Is the Earth Flat?

[d taylor]

Accurate self description. Doing a bit of projecting I see.

Provide historical evidence of your claims. I've read enough ancient history to know you are just making stuff up.

Again your opinion does not matter. As for providing evidence, i have in the past for other topics and as it was then a waste of time. This also would be a waste of time, so there you go.

 

[prodromos]

Again your opinion does not matter. As for providing evidence, i have in the past for other topics and as it was then a waste of time. This also would be a waste of time, so there you go.

Your opinion. Your idea of evidence is posting pictures of planets and calling them stars.

 

[d taylor]

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For the lovers of science: Heliocentrism Refuted: Experimental Proof of a Stationary Earth

 

[prodromos]

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For the lovers of science: Heliocentrism Refuted: Experimental Proof of a Stationary Earth

LOL, where do you find this nonsense? They completely ignore relative motion, something as common as walking through the carriage of a fast travelling train.

 

[d taylor]

LOL, where do you find this nonsense? They completely ignore relative motion, something as common as walking through the carriage of a fast travelling train.

If you have not noticed, the earth is not a carriage. Oh i know science makes that claim, but they claim a lot of absurdities.

 

[d taylor]

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Latest fake rocket to outer space showing the fake globe earth. 50 years later and again this is the advancement of nasa and their ability to show images of earth.

 

[d taylor]

Wheel of Fortune
Not sure what they call the titles they try to guess puzzles?

 

[The Liturgist]

LOL, where do you find this nonsense? They completely ignore relative motion, something as common as walking through the carriage of a fast travelling train.

Indeed, when your proof doesn’t even agree with Classical Mechanics let alone Relativity that should be a red flag.

 

[The Liturgist]

Wheel of Fortune
Not sure what they call the titles they try to guess puzzles?

So what? What is that supposed to prove? Seriously?

 

[The Liturgist]

If you have not noticed, the earth is not a carriage. Oh i know science makes that claim, but they claim a lot of absurdities.

What do you think happens if you are traveling in a fast moving train that is neither accelerating nor decelerating but traveling at a constant rate, and you, for example, jump? Do you think you would land on the same spot?

 

[The Liturgist]

Interesting how you set your self up as this know it all authority, too bad you do not realize that you do not come off as a person with knowledge and authority. But just as someone who likes to voice their opinion.

I see no reason to believe globe earthers and their opinions on a flat earth thread.

To me, @prodromos is the one member of this forum who I can count on to be correct on pretty much every subject.

The only possible area where he and I might disagree would involve the legitimacy of the Oriental Orthodox churches, particularly the Coptic and Syriac Orthodox, and the contribution I believe St. Severus of Antioch made to Eastern Orthodox thought.

Also on a more trivial note I have no idea what his preferences are concerning urban transit systems (I love Melbourne’s tram network but dang it, why can’t they just use the classic W series trams everywhere? There are probably more W1 trams in the US on heritage tramways then in Melbourne), passenger rail (I lament the fact I might not get to ride on the Australian version of an HST, the XPT I think its called), airliners (which is more elegant? The DC-8-51, 707-320B or Vickers Super VC10? I like a little VC10derness myself), and ocean liners (I would rather RMS Maurerania have survived than even SS Normandie, but SS Normandie is a close second, and for that matter I am furious NCL sent SS Norway, formerly the SS France, to the breakers. Such a beautiful ship. I’ve heard SS Rotterdam and Queen Elisabeth 2 have been preserved, hopefully that is true).

Aside from these possible bones of contention, in which I have no idea what @prodromos thinks, I agree with everything he has posted on ChristianForums that I have read.

