Is Struggling with sin normal?

[JIMINZ]

By perfect I mean, never missing the mark. That is what sin is...missing the mark.

Lets get this straightened out before we go any further.

The Bible itself tells us what Sin is.

1 Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

There is a whole world of difference between Sin is Missing the Mark and
Sin is the transgression of the law.

Missing the mark is like saying, I didn't really Transgress the Law and sin, I just missed the Mark, oops

 

[JIMINZ]

Unfortunately, "practice" is what many pastors teach. They will be held accountable. Of course, you can get a license as a minister on line these days. Yikes!

I can where?

 

[charsan]

Get Ordained Online here is one place. I have been ordained for years from an online site

 

[JIMINZ]

Get Ordained Online here is one place. I have been ordained for years from an online site

Maybe I can become a Televangelist of great renown!

 

[JIMINZ]

1 John 3:9 means to practice sin....

Furthermore, while were on the subject, a bit more clarification is needed.

When we see
1 Jn. 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Are you saying that the word translated in this verse for COMMIT, is the same because, the word here is also (G-4160) - POYEHO would you superimpose the Greek word PRASSO as you have done with the 1 Jn.3:9 verse?

If you do then the meaning of the verse then says that those who PRACTICE, (meaning according to you) are Living in a state perpetual sin.

Is that what your saying, if it isn't they your use of the word PRACTICE in
1 Jn. 3:9 is also wrong, which it is.

Now with this verse we find.

1 Jn. 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Only those who are living in a state of continual (G-4160)(Practice) sin are of the Devil, all the others are only Missing the Mark, so I've been told.

Therefore when we finally do get to the verse in question I ask.

1 Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Is this saying that (Whosoever is born of God doth not commit Practice, Live in a State of continual sin) but he continues to sin on a regular ongoing basis, and that he is not really a Servant of sin because he really doesn't Practice sin as you have defined it?....As someone once said, "Are We Clear"

 

[CharismaticLady]

I can where?

Google: minister's license online

 

[JacksBratt]

Everything you said is true.......for you. I believe you struggle with all the sin you say you struggle with. And I find no fault in you being content in remaining in this state, or believing that you have no choice in the matter.

I do not, however, believe this to be true for all. I believe there are a few that are made prefect, a few that can do what Jesus did and greater things than those, a few that will believe and receive every promise listed in the Word.

And I, like you, believe that most will struggle with sin......But I encourage all to strive to be the few....not the multitude....for it is possible to those that believe.

You believe that there are a few that are made perfect?

How many? Who are they? Where are they?

In every church that I have ever attended.... there are very strong Christian people.... along with others all over the map of how mature they are in their walk with Christ and how strong they walk with God..

ALL sin... every single one of them... I could follow any one of them around, no matter how passionate about Christ... and within no time... I could point out a sin.

I admire your optimism, however, we all sin... It's just that those who are children of God... we continually strive not to.

 

[JacksBratt]

Abraham was perfect.
Paul was perfect.
Many men , Ekklesia throughout Scripture and history, were perfect.
There's some perfect today. (no, not many)

Perfect in English is a different word and meaning than in Scripture.

Yahuweh said His people must be holy - no exception offered.
Jesus said the disciples must be perfect - no exception offered.

But if 'perfect' meant what it means in English, then probably not.... it just does not mean the same.....

maybe read this: Romans 7

Here's a blurb....

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[JIMINZ]

maybe read this: Romans 7

Here's a blurb....

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus Christ that's who.

Paul isn't asking a question he has not already received the answer to.

It's Rhetorical, he knows what he's talking about try reading Rom. 6 then Rom. 8 everything is there if you are open to it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I looked up perfect, or variations on the word, and for those who don't understand the doctrine of perfection, it is all about love. And to love perfectly, you must be born again of the Spirit, and then be anxious for nothing, trusting that God is in complete control. Without the infilling of the Holy Spirit, the fruit of love cannot be perfected.

1 Peter 5:10
But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

1 John 2:5
But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

1 John 4:12
[ Seeing God Through Love ] No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.

1 John 4:17
[ The Consummation of Love ] Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Those who love to quote Romans 7:

Keep reading. Romans 7 is an unsaved person under the law (like the OT Jews), Romans 8 is about receiving the law of the Spirit of life in Christ that sets us free from the law of sin and death.

8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Too many in-name-only Christians have never truly repented and been baptized in the Holy Spirit, and their lives chronicle Romans 7 instead of Romans 8. Those who only relate to Romans 7, also love to quote 1 John 1:8 to justify their lack of the power of the Spirit, and to mock the fact that Jesus takes away our sin.

