. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ken I agree that there will be error in every camp as when Jesus came the 1st time he opened the scriptures and showed the two disciples on the road all passages written about how the Christ needed to suffer and die and be raised from the dead. So to at the 2nd coming we will all have had some missing pieces or mistakes in our ideas. The thing is though that God is not so cryptic that a basic idea of what is going to happen and a chronology of events cannot be determined. If you cut and paste all the relevant unfullfilled prophecy and look at it like a jigsaw puzzle you can see edge pieces and Israel pieces and in the center is a mid point where the abomination of desolation happens in a 3rd temple. From that point on its 42 months to the 2nd coming of Jesus with His saints. There is far less written about when we are gathered than what happens in the day and the things accomplished in that day.
     
  15. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good post Brian. Do you know what the most repeated prophecy is? I was going to go on and just answer it and make my point, but I think I will wait for you to reply. I might be a little bit, I am in and out of work.

    Blessings.
    Ken
     
  16. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    interesting question i would hope for multiple choice on this one. I know many themes are oft repeated but have no clue.
     
  17. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints! Supporter

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  18. Brian Mcnamee

    Brian Mcnamee Well-Known Member

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    if that is what he is talking about most repeated by people instead of most repeated in scripture Id say it would be no man knows the day or hour.
     
  19. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

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    I just wanted to thank you for this post and its wisdom. I also wanted to mention that it warmed my heart to hear you mention Keith Green. He was a huge influence on my Christian path, and I cried the day he died.

    Lord, give us 100 more like him, and wake us up from our going-thru-the-motions Christianity.

    Were you familiar with Leonard Ravenhill? He was A huge influence on Keith.

    blessings to you,

    Gideon
     
  20. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    And you have just clearly articulated one of the many problems with the futurist theory.

    Namely the erroneous notion that Paul's Man of Sin and John's antichrist are the same individual.

    Scripture nowhere teaches this, yet futurists nearly always regurgitate it as if it were scriptural fact, in total absence of any scriptural instruction to do so. (Just as you have done here)

    They hang their hat squarely on man mad tradition alone for this.

    So Jesus and the apostles go the timing wrong?
    is that your contention?

    Futurists constantly refuse to take massive amounts of scripture seriously when it goes against their pet paradigm.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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