Is Struggling with sin normal?

[Jags]

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Absolutely. We are to overcome sin, which takes some struggling.

 

[alsughasoughaiuyfygh]

.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Darn straight it is. We're only human and we will struggle with sin every day of our lives. It will only be when we are in Heaven that we are unable to sin. Living a sinless life is pretty much impossible but we're still expected to resist our sinful nature lest we regress back to our darker selves.

Actually as we overcome sin we don't struggle as much.

 

[Sabertooth]

And the more we walk with God in obedience and get to know Him (in His Word), we start to adopt His point-of-view, seeing sin as He does. That helps a lot!

 

[Mountainmanbob]

wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

Yes but, we learn in time that it is always best
to turn away from sin -- sinning.

Mature christians know that there is a price to pay for sin and not only does it hurt us and grieve the Holy Spirit in us, it effects others also.

Turn -- Repent
Over and over and over and over and over again.

M-Bob

 

[ajcarey]

Yes, struggling with sin is normal- but there are some major qualifications to that statement.

Many struggle in the sense of sinning over and over and over again because they are still committed to their flesh and they will not really give in to God and surrender to Him that they might really be empowered to walk in Truth. They like the thought of victory over sin maybe, and maybe they make some efforts to strive against sin, but when provoked somehow they give in- because pleasing God and walking in Truth isn't their paramount goal.

On the other hand, regarding those who make pleasing God and walking in Truth their ultimate goal, their struggle against sin will be a generally victorious one- and they will grow closer to God and have greater insight into what true righteousness is, and as a result their struggle will be more advanced in ways the carnal don't really understand. It will not be a struggle where one keeps getting defeated and doing the same things and saying "woe is me" (the sorrow of the world).

And of course there are those who throw off all conviction and feel so justified in their sin that there isn't really a struggle at all- they just do what they feel and what they see as in their advantage without much strain of conscience (at least towards the true God) at all.

Only those in the middle category can properly be said to be walking in the Truth, following Christ, walking in the light, in the strait and narrow way that leads to life, led by God's Spirit, on the Highway of Holiness, in the grace of God, living by faith, etc, etc (all synonymous). This is easy to prove with Scripture when it is rightly divided.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Just remember that anyone who claims they don't struggle is in sin since they are a liar. If Jesus was tempted (but never gave in), then we have no hope of being 100% struggle free. Not that it is an excuse to give in of course.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

Yes it is. Paul's experience described in Romans 7 shows the struggles that we all have with the flesh. An unconverted person does not have any struggles with sin and his flesh because he is totally given over to sin and the flesh and it quite content to have sin dominate him. But the converted Christian has a new heart which is opposed to sin, but his flesh will not give up without a fight, and remains as a fifth column that looks for weaknesses in the Christian's armour to exploit.

 

[JIMINZ]

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

WOW, you sure got a lot of good advice, but the problem I see with all of it is, everything they have said keeps you as a Defeated Sinner because, you will always keep sinning as a Christian for the rest of your life.

Do you believe that is the lot of the Christian.

Didn't Paul say we were FREED from Sin?
By golly yes he did, right here.

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Being dead to sin is one of the most sure fired ways to keep from sinning that I have ever heard of.

Have you ever in all of your 19 yrs heard of a dead person sinning, anywhere at any time?

Did you know, John says that a person such as yourself, who is Born of God Cannot sin?

Why would John make such an outlandish statement like that, when everyone who has just given you good advice, said you will always sin until you die.

1 Jn. 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

John is giving the reason that someone Born Again Cannot sin, and the reason is because, the Seed of God (The Holy Spirit) Lives, Resides, Dwells inside of the Born Again Believer in Christ.

I guess John wasn't in Sunday School the Sunday it was taught a Born Again Christian would always sin.

John makes a point of using the term Born Again, just the same as Jesus did with Nicodemus, it's important that we understand what being Born Again of the Spirit actually means to and for the Believer.

Being Born Again means, we as Believers die to the Flesh through our Baptism and our Identification with Jesus' Crucifixion, and then our Identification with Jesus' Resurrection, at which time the Regeneration (Reanimation) takes place.

Through this process of Baptism and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we become the Born Again Children of God.

Rom. 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 6:6-11
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom. 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Ok, at this point, we have established.
1) We are Dead to Sin.
2) We Cannot Sin.
3) The Holy Spirit of God in us keeps us from Sin.
4) We are the Born Again Children of God.
5) We are alive in Christ and Live unto God.
6) God through Jesus Christ Condemned Sin in the Flesh.
7) We walk not after the Flesh, but in Newness of Life after the Spirit.