Just REPENT. Acts 2:38-39

 

[Heart2Soul]

I have something to present here and would enjoy others thoughts....
1. The Lord's Prayer:......"forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us"
2. We are to confess our sins daily
3. We are told to not despise His chastisement...for whom the Father loves He chastises for their own good.
4. How many times did Jesus say to forgive our brother who sins against us....70 × 7.
5. A righteous man may fall 7 times but He will rise again.
6. Happy is a man who condemns not himself in that thing which he allows....but if he does condemn himself then what he does is a sin to him.
7. God does not look on the outer man but inwardly and judges what is in his heart.
8. And gave some to be Apostles, some Prophets, Preachers, Evangelists and Teachers........for the perfecting of the saints.
9. Daily put on your armor to withstand satans attacks.

There are so many more but I am getting tired.

Now my question....if a Christian (truly born again) is to remain sinless after salvation why are there so many scriptures addressing confessing and repenting of our sins throughout the OT and NT?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Oh and the 7 Churches in Revelation are addressed specifically regarding their faults that God speaks to and instructs them what to d9 to fix it.....

Ok, thanks...fyi the verses above and other verses like them that are throughout the Bible makes me believe their is sin after salvation.

 

[JacksBratt]

I have something to present here and would enjoy others thoughts....
1. The Lord's Prayer:......"forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us"
2. We are to confess our sins daily
3. We are told to not despise His chastisement...for whom the Father loves He chastises for their own good.
4. How many times did Jesus say to forgive our brother who sins against us....70 × 7.
5. A righteous man may fall 7 times but He will rise again.
6. Happy is a man who condemns not himself in that thing which he allows....but if he does condemn himself then what he does is a sin to him.
7. God does not look on the outer man but inwardly and judges what is in his heart.
8. And gave some to be Apostles, some Prophets, Preachers, Evangelists and Teachers........for the perfecting of the saints.
9. Daily put on your armor to withstand satans attacks.

There are so many more but I am getting tired.

Now my question....if a Christian (truly born again) is to remain sinless after salvation why are there so many scriptures addressing confessing and repenting of our sins throughout the OT and NT?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Oh and the 7 Churches in Revelation are addressed specifically regarding their faults that God speaks to and instructs them what to d9 to fix it.....

Ok, thanks...fyi the verses above and other verses like them that are throughout the Bible makes me believe their is sin after salvation.

Great post.

In post #43 I gave a list of sins that we all cannot help but commit...... No responses other than one who condemned me saying: Everything you said is true.......for you.

IMO saying that once you are saved you should never sin again... is just as bad as saying that salvation is a journey and doesn't happen in an instant... or.. that you can be saved and then lose it and have to keep asking for salvation over and over again..

These are all Satan's lies to keep God's children shackled by their sinful nature, doubting of the power of Christ and a slave to sin.

Christ said the if we believe no His name we are saved.... end of story.

Those that think that they can ask for Christ to forgive them and then carry on their sinful life..... not getting it..

It has to be a change of heart... Not a ticket you buy to get to heaven.. put it in your pocket and pull it out at the time of your death.

Your heart changes... You will still struggle with sin.. but you struggle with it.. not giving in to it. You are a new creature and your attitude and desire is to be more like Christ every day... even though you cannot ever be perfect.

We still sin but we are not held to this. Christ has forgiven all our sins past present and future. Still not a license to sin.

 

[JacksBratt]

Those who love to quote Romans 7:

Keep reading. Romans 7 is an unsaved person under the law (like the OT Jews), Romans 8 is about receiving the law of the Spirit of life in Christ that sets us free from the law of sin and death.

8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

Too many in-name-only Christians have never truly repented and been baptized in the Holy Spirit, and their lives chronicle Romans 7 instead of Romans 8. Those who only relate to Romans 7, also love to quote 1 John 1:8 to justify their lack of the power of the Spirit, and to mock the fact that Jesus takes away our sin.

Just REPENT. Acts 2:38-39

Romans 7 is not an unsaved person... Unsaved people don't care about their sins... they don't need a savior... remember?

 

[Gideons300]

Darn straight it is. We're only human and we will struggle with sin every day of our lives. It will only be when we are in Heaven that we are unable to sin. Living a sinless life is pretty much impossible but we're still expected to resist our sinful nature lest we regress back to our darker selves.

Struggling with sin and struggling with temptation are not the same. We are called to walk in victory over the world, the flesh and the devil, to be overcomers, not to be the church of the perpetually overcome.

Why have we fallen so far from this truth? Because we have not been broken by our sin, our failures and instead have accepted our fate that we are only human, sighed and shrugged our shoulders in our acceptance of defeat.

It is time we believed again in the God who can keep us from falling, the one who delivered... past tense.... from the power of darkness, the one who declares that we are no longer in the fleshly nature and owe it nothing.

blessings,

Gideon

 

[Willing-heart]

I find that I have victory over sin in my life when I approach each day acknowledging how capable I am of sinning or falling into sin. I admit every single day that I’m capable of lust, vain imagination, deceit, stealing, cheating, and laziness. And by approaching each day by admitting my vulnerability to sin, I find that I am in a better position to guard my heart and live by all the applicable promises of God that He gave me in order to have strength and victory over sin.

Deal with Sin!

