Is the Great Tribulation impending ?

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[stephen583]

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,

By focusing on a "physical" explanation of what is described, you are asking us to "ignore" a ton of biblical evidence concerning the "symbolic" meaning of these words in the Scripture, especially with regard to the Old Testament. If I have to list every chapter and verse in the Old Testament where the "Sun Being Darkened" is used metaphorically to describe God turning his face away from mankind, because of violence and idolatry, this post is indeed going to get very, very long.

In Bible symbolism, the moon is frequently referred to as a metaphor for "lesser spiritual beliefs". In my opinion beliefs like Islam, Buddhism, Taoism and a number of other Eastern, and primitive religions, fall into this category described as "lesser spiritual beliefs" when compared to the Judeo Christian religion.

Unless you can present some pretty irrefutable proof of a physical manifestation of this prophecy, I'm going to remain very much inclined, and will have to go with a symbolic translation instead.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[stephen583]

"Chinese Foreign Minister "Wang Yi" warns U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry the deployment of the Terminal High Altitude Area Missile Defense (THAD) System in South Korea represents a "serious threat" to China's "security interests" in the region. (MSNBC, Associated Press, February 13, 2016).

Let me translate that statement by Wang Yi for those of you who don't speak CHINESE. What Wang is saying, is that he wants China's missiles to be able to hit TAIWAN, THE U.S. FORCES AND THEIR BASES IN AFGHANISTAN and SOUTH KOREA without any "INTERFERENCE" from any STINKING U.S. (THAD) Missile Defense System. (end of translation).

 

[Dave Watchman]

Since Jesus comes back with the dead in Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus."

I guess that it depends on the perspective of the reader or the author. Do you think "God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus" might mean that Jesus brings them with us who remain and are alive back to the place that He has prepared for us? Is Paul just reminding the living that their lost loved ones will not be forgotten?

"I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also"

It sounds like He will come again, take us all and bring us to His Father's House.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Daniel 10:21 //KJV
"But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth..."
11:2
"And now will I shew...."
////The holy being had been coming to Daniel over and over again in verses 10:11 thru 10:18 in
different forms so that Daniel could finally be strengthened to talk to him. This being had told him that
he had come to make him understand what shall befall his people in the latter days -the vision.

Daniel does not see a new vision, but the holy being is referring to the one shown to him in chapter 10
but Daniel hadn't given us the details of it.

Daniel 10:14
"....what shall befall thy people...for yet the vision..."

Daniel 11:14
And in those times...to establish the vision..."

The wheat and tares event happens at the end of the world. The living people will be
divided up. Matthew 25 tells of the same time only it uses sheep and goats for the wheat
and tares scenario.

Matthew 13:40 "...the end of this world."
13:41
"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom
all things that offend..."

His kingdom
This means that the 7th trumpet sounded before this time, as that is when the kingdoms of this world becomes Christ's. This trumpet is also the time of the saints gaining salvation; for this is when He appears.

We need to look at the wheat and tare time as being a bit ahead of the new heaven and
new earth. The tares people will be taken to be burned. Clear till Rev. 20 there has yet to
be anyone put into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25 shows that the goats will be lashed and taken to be burned-into everlasting fire.

Matthew 24:35
"Heaven and earth shall pass away..."

v36
""...that day..."
So here is the timing for chapter 25-the new heaven and new earth are about to
come.

Hebrews 9:28//KJV
"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him
shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

So then didn't the great tribulation end before the 7th seal was opened?
You tell me that those in white robes with palms in their hands came from the time of
the great tribulation. Where is the dragon, beast, little horn mouth, etc. then in chapter 7?
It is all there. Look at how the end of Rev. 11 will not work with the start of chapter 12.
Rev. 11 ends as being actually the link to Rev. 16:1.
Chapter 12, 13, all moves to where John saw it happen- chapter 7.
John had to jumble things - as they were not for his day.

12:1 - ///a wonder//sign in heaven
woman
dragon - another wonder///sign
chapter 13 - now refers to - the dragon
a beast
the beast

If we watch John's grammar it will give us the clues to put the verses where John saw them
unfold.
Rev. 15:1 - another sign in heaven - seven angels
Rev. 8:2 - the seven angels

Chapter 15 has our needed link that will land us back in chapter 7.
It is the reason that the sealing angels come from the east.

