Is the Earth Flat?

[Shrewd Manager]

The physics equations involved are performed on a calculator.

Lol, you just can't let go of the maths. But the physics, the actual real tests, like Michelson Morley, Sagnac, Michelson-Gale and so on. Interferometers not calculators there. You need to actually detect the motion predicted with the theoretical calculations.

 

[prodromos]

Lol, you just can't let go of the maths. But the physics, the actual real tests, like Michelson Morley, Sagnac, Michelson-Gale and so on. Interferometers not calculators there. You need to actually detect the motion predicted with the theoretical calculations.

So what are the forces predicted by the theoretical calculations? Is it the kind of force any person is likely to be able to feel? What level of precision is needed in the instruments used to detect such forces? Who actually has such instruments at their disposal?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

So what are the forces predicted by the theoretical calculations? Is it the kind of force any person is likely to be able to feel? What level of precision is needed in the instruments used to detect such forces? Who actually has such instruments at their disposal?

Well in the case of Michelson-Morley and Sagnac, it was the interferometer. These are very simple in principle, but (as you can imagine), highly precise and sensitive instruments. The MMX has been repeated thousands of times, and only ever shows light fringe patterns that could indicate either (a) earth's rotation but not orbit or (b) earth's non-rotation with a rotating ether.

Michelson himself admitted that the results directly contradicted the presupposition of the earth's motion.

So there is a consistent divergence between experimental results and theoretical postulates, which is papered over by devices like the Lorentz transform equations.

 

[prodromos]

Well in the case of Michelson-Morley and Sagnac, it was the interferometer. These are very simple in principle, but (as you can imagine), highly precise and sensitive instruments. The MMX has been repeated thousands of times, and only ever shows light fringe patterns that could indicate either (a) earth's rotation but not orbit or (b) earth's non-rotation with a rotating ether.

Michelson himself admitted that the results directly contradicted the presupposition of the earth's motion.

The Michelson–Morley experiment was an attempt to detect the existence of the luminiferous aether, a supposed medium permeating space that was thought to be the carrier of light waves. The results proved his presupposition of the existence of luminiferous aether was wrong. It was not an experiment to detect the earth's rotation.

The Sagnac effect has proven very useful in the development of ring laser gyroscopes which have replaced the much bulkier mechanical gyroscopes. The Sagnac effect does detect the earth's rotation as Bob Knodel discovered when he was using one to try and prove the earth was stationary.

So there is a consistent divergence between experimental results and theoretical postulates, which is papered over by devices like the Lorentz transform equations.

The theoretical postulates were not what you falsely claim them to be. What a surprise to find flat earther's lying about experiments.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

The Michelson–Morley experiment was an attempt to detect the existence of the luminiferous aether, a supposed medium permeating space that was thought to be the carrier of light waves. The results proved his presupposition of the existence of luminiferous aether was wrong. It was not an experiment to detect the earth's rotation.

There were 2 MMX's, in 1881 and 1887. The former can be found here: https://physics.ucf.edu/~rep/EDI/michelson.pdf. I can't readily locate a full version of the latter online at the moment, only page 1 and the citation:On the relative motion of the Earth and the luminiferous ether
Can you locate a full version?

The first experiment was set up to investigate 'The relative motion of the earth and the luminiferous ether' (title). It found that there was some, but insufficient light fringes for what was predicted. He interpreted it as no displacement, and therefore the hypothesis of a stationary ether and a moving earth was incorrect.

He states in the final paragraph on the penultimate page that 'This conclusion directly contradicts the explanation [...] which presupposes that the earth moves through the ether.'

The Sagnac effect has proven very useful in the development of ring laser gyroscopes which have replaced the much bulkier mechanical gyroscopes. The Sagnac effect does detect the earth's rotation as Bob Knodel discovered when he was using one to try and prove the earth was stationary.

Yes, Sagnac disproved Einstein's SR by showing that the speed of the observer did not affect the speed of light, and therefore ether was a 'thing'. Any idea that ocean waves can travel without water is patently absurd. That's why we have applied Sagnac and no applied Einstein.

As for the Bob Knodel canard, I think you've been watching too many brutally edited glober propaganda docos.

The theoretical postulates were not what you falsely claim them to be. What a surprise to find flat earther's lying about experiments.

Let God be true and every man a liar, as it turns out some more than others, Mr Prodromos.

