Is the mark of the beast going to be about the papacy changing the day of the Sabbath?

[BrotherD]

"All" scripture, God did not say "only" Scripture. People interpret Scripture quite differently.

When matters of differences arise whom do you say we go to in order to clear up any confusion?

 

[fhansen]

The old testament was the only guide of truth for the Bereans when testing to see if what Paul was speaking was true. The errors of the early church came in after the apostles died. This is why Sunday crept in but it has never been about God but that of sun worship.

Alright, and show me, please, where sun worship or any of its teachings have ever even remotely been taught by the big bad CC. And if error immediately crept in explain how they managed to assemble the new testament canon a few centuries after Christ, weeding out lots of erroneous writings contending for the privilege? And why, after Constantine participated in making all religions including Christianity, which he favored, legitimate, the bishops of the Church ruled against his own pet Arian belief at Nicaea? Then two centuries later it met at Orange and produced probably the most beautiful and edifying statement on grace that I've read-which you should read instead of the pop-mythology and half-truths you rely on to "understand" Catholicism. And, according to your beliefs, the RCC failed at observing one commandment correctly while continuing to insist that all the others be obeyed strictly, while many Protestants with antinomian tendencies reject that obligation out of hand, more so in modern times. Why not throw all the the commandments out the door if the intent is to get rid of the law and replace it with...whatever you think you've discovered?

And then tell me why the CC produced huge numbers of people who've fed the hungry and clothed the naked, volunteering untold volumes of time and money, virtually placing altruism on the map with the gospel ideals taught by the Church. The church gave light and hope and the concept of order and goodness and love as foundational to the universe to a lost and dying world that was more inclined to darkness and chaos and vanquishing one's enemy rather than loving him in those ancient times, very different from our own even if we seem to be sliding backwards nowadays. Knowledge was preserved by monasteries through the dark ages and later the church would develop schools and the university system. Arts and science and the pursuit of excellence in general were promoted while hospitals and orphanages were built. And today the church continues to be one of the last official bastions opposing abortion and other increasingly accepted trends towards immorality.

But let's ignore all that and look for real or imagined skeletons in the Catholic closet-even if the closet is more or less open for all to see anyway. Yes, some members of the church, including some leaders, have behaved badly, as church doctrine virtually guarantees that humans will do, incidentally. They didn't always heed the teachings of their own church IOW. What else is new about that? But the teachings, themselves, have remained without error IMO, in spite of weak and limited and often sinful humans, which is what we require- and would expect of God. And those teachings are the main treasure of the church.

The main reason for anti-Catholicism, truth be told, is human priggishness, our failure to truly recognize our own failings as humans as we seek to demonstrate our holiness- as opposed to those people. I've participated in that activity myself.

 

[Glorytothefather2245]

Vicarius Filii Dei ..the substitution of the Son of God? The nerve of the papacy to give this title to the pope.

They used their authority to change God's Holy Day to the first day of the week? Who thought this was a good idea?

Saturday is God's Devine signature of Creation. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible we can modify the Ten Commandments.

Isaiah 58:13
If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words, B3 14 then you shall delight yourself in the LORD;

The papacy that started in Rome did not have Peter sitting in the seat. Anyone can claim Peter as the first of their own organization. It's just another trick.

The little horn on the first beast ends up being the papacy.

The mark of the beast has 4 four aspects to it, you got the forehead, the right hand, his name, and his number.

Sabbath observence would fall under forehead in my opinion. But let me explain. I don't believe that Sabbath keeping alone determines if your saved or not, but i do believe that in the endtimes Satan will enforce a false Sabbath observance on Sunday. Sunday worship alone cannot be the mark of the beast because the Sabbath is based on a day of rest and the apostles and the early Church and Jesus kept that day. But i hear from alot of people that people got together on sunday in the Bible to. I believe that Satan will enforce his false Sabbath on sunday and it will be a mock of Gods true sabbath which is saturday and it will be based off climate change and worshipping the earth and other fake Gods. The seventh day adventist will plainly tell you sunday worship is the mark of the beast, but i don't think God will make it that easy to take the mark like that. You will have to choose to take your day of rest on Gods saturday or Satans sunday. God said his Sabbath is a covenant between him and his people. There is no clear indication that Sabbath has been done away with and that its only for the jews. It was given to the jews. But you also have to remember that was before Christ came, so it was before the covenant was given to the gentiles. Once we get saved and grafted into Gods new covenant we become part of Israel thru Christ. Christ true church in the endtimes is the one that keeps all his commandments.

Gentiles Grafted in: Romans 11:11-31 KJV
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Again this is my observation but all we can do is pray for God to show us truth and keep us on the narrow path.

 

[klutedavid]

lol the EOC and the RCC were part of the original church. They both split. The EOC didn’t come out of the RCC. How can the EOC be a daughter of the RCC if it was born at the same time as the RCC?
Man, the SDA...

They do not know church history.

 

[klutedavid]

But Christ's resurrection is the reason why we worship on Sunday.

Very good post. Jesus is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and end of everything that is the Christian faith.

Colossians 2:6-7
Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

The commandments are as follows.