 

[RaymondG]

If any man sin, we have an advocate. It is not saying that any sin is okay, rather, we still live in the sinful flesh, wherein the sin nature still abides, but is to not have dominion....For sin shall not have dominion over you...

So you are telling Christians that they have to continue sinning....no way around it....but when you sin, you have an advocate therefore, dont worry about it. This is your message.....
Sin having no dominion means, to you, you have to continue sinning.....but it no longer affects you....you no longer have to worry about the sin anymore.

It sounds good.....and maybe you are right.... Would you mind if a few try to allow God to perfect them....Allow Him to remove sin from their mortal bodies? Or will you condemn and belittle all those who strive to this end?

Sinless perfection is unbiblical. Actually, to say that you cannot sin at all means that you have no more free moral agency...and the Holy Spirit has taken full control, and you have no way to say yes or no to God..which actually means you have reached full maturity and are like Christ in every fashion. No...not so. NO one can claim that, until they reach Glory.

Less that term is biblical....so why use it? Why not use the scripture only?

Why do you say then? shall we continue in Sin that Grace may abound? If so, tell me how so I can be able to go and sin some more, and still claim eternal life.

I too think it would be easier and simpler to be a Sinner saved by Grace and well as a Save Sinner. I just need more instruction on how to be a saved sinner.

 

[RaymondG]

It is good to know that you have reached perfection, and no longer need to grow in grace and the knowledge of the lord. Amen.

Thank you for speaking perfect into my life....it is much appreciated....

" (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were."

However, I of my own self can do nothing.....and without God it is impossible....but with God, nothing is impossible.......He can do all things......But I will consider thing things you say he cannot do in and for us.

 

[RaymondG]

You believe that there are a few that are made perfect?

I believe, therefore I know. Be it unto me as I believe, and unto you as you believe.

How many? Who are they? Where are they?

Time spent counting the righteous would be time better spent working out our own salvation. I aim to be like Jesus, not men that I believe are righteous......for mans righteousness cannot be transferred to me......but the righteousness of God, can.

In every church that I have ever attended.... there are very strong Christian people.... along with others all over the map of how mature they are in their walk with Christ and how strong they walk with God..

My words arent concerning any religion, church membership or church affliction. Only Truth, which transcends doctrines and religion.

ALL sin... every single one of them... I could follow any one of them around, no matter how passionate about Christ... and within no time... I could point out a sin.

It is true, that one who seeks, usually finds. Yet if one is the light....how can they see darkness? Try using a flashlight to point out a shadow, or darkness.....It just isnt possible. I aim to be that light, and I would encourage you to do the same. After God is done with us, when we walk in a room, Darkness will have to flee....before having a chance to be seen...

I admire your optimism, however, we all sin... It's just that those who are children of God... we continually strive not to.

What you call optimism, I call Faith in the power of God. I believe there is nothing impossible for Him. I believe there is no point in striving for a Goal the I believe impossible to reach.

You would not tell your children to strive for college, and afterward tell them it is impossible to reach that Goal. Why do you think Jesus would tell us to Be Ye perfect, and These things I do, you can do.....If He knew these were impossible feats?

Do I have too much faith in God? Would you like for me to decrease my faith....or will you allow me to continue to believe that there is nothing impossible for God.....and that every word He says is true?

 

[JacksBratt]

I believe, therefore I know. Be it unto me as I believe, and unto you as you believe.

I disagree with this view.... Just because you believe... does not make it truth.

Time spent counting the righteous would be time better spent working out our own salvation. I aim to be like Jesus, not men that I believe are righteous......for mans righteousness cannot be transferred to me......but the righteousness of God, can.

You think that I have no salvation? That's an arrogant assumption.

Do you consider yourself among these "few perfect people"?

My words arent concerning any religion, church membership or church affliction. Only Truth, which transcends doctrines and religion.

This doesn't even address my point. Not even in the least.. It's just wordage.... I think that today they call that a "nothing burger".

It is true, that one who seeks, usually finds. Yet if one is the light....how can they see darkness? Try using a flashlight to point out a shadow, or darkness.....It just isnt possible. I aim to be that light, and I would encourage you to do the same. After God is done with us, when we walk in a room, Darkness will have to flee....before having a chance to be seen...

What are you even talking about?

What you call optimism, I call Faith in the power of God. I believe there is nothing impossible for Him. I believe there is no point in striving for a Goal the I believe impossible to reach.

More verbiage...

You would not tell your children to strive for college, and afterward tell them it is impossible to reach that Goal. Why do you think Jesus would tell us to Be Ye perfect, and These things I do, you can do.....If He knew these were impossible feats?

Hey.. if you think that you live this life and don't sin... good for you.. I have never met someone like you........ever.... And I know a lot of very fine upstanding God fearing Christians that I hope, some day to be able to be called equal to... AND.... they still sin.

Do I have too much faith in God? Would you like for me to decrease my faith....or will you allow me to continue to believe that there is nothing impossible for God.....and that every word He says is true?

There is no such thing as too much faith... there is such a thing as being blind to your sins.