 

[The Liturgist]

In fact, whenever I see @prodromos has posted something, I read it first. He is one of a handful of members whose posts I read with immediate priority (I also love the writings of @ViaCrucis @MarkRohfrietsch @concretecamper and @dzheremi although except in the case of @dzheremi, whose theology I agree with to the same extreme extent I agree with that of @prodromos, there are occasionally some exceedingly minor points of theological disagreement, although it amazes me how little we all disagree on. Adiaphora, as the Lutherans call it, except I question the existence of adiaphora, preferring instead the concept of permissable theologoumemna.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

In fact, whenever I see @prodromos has posted something, I read it first. He is one of a handful of members whose posts I read with immediate priority (I also love the writings of @ViaCrucis @MarkRohfrietsch @concretecamper and @dzheremi although except in the case of @dzheremi, whose theology I agree with to the same extreme extent I agree with that of @prodromos, there are occasionally some exceedingly minor points of theological disagreement, although it amazes me how little we all disagree on. Adiaphora, as the Lutherans call it, except I question the existence of adiaphora, preferring instead the concept of permissable theologoumemna.

...or "Pious Opinion".

 

[Mark Quayle]

LOL, where do you find this nonsense? They completely ignore relative motion, something as common as walking through the carriage of a fast travelling train.

Correct. From what I'm reading there, his whole line of thinking depends on the notion (though he didn't say so) that the air is still while the earth spins under it. By what he is saying, the plane in the process of landing on an equatorial north-south oriented runway at, say, 100 mph, would also be 'flying' sideways at 1000 mph. One wonders why he didn't figure in the revolution of the earth about the sun, and the solar systems revolution about the galaxy, etc.

 

[Edwin Wright]

LOL, where do you find this nonsense? They completely ignore relative motion, something as common as walking through the carriage of a fast travelling train.

You have completely missed the concept presented in this argument. You are comparing someone walking through the carriage of a traveling train (whereby his or her walking velocity (or an angular component thereof) is simply added or subtracted to the velocity of the train, depending on what direction they are traveling relative to the direction of the train) to a plane taking off from one location at (alleged) earth tangential velocity v1 and landing at (alleged) earth tangential velocity v2, the latter circumstance being conceptually identical to a person throwing a ball from an inner location on a merry-go-round to a person at an outer location on a merry-go-round, the ball missing the person at the outer location and therefore exiting the merry-go-round. In the case of the train, the person stays with the train and therefore attains the changing velocity of the train in addition to his or her walking velocity. In the case of a plane flying with a northerly or southerly component, the plane departs from a runway (and therefore leaves the surface of the earth) that is (allegedly) moving with one velocity and arrives at another runway that is (allegedly) moving with another velocity - an impossible task if the earth were actually spinning. This is basic dynamics. You really need to think about this.

 

[The Liturgist]

...or "Pious Opinion".

Exactly. For example, I maintain that the Litany of Peace sounds better if you don’t have the congregational response “Lord have mercy” overlap with the word Lord in the petition “Let us pray to the Lord”, and it is also more faithful to the original languages; also it sounds better if you use Kyrie Eleison or Gospodi Pomuli or the Arabic, which I can’t remember how to spell, instead of the English, whereas if I recall you enthusiastically support the Lutheran Service Book recommending that.

That said I do wish Orthodox composers would take a stab at making the Hours more interesting, taking inspiration from Western compositions of the Litany “Kyrie eleison”, for example, those by Bach, rather than just repeating Kyrie Eleison forty or forty one times (depending on rite). That said, the Coptic Morning Raising of Incense, one of two such remnants of their Cathedral Office, sung before their three Divine Liturgies, does an amazing job with its Kyrie Eleison litany.

 

[The Liturgist]

You have completely missed the concept presented in this argument. You are comparing someone walking through the carriage of a traveling train (whereby his or her walking velocity (or an angular component thereof) is simply added or subtracted to the velocity of the train, depending on what direction they are traveling relative to the direction of the train) to a plane taking off from one location at (alleged) earth tangential velocity v1 and landing at (alleged) earth tangential velocity v2, the latter circumstance being conceptually identical to a person throwing a ball from an inner location on a merry-go-round to a person at an outer location on a merry-go-round, the ball missing the person at the outer location and therefore exiting the merry-go-round. In the case of the train, the person stays with the train and therefore attains the changing velocity of the train in addition to his or her walking velocity. In the case of a plane flying with a northerly or southerly component, the plane departs from a runway (and therefore leaves the surface of the earth) that is (allegedly) moving with one velocity and arrives at another runway that is (allegedly) moving with another velocity - an impossible task if the earth were actually spinning. This is basic dynamics. You really need to think about this.

