Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

[AV1611VET]

The odds of this First Century Palestinian burial shroud—with the unique features of Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection—being that of anyone but Jesus is exceedingly remote.

It seems to me that the shroud would be a violation of the Second Commandment.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The shroud

The Shroud was refuted. The cloth is roughly the same age as its first appearance.


Don't worry too much. Refuting the Shroud does not refute God.

 

[Astrid]

The odds of this First Century Palestinian burial shroud—with the unique features of Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection—being that of anyone but Jesus is exceedingly remote. Inasmuch as the image is not a forgery, and it originated from a real person living at the time of Jesus, crucified in the unique way of Jesus, and producing a burst of intense vacuum ultraviolet radiation from his decomposing body, who else would it be? Given all this, we might reasonably infer that the Shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus which contains not only a relic of his crucifixion, but also his resurrection in glory. If so, it shows both the truth of the most significant event in human history as well as the accuracy of the Gospel accounts of it. The 7 Essential Modules - Credible Catholic

So do you consider it proof of God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It seems to me that the shroud would be a violation of the Second Commandment.

Even the Catholic church with their love of "relics" thought that it was likely a fraud when it was first given to them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So do you consider it proof of God?

Sorry, I thought that you were relying on the Shroud of Turin.

 

[Astrid]

Sorry, I thought that you were relying on the Shroud of Turin.

True or fake wasn't the issue but whether it is considered proof.
There could be a 2000 yr old shroud for someone who'd been executed so.

 

[disciple Clint]

It seems to me that the shroud would be a violation of the Second Commandment.

Only if it is worshiped as an idol.

 

[disciple Clint]

So do you consider it proof of God?

I would not use the word proof to describe it.

 

[Astrid]

I would not use the word proof to describe it.

Is there some point then in your promoting this item as being genuine?
My reading, pro and con, makes me very dubious.

 

[AV1611VET]

Only if it is worshiped as an idol.

Why wouldn't the Apostles have carried it around to show others?

 

[AV1611VET]

Is there some point then in your promoting this item as being genuine?
My reading, pro and con, makes me very dubious.

The shroud depicts Jesus as having a beard, contrary to the Bible.

Isaiah 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

 

[Frank Robert]

There are no successful results.

No one is close to creating DNA, RNA, or a precursor to RNA under prebiotic conditions.

In fact information theory has proven the impossibility of a random assembling of amino acids into a living cell, ever.

Organic chemistry professor James Tour exposes the facts:

Tour did a series of videos on the topic . Here is a summary:
How did X? I don’t know. They don’t know. Nobody knows, they’re clueless.

 

[Astrid]

Foolishness.

The Law of Biogenesis isn't a law in the conventional scientific sense like laws of motion or electromagnetism.

It's a counter to the outdated concepts that fully formed, complex animals would be generated from unliving matter like burning logs or rotting flesh.

I suppose it would be better called a principle rather than a law.
We don't see spontaneous generation going on...though if life
spontaneously does arrive somewhere, I don't know how we'd ever know it.

A principle our hero is unaware of is that no law can ever be proven,
so it cannot be used as formal scientific proof of anything.

Likewise, "...theory has proven..." is just ignorant garbage.

 

[disciple Clint]

Is there some point then in your promoting this item as being genuine?
My reading, pro and con, makes me very dubious.

If it could be established as being genuine it would remove the need for anyone to have faith and only a fool would refuse to accept Jesus as savior. It seems it is God's intention to provide substantial encouragement but still require some faith.

 

[AV1611VET]

We don't see spontaneous generation going on...though if life spontaneously does arrive somewhere, I don't know how we'd ever know it.

The appearance of life on the earth was scripted, not spontaneous.

So don't worry ... you can know it.

 

[Astrid]

If it could be established as being genuine it would remove the need for anyone to have faith and only a fool would refuse to accept Jesus as savior. It seems it is God's intention to provide substantial encouragement but still require some faith.

So you agree there are substantial reasons to
doubt it's authenticity.

 

[Mr Laurier]

You’ve fallen for the outrageous propaganda hook, line and sinker.

When the League of Nations/ United Nations gave that land to Israel there was a slogan that went with it - a land without people, for a people without a land.

That’s backed up by the famous skeptic Mark Twain, who wrote about his visit to that land before Israelis moved there, and described it as a sparsely populated desert land.

Only after Israel moved there and terraformed the desert and invented things like drip irrigation, and made the area habitable, did the Arabs start moving in and tried to claim it as theirs.

The Israelis had no problem letting Arabs move there, but in 1948 as soon as Israel officially became a nation, six surrounding Arab nations attacked them to destroy them, and they ordered the Arabs to leave the area until Israel was wiped out, thus becoming so-called refugees, which the Arabs are still using after decades, for political reasons, as part of the false accusations and propaganda against Israel.

The only "outrageous propaganda" is the worn out falsehoods you are regurgitating.
When Napoleon Bonaparte besieged the city of Jaffa on 1799. It was fully inhabited. And surrounded by cultivated farm land to the east.
A century later, the ottoman Turkish province if Jerusalem, was still paying taxes to the Ottoman state. In 1915, a large force on conscripts from Palestine, deserted from the Ottoman army, and fled home to Palestine. They then revolted against Ottoman rule. On 1918, the British betrayed their Palestinian allies, and renamed southern Palestine as "The Transjordan".
Subsequent Palestinian revolts through the 1920s and 30s were put down with typical ferocity.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Think what you want.

And ignore all the facts that refute my wishful thinking? No thankyou.
Better to live in reality, than to be bamboozled all the time by every con man who promises me an easy life if I just give him my money.

They did assume there was junk DNA as an evolutionary leftover or a viral insertion they named endogenous retro viruses or ERVs, before finally figuring out those segments of DNA are involved in the growth and development of the fetus, and then are deactivated, but don’t let actual facts interfere with your shpiel.

Wow. You are very good at twisting half-truths to fit your fantasies.
We KNOW (not assume) that SOME junk DNA is a leftover from past evolution. And that SOME junk DNA is related to fetal development.
We also KNOW that ERVs are the remnants of old viruses that DID become inserted into our DNA.
Alas, YOU are relying on old information, from many decades ago. And presenting this old and outdated data as though it was still current.

 

[Mr Laurier]

That's pretty rich, considering your national anthem starts out: "O Canada! Our home and native land!"

So "rich" it needs to pay off its 2nd hand TV in installments. Yes.
Your point being?

 

[Mr Laurier]

Can you show me the exact wording you are talking about, general answers are not helpful as evidence. I would be shocked that over all these years no one would have raised your objection about the coins, there were Jewish scholars reviewing everything that claimed to support that Jesus was God.

You may have noticed that Jewish scholars are still Jews, And are not converting in droves... or indeed at all.