1 John 2:3
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

 

[BrotherD]

Alright, and show me, please, where sun worship or any of its teachings have ever even remotely been taught by the big bad CC. And if error immediately crept in explain how they managed to assemble the new testament canon a few centuries after Christ, weeding out lots of erroneous writings contending for the privilege? And why, after Constantine participated in making all religions including Christianity, which he favored, legitimate, the bishops of the Church ruled against his own pet Arian belief at Nicaea? Then two centuries later it met at Orange and produced probably the most beautiful and edifying statement on grace that I've read-which you should read instead of the pop-mythology and half-truths you rely on to "understand" Catholicism. And, according to your beliefs, the RCC failed at observing one commandment correctly while continuing to insist that all the others be obeyed strictly, while many Protestants with antinomian tendencies reject that obligation out of hand, more so in modern times. Why not throw all the the commandments out the door if the intent is to get rid of the law and replace it with...whatever you think you've discovered?

And then tell me why the CC produced huge numbers of people who've fed the hungry and clothed the naked, volunteering untold volumes of time and money, virtually placing altruism on the map with the gospel ideals taught by the Church. The church gave light and hope and the concept of order and goodness and love as foundational to the universe to a lost and dying world that was more inclined to darkness and chaos and vanquishing one's enemy rather than loving him in those ancient times, very different from our own even if we seem to be sliding backwards nowadays. Knowledge was preserved by monasteries through the dark ages and later the church would develop schools and the university system. Arts and science and the pursuit of excellence in general were promoted while hospitals and orphanages were built. And today the church continues to be one of the last official bastions opposing abortion and other increasingly accepted trends towards immorality.

But let's ignore all that and look for real or imagined skeletons in the Catholic closet-even if the closet is more or less open for all to see anyway. Yes, some members of the church, including some leaders, have behaved badly, as church doctrine virtually guarantees that humans will do, incidentally. They didn't always heed the teachings of their own church IOW. What else is new about that? But the teachings, themselves, have remained without error IMO, in spite of weak and limited and often sinful humans, which is what we require- and would expect of God. And those teachings are the main treasure of the church.

The main reason for anti-Catholicism, truth be told, is human priggishness, our failure to truly recognize our own failings as humans as we seek to demonstrate our holiness- as opposed to those people. I've participated in that activity myself.

You asked a lot. I have read from numerous sources on what the Catholic Church organization is and what all they follow. God mentions their reign in the scriptures at least 6 times. They were to rule for a time, times and half a times, 1260 days, and 42 months. Almost everything they teach is in error and one can only use the bible to point each one out.

*There are honest people in the church who serve God wholeheartedly with the light that they have. There are many good people within the church and they are honest, BUT the leaders know full well what they are doing*

Time will tell who is right. I am not against you or anyone else here. I delight in the truth and that is the only thing that will free us. Always remember force is the last resort of any false religion.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Is anyone going to question the pope if he starts performing great signs? Or attempts to create an umbrella of all religions?

 

[Lost4words]

Is anyone going to question the pope if he starts performing great signs? Or attempts to create an umbrella of all religions?

Check out Catholic news for answers.

 

[Valletta]

You asked a lot. I have read from numerous sources on what the Catholic Church organization is and what all they follow. God mentions their reign in the scriptures at least 6 times. They were to rule for a time, times and half a times, 1260 days, and 42 months. Almost everything they teach is in error and one can only use the bible to point each one out.

*There are honest people in the church who serve God wholeheartedly with the light that they have. There are many good people within the church and they are honest, BUT the leaders know full well what they are doing*

Time will tell who is right. I am not against you or anyone else here. I delight in the truth and that is the only thing that will free us. Always remember force is the last resort of any false religion.

How easy it is to demonize those who disagree with your personal beliefs. There is a lot of hatred out there, and I am sad you were taught such horrible things. Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I bet there are little if any quotations from the Catechism in the material you read. In that way they can misrepresent the teachings from the start. How many of them are brave enough to post such a document detailing the beliefs of their own religion?

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

 

[Lost4words]

How easy it is to demonize those who disagree with your personal beliefs. There is a lot of hatred out there, and I am sad you were taught such horrible things. Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I bet there are little if any quotations from the Catechism in the material you read. In that way they can misrepresent the teachings from the start. How many of them are brave enough to post such a document detailing the beliefs of their own religion?

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

Very true indeed

 

[BrotherD]

How easy it is to demonize those who disagree with your personal beliefs. There is a lot of hatred out there, and I am sad you were taught such horrible things. Have you ever read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? I bet there are little if any quotations from the Catechism in the material you read. In that way they can misrepresent the teachings from the start. How many of them are brave enough to post such a document detailing the beliefs of their own religion?

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

No such hated in my heart. I do not hate any man, God forbid that to be so. God is love and we are to be a reflection of that love. I am not the only one who can see what the church has done and still do. Many protestant churches are in the same boat as the Catholic church.

Sometimes telling the truth is considered hate speech. I will only speak the truth according to the word of God and will not deviate from it. I am a fallible man and i lean onto my God for all my understanding.