Revelation 15:1 refers to the seven last plagues.
This will be the final set.
The trumpets and the vials do not happen together.

The trumpets lead up to the wrath of God begins, while the vials start after the
wrath of God begins.

Revelation 15 shows more than one set of seven plagues. Only the set that John saw when the seven angels left the temple in heaven has to be over before men
can enter into the temple.
Rev. 7 leads up to the time of men are seen in the temple in heaven.

The stars also fall after the great tribulation has ended. This is an event that John saw during the 6th seal.
Daniel 10 ends referring to how Daniel would be shown the scripture of truth. The reason for this links back to a vision shown in chapter 10 that will come upon Daniel's people in
the latter days. Daniel 11 mentions a vision when it comes to verse 14. Just before this part is the split off to the end times. = after certain years - or in some- in the end of years

This does not mean that the end times is over, but that the wars between the king of the
north and the king of the south will be winding down. Their battle will begin again -after certain years and then continue off on till almost the end of chapter 11. Some place this as
the time of Antiochus III, but his life events will not line up with Scripture. After this, other
prophecy events with also not match up with history yet.

the king - not a new king
Daniel 11:36 does not show how a king passed, nor a new king coming into the story.

the king shall do according to his own will

Before this was the abomination of desolation mentioned to be placed by the arms that stood up with him. Jesus told us this generation would not pass till all those other things
come to pass. The wars and rumours of wars time is like this - be ye not troubled. So it
was not going to contain within it the time of the beginning of sorrows events.

Vinsight, you've been busy. I wonder if you were going to backspace all those posts to a slash.

\

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs (winter fruit),
when she is shaken of a mighty wind"- Rev. 6:13



Stars of Heaven = Angels, one for each person saved, both the dead first and then we who remain alive and are left.
"And they shall gather together his elect from the four winds"

"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" ...​

Fig Tree = The Commonwealth of Israel or the Israel of God, believers in our Glorious Lord Jesus.

"Like grapes in the wilderness, I found Israel. Like the first fruit on the fig tree in its first season"​

Untimely figs = Everyone who ever died in Christ, plus a numberless multitude of the living.

"One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe"​

Its Winter Fruit = Everyone who ever died in Christ, plus a numberless multitude of the living.

"the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing"​

She = His Bride has made herself ready.

"Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb"​

Shaken of a Mighty Wind = "And I will raise him up on the last day"

"And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind"​

32 Learn ye the parable from the fig tree; When its branch is tender, and the leaves sprout, ye know that the ripe fruit is nigh (du Tillet)

 

[Dave Watchman]

By focusing on a "physical" explanation of what is described, you are asking us to "ignore" a ton of biblical evidence concerning the "symbolic" meaning of these words in the Scripture, especially with regard to the Old Testament. If I have to list every chapter and verse in the Old Testament where the "Sun Being Darkened" is used metaphorically to describe God turning his face away from mankind, because of violence and idolatry, this post is indeed going to get very, very long.

In Bible symbolism, the moon is frequently referred to as a metaphor for "lesser spiritual beliefs". In my opinion beliefs like Islam, Buddhism, Taoism and a number of other Eastern, and primitive religions, fall into this category described as "lesser spiritual beliefs" when compared to the Judeo Christian religion.

Unless you can present some pretty irrefutable proof of a physical manifestation of this prophecy, I'm going to remain very much inclined, and will have to go with a symbolic translation instead.

I'm not ask you to "ignore" anything.

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come"- Joel 2:31​

Notice "turned into darkness", sounds all dark like a total solar eclipse.

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light"- Matthew 24:29​

Notice "will be darkened", sounds partly dark like a partial solar eclipse.

In Joel we have a "before" and then in Matthew we have an "immediately after".

"BEFORE"<------------AND------------>"IMMEDIATELY AFTER"

<----1260---->
<-----1290-----> 0.976744186046512
<------1335------> 0.966292134831461
<-------1372-------> 0.973032069970845

 

[random person]

The seven bowls and seven trumpets appear to be simultaneous to each other and not consecutive. Compare them side by side... especially the plagues of the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl. They are the same plagues. Also, they are the end. I can see a definite likely relationship between each of the trumpets and bowls. I think the bowls focus on the kingdom of the beast and trumpets are universal.

Matthew 24:27-28
27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

When Jesus returns, everyone will see and people will die (Zechariah 14:12) and become food for vultures (Revelation 19:21).