 

[JacksBratt]

He claims that EVERY plane that has autopilot, this is the map that is used. He gives no references, doesn't name the map, gives absolutely nothing more than just his say so, and you call my retort weak?

Still no reason to state, with any validity, that they are clue less.
Totallly unfounded.

 

[prodromos]

Still no reason to state, with any validity, that they are clue less.
Totallly unfounded.

LOL
Sure, whatever you say.

 

[JacksBratt]

LOL
Sure, whatever you say.

Always happy to give someone a chuckle....

Still..... you have no right to call them "clueless" just because you cannot prove his claim to be false, even if you don't want to accept that his claim may be true.

 

[d taylor]

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How the globe came to be believed, can be seen in how evolution and now currently the transgender movement is being presented to the public.

Basically the main focus is the youth/child, which is done usually through some kind of organized education in their youth. If this was to go on in time, in say 100 to 200 years. Evolution and now transgender will be accepted by the public, as now the globe earth is.

 

[prodromos]

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How the globe came to be believed, can be seen in how evolution and now currently the transgender movement is being presented to the public.

Basically the main focus is the youth/child, which is done usually through some kind of organized education in their youth. If this was to go on in time, in say 100 to 200 years. Evolution and now transgender will be accepted by the public, as now the globe earth is.

Globe earth has been the understanding since long before schools were a thing. You are just making stuff up.

 

[d taylor]

Globe earth has been the understanding since long before schools were a thing. You are just making stuff up.

Where did i say school in my post. Looks like you are reading into my post what you want to see. Kind of what you do with God's creation in The Bible.

 

[prodromos]

Where did i say school in my post.

Basically the main focus is the youth/child, which is done usually through some kind of organized education in their youth.

Looks like you are reading into my post what you want to see.

Looks like you are playing word games.

 

[JacksBratt]

Looks like you are playing word games.

I have misunderstood posts in the past. Maybe read their post again. We all make mistakes.

 

[d taylor]

Looks like you are playing word games.

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No, just stating that in ancient Greece ( and i am sure other areas) youth were educated in some manner. Either by the governing power or some establishment of thought at the time. So when the new idea that the earth was a sphere, i am sure it quickly made its way into the teaching of youth.

Even in The Bible it is stated pagan men were always interested in the newest ideas of the time.

For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.

 

[prodromos]

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No, just stating that in ancient Greece ( and i am sure other areas) youth were educated in some manner. Either by the governing power or some establishment of thought at the time. So when the new idea that the earth was a sphere, i am sure it quickly made its way into the teaching of youth.

Even in The Bible it is stated pagan men were always interested in the newest ideas of the time.

For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.

Only the wealthy could afford private tuition for their children. There were no education organisations for the masses like you are suggesting. It is just wishful thinking on your part.

 

[d taylor]

Only the wealthy could afford private tuition for their children. There were no education organisations for the masses like you are suggesting. It is just wishful thinking on your part.

I still see you are reading ideas into my post.

 

[WintersDust]

I believe it's in the neighborhood of 360 degrees.

360 degrees? Man,that's hot!

Global Disc warming.

 

[prodromos]

I still see you are reading ideas into my post.

Basically the main focus is the youth/child, which is done usually through some kind of organized education in their youth.

The bolded text is "school" by another name.

How the globe came to be believed, can be seen in how evolution and now currently the transgender movement is being presented to the public.

The education system that has been used to push the above ideas simply did not exist in ancient Greece, nor is there any evidence that the idea of a "globe earth" was being pushed by any government or authorities. It is a figment of your imagination.

 

[d taylor]

The bolded text is "school" by another name.

The education system that has been used to push the above ideas simply did not exist in ancient Greece, nor is there any evidence that the idea of a "globe earth" was being pushed by any government or authorities. It is a figment of your imagination.

Interesting how you set your self up as this know it all authority, too bad you do not realize that you do not come off as a person with knowledge and authority. But just as someone who likes to voice their opinion.

I see no reason to believe globe earthers and their opinions on a flat earth thread.

 

[prodromos]

Interesting how you set your self up as this know it all authority, too bad you do not realize that you do not come off as a person with knowledge and authority. But just as someone who likes to voice their opinion.

Accurate self description. Doing a bit of projecting I see.

globe earthers i do not believe anything you will say.

Provide historical evidence of your claims. I've read enough ancient history to know you are just making stuff up.