As stated before, time will tell who is on who's side. May we all find ourselves on the Lord's side.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Vicarius Filii Dei ..the substitution of the Son of God? The nerve of the papacy to give this title to the pope.

They used their authority to change God's Holy Day to the first day of the week? Who thought this was a good idea?

Saturday is God's Devine signature of Creation. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible we can modify the Ten Commandments.

Isaiah 58:13
If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the LORD honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words, B3 14 then you shall delight yourself in the LORD;

The papacy that started in Rome did not have Peter sitting in the seat. Anyone can claim Peter as the first of their own organization. It's just another trick.

The little horn on the first beast ends up being the papacy.

There's actually a prophecy about a guy who will "change the times" so this is how I understand your question. "Is the mark of the beast about the pope changing the sabbath day?"

The answer is no, changing the day of the sabbath has nothing to do with being able to buy and sell.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

It will, Blue laws are already in place.

 

[fhansen]

You asked a lot. I have read from numerous sources on what the Catholic Church organization is and what all they follow. God mentions their reign in the scriptures at least 6 times. They were to rule for a time, times and half a times, 1260 days, and 42 months. Almost everything they teach is in error and one can only use the bible to point each one out.

Ok. IMO you've just been eating what you've been fed-and can possibly do better with other fare available.

You *There are honest people in the church who serve God wholeheartedly with the light that they have. There are many good people within the church and they are honest, BUT the leaders know full well what they are doing*

No, the leaders have mainly been honest as well-with a handful of scoundrels here and there down though the centuries. It took me time to figure that out tho.

Time will tell who is right. I am not against you or anyone else here. I delight in the truth and that is the only thing that will free us. Always remember force is the last resort of any false religion.

That's good-delighting in the truth is one of our greatest assets. Augustine once said, "All truth is God's truth". And simple as that may sound, it's quite profound-and points to the fact that we should never be afraid of truth, truth is always good wherever we may find it, including the "uncomfortable truth" that we'll encounter at times.

Anyway, as a Protestant I read a fair amount of anti-JW material, and while I assumed most of it was probably true I had a few JW friends I was impressed with for certain qualities they had. We'd go round and round with Scripture and, knowing they were at least quite sincere I decided I'd look into their own material to see if it contained any truth that could possibly challenge my positions. Why not? Truth is truth. They likewise calculated certain dates based on Scripture, mainly to arrive at the time of Jesus' second advent. And, of course, they rejected the doctrine of the Trinity, using plausible enough arguments from Scripture for the most part I might add. And they had their own particular method of setting themselves apart from “Christendom” as the real bearers of truth, which had to do with being a people exclusively set apart to the name of God, “Jehovah”, as they had determined. And they were also decidedly anti-Catholic, which didn’t particularly bother me at the time since I was as well to a large extent.

Anyway, I studied three points of theirs taking an honest stab at understanding according to their beliefs. One was on the “name”. But pouring over Scripture in light of their arguments I just couldn’t come up with any kind of reason for believing as they do. The dating game was particularly absurd, finding no reason to arrive at the results they did without putting a lot of wishful thinking into the mix. I can’t remember the third item I researched but in any case I was almost disappointed in not being able to find some real rationale in what they used to make their determinations.

SDAs as I understand have a common root with the JWs in their 19th century beginnings, and both were heavily obsessed with the end-times as being quite imminent. SDA’s, however, distinguished themselves primarily with their emphasis on 7th day, sabbath, rest and worship.

Anyway, whether right or wrong, in the interest of truth-and perhaps talking points- I’d recommend at least looking a little bit into Catholic literature for oneself, “apostate literature” as the JWs called anything not originating from their own ranks. Nothing to lose-only takes a little courage. I've lately suggested the canons of the 2nd Council of Orange because there we find Catholic thought on certain teachings some 500+ years after our Lord. It’s best to overlook the “anathemas” which was just the language of the day with the purpose of shunning opposers of truth, in this case supporters of Pelagianism as the council worked out a pretty amazing teaching on the doctrine of grace. If you do look into that council, make sure you read the "Conclusions" at the end.
The Canons of the Second Council of Orange (529)

 

[fhansen]

If the mark of the beast is changing the sabbath to sunday, then only the SDA cult is saved lol

Ah, but they're trying desperately to save you, too!

 

[Jipsah]

Your origin is from the RCC as are most protestant denominations thus you are one of the daughters of the harlot in revelation.

Drat!

 

[Jipsah]

Matthew 7:13-14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So that translates to mean that everyone is going to hell but y'all, right?

Nah, ain't buying it.

 

[Jipsah]

Is anyone going to question the pope if he starts performing great signs? Or attempts to create an umbrella of all religions?

What if he hands out free doughnuts to everyone, and turns out to be a space alien?

 

[Jipsah]

It will, Blue laws are already in place.

maybe a 10th as many as there were when I was young, and getting fewer all the time. And all of them were local. YOu need to let reality intrude from time to time.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

maybe a 10th as many as there were when I was young, and getting fewer all the time. And all of them were local. YOu need to let reality intrude from time to time.

Issue is blue laws have been deemed constitutional by the US supreme court

See post #43

Thus any government agency can institute them over night, every heard of a Executive order