Matthew 24:30-31
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (This is after the Tribulation, btw. See
Matthew 24:29-30 "29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven..."

Jesus' parable of the wheat and the tares (and the parable of the dragnet) in Matthew 13 should put the whole Pre-Tribulation/Post-Tribulation theories to bed, because the destruction of the wicked clearly precedes the gathering of the righteous.

I have nothing to lose, but you have a lot to lose by putting your faith in "I won't be here." I entreat you, don't listen to the teachers who prophecy things you want to hear. Maybe God will appoint you to die prior to the Tribulation, but you can't count on it.

luke 17:37, do you know what the "aquila" is?

 

[FredVB]

The saints in their new clothes will return out of heaven
before the vials have ended. They come out of heaven as armies with Him. At this time, Jesus
Christ will wear many crowns, unlike the time of Rev. 14 when He reaps the earth-and wears one crown.

The new clothes of the saints are the righteousness of Christ they acquire to have on. Why should I believe that it is these saints that come out of heaven as armies, or that the saints are needed for that? Won't angels be clothed in such robes?

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Luke17:37]

luke 17:37, do you know what the "aquila" is?

I just did a Google search. BTW, the Greek word aetos (Luke 17:37, Matthew 24:17) is translated as eagle or vulture.

• Aquila (constellation), the astronomical constellation, the Eagle

• Aquila (genus), a genus of birds including some eagles
  
  (BTW, I thought I wrote that Jesus' wheat and tares parable in Matthew 13 should stop pre and mid-tribulation theories. I edited my post. Now it says that which I thought I typed.)

 

[Luke17:37]

eagle - Why did you ask Luke?

I'm also curious to know. Although it probably has something to do with the vultures or eagles verses I mentioned.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[stephen583]

"The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come"- Joel 2:31

"THUS SAYS THE LORD, "LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE NATIONS, NOR BE DISMAYED AT THE SIGNS OF THE HEAVENS, BECAUSE THE NATIONS ARE DISMAYED BY THEM" (Jeremiah, 10:2).

Jeremiah 10:2 indicates the "astronomical" interpretation of Joel 2:31 is INCORRECT. In Bible symbolism, the light of the "Sun" represents the grace of God as it is bestowed upon those who are righteous, (Psalm 84:11, Malachi 4:2). When the "Sun" is being described as being "darkened" God turns his face away from mankind, and we live in spiritual (not literal) darkness, (Acts 17:11, 1 John 1:6).

The "Moon" symbolizes "lesser spiritual beliefs". The Moon is worshipped by ISLAM. That's why the Crescent Moon sits atop the spires of their minarets and is featured on ISLAMIC national flags. Given the appearance of Islamic radicalism and violence evidenced by ISIS, it's hard not to realize the "Moon has been turned to blood" in recent historic times as never before.

So yes. You are asking us to vacate all this symbolic meaning and accept your astronomical interpretation instead.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[Luke17:37]

I started going verse by verse in the Christ's Parable/Statements thread, so I want to continue that a bit more as it seems to fit here.

always using KJV
Revelation 19:9
"And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

At this point, John seems to think that God is speaking. -These are the true sayings of God.
In the next verse, John will fall down to worship, but get told not to. This holy being speaking to him is not God. This he -is linked back earlier, so let's move on.
Notice that John says - the Lamb.
But twice he has told us - a Lamb.
Why?
This is because John will run two separate Lamb prophecies within the Book of Revelation as to Jesus Christ.
Revelation 5:6
"And I beheld...a Lamb..."
Revelation 14:1
"And I looked...a Lamb..."
This is important as the right parts need put with the right Lamb prophecy.

What I wonder is how did ones get called to the marriage supper of the Lamb? It seems
that John has heard something - maybe names or such, because he then again felt the need to tell who the speaker now is in Revelation 19:9. he saith ///he saith

This same type of thing has happened before, in chapter 17. John tells us "said" "saith"/// twice,
because John heard this holy being tell two different mysteries in this chapter.

"And the angel said unto me...." Revelation 17:7
"And he saith unto me..." Revelation 17:15
The angel never stopped speaking at verse 14, but that verse ended one mystery explanation.

The Lamb in Revelation always refers to Jesus, the Passover Lamb (1 Cor 5:7). "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29)