You might enjoy and find enlightening a study of how aerodynamics and rocket science. What you say would be relevant, although still not quite correct, at speeds above Mach 25, which is the escape velocity, but for commercial airliners travelling at most at just over Mach 2 in the case of Concorde at an altitude not exceeding 60,000, and usually at a speed of Mach 0.87* , a combination of atmospheric pressure and gravity renders that moot.

However, while we are on the subject of aviation, there are, contra Flat Earth claims, occasional flights from Buenos Aires and Santiago de Chile to Sydney and Jo’burg, and from Jo’burg to Perth, the latter being rather important for mining companies doing business in Africa and South America (Perth is the center of the world’s mining industry, being to ore what Houston is to oil).


*Or mach 0.89 in the case of the Boeing 747, the end of production of which is particularly sad because aside from being the second largest passenger liner after the A380, and a vastly superior freighter, the 747 is also the fastest conventional jetliner, and also has a reputation among pilots as being one of the easiest to fly, along with the 757-200 and 777-200, much easier than the 737-800 and 737-900, due to their extreme stretching, or the 757-300 “flying pencil” because of the ease of getting a tailstrike, or the A340-300s which are mostly retired but had a deservedly bad reputation for being sluggish and underpowered despite having four engines).

 

[The Liturgist]

If you have not noticed, the earth is not a carriage. Oh i know science makes that claim, but they claim a lot of absurdities.

Also, science does not claim the Earth is a railway carriage. Rather, railway carriages are used as analogies to explain the concept of relative motion and additive velocity vectors, and related concepts (for example, why it is that if you jump in a train that is travelling at a constant speed, you land on the same spot, which is not the case if the train is accelerating; travel on any subway with long inter-station segments, like BART in San Francisco or the RER in Paris, to experience the effect).

Railway carriages also sometimes show up in analogies concerning the speed of light and time dilation.

However we are not actually positing that the Earth, celestial objects and manned spacecraft are traveling across the cosmos on galactic railway tracks.

Also a solid understanding of physics is needed for railway engineering. I am not aware of a single civil engineer involved in the design, construction and refurbishment of rail transport systems, and I do know some, because the railroad historical society I am a member of purchased a disused turntable and installed it, which was no mean feat, requiring the digging of a massive ditch, which was filled with reinforced concrete, the turntable resting on a bearing, and traveling on a guiderail, and using its vintage 1930s DC motors which draw power from an overhead electrical supply. The engineers on the project were a retired engineer from the Argentine railways, who had built two turntables in the 1960s on the narrow gauge lines in Patagonia, and an American electrical and electronics engineer who restored the control gear and motor equipment, who reposed in 2000, memory eternal. He was my best friend.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Exactly. For example, I maintain that the Litany of Peace sounds better if you don’t have the congregational response “Lord have mercy” overlap with the word Lord in the petition “Let us pray to the Lord”, and it is also more faithful to the original languages; also it sounds better if you use Kyrie Eleison or Gospodi Pomuli or the Arabic, which I can’t remember how to spell, instead of the English, whereas if I recall you enthusiastically support the Lutheran Service Book recommending that.

That said I do wish Orthodox composers would take a stab at making the Hours more interesting, taking inspiration from Western compositions of the Litany “Kyrie eleison”, for example, those by Bach, rather than just repeating Kyrie Eleison forty or forty one times (depending on rite). That said, the Coptic Morning Raising of Incense, one of two such remnants of their Cathedral Office, sung before their three Divine Liturgies, does an amazing job with its Kyrie Eleison litany.

In our Parish we use the Greek Kyrie when we use setting 1 of the the Divine Service; regarding the Litany of peace, I rather like the "over lap in the litany; LSB Evening Prayer, it begins at 8:33.

 

[A_Thinker]

Wheel of Fortune
Not sure what they call the titles they try to guess puzzles?

The earth looks pretty flat to all of its inhabitants ... except for those who have spent time 35,000 feet plus from it ...