Any Believer who does not know nor believe they are Dead in Christ, have died to the Flesh, and being the Born Again Children of God with the Holy Spirit living within them, does not know, nor understand just where it is they
"STAND IN CHRIST," we do not stand in our own power, but through the Power of God and the Holy Spirit which resides within us.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

WOW, you sure got a lot of good advice, but the problem I see with all of it is, everything they have said keeps you as a Defeated Sinner because, you will always keep sinning as a Christian for the rest of your life.

Do you believe that is the lot of the Christian.

Didn't Paul say we were FREED from Sin?
By golly yes he did, right here.

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Being dead to sin is one of the most sure fired ways to keep from sinning that I have ever heard of.

Have you ever in all of your 19 yrs heard of a dead person sinning, anywhere at any time?

Did you know, John says that a person such as yourself, who is Born of God Cannot sin?

Why would John make such an outlandish statement like that, when everyone who has just given you good advice, said you will always sin until you die.

1 Jn. 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

John is giving the reason that someone Born Again Cannot sin, and the reason is because, the Seed of God (The Holy Spirit) Lives, Resides, Dwells inside of the Born Again Believer in Christ.

I guess John wasn't in Sunday School the Sunday it was taught a Born Again Christian would always sin.

John makes a point of using the term Born Again, just the same as Jesus did with Nicodemus, it's important that we understand what being Born Again of the Spirit actually means to and for the Believer.

Being Born Again means, we as Believers die to the Flesh through our Baptism and our Identification with Jesus' Crucifixion, and then our Identification with Jesus' Resurrection, at which time the Regeneration (Reanimation) takes place.

Through this process of Baptism and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we become the Born Again Children of God.

Rom. 6:5
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 6:6-11
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom. 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Ok, at this point, we have established.
1) We are Dead to Sin.
2) We Cannot Sin.
3) The Holy Spirit of God in us keeps us from Sin.
4) We are the Born Again Children of God.
5) We are alive in Christ and Live unto God.
6) God through Jesus Christ Condemned Sin in the Flesh.
7) We walk not after the Flesh, but in Newness of Life after the Spirit.

Any Believer who does not know nor believe they are Dead in Christ, have died to the Flesh, and being the Born Again Children of God with the Holy Spirit living within them, does not know, nor understand just where it is they
"STAND IN CHRIST," we do not stand in our own power, but through the Power of God and the Holy Spirit which resides within us.

Everything you say is correct in theory, but let me know when you have gained the full victory over your flesh in actual practice to the point where you don't have to use 1 John 1:9 again.

 

[D.A. Wright]

Darn straight it is. We're only human and we will struggle with sin every day of our lives. It will only be when we are in Heaven that we are unable to sin. Living a sinless life is pretty much impossible but we're still expected to resist our sinful nature lest we regress back to our darker selves.

Unable to sin? That's sounds a little odd. The Bible makes it clear that rebellion will not rise a second time. But the inabilility to sin sounds a bit like automaton behavior. Love is a choice.

 

[eleos1954]

Someone told me this a few days ago and iv been wondering if Struggling with sin is a normal thing as a christian.

Yes ... we all struggle with sin. The apostle Paul did as well ... personally I can really relate to what he is saying here.

Romans 7

Struggling with Sin

13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Certainly not! But in order that sin might be exposed as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law. 23But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

 

[crossnote]

Romans 7.

 

[renniks]

I used to go the churches where people claimed to have gotten to the point of sinlessness. I no longer believe it. Even is a person's actions are sinless, no one is 100 percent without sinful thoughts. And in fact, out worse sins are likely ones we are largely unaware of. I often don't recognize my own pride. It's completely possible for example, to be proud of your humility. I think the closer we get to God, the more we realize that we are more sinful than we thought. But, fortunately, the more willing we are to admit it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The voice of surrender says:
"I'm just a poor sinner, and nothing at all;
But Jesus Christ is my all in all!"

When we have this attitude, we stop navel gazing, being concerned about our own state and progress in holiness. Having our full trust in Christ enables the Holy Spirit to lead us according to His will. What gets in the way most of the time is self in its many forms. I have stopped worrying about myself, and am resting in being the person Jesus caused me to be, without striving to change myself into what I think is the person He wants me to be, and trusting in that if there is anything about me He doesn't like, He will change me.

"For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh" (Philippians 3:3).

 

[JIMINZ]

Everything you say is correct in theory, but let me know when you have gained the full victory over your flesh in actual practice to the point where you don't have to use 1 John 1:9 again.

Maybe when you finish your milk and begin eating the Meat of the word you will come to it.

It is only a Theory, if that is what you let it be, it will remain a Theory if you don't move into the Spiritual life which you have been Re-Born to inhabit.

Why would Jesus have called it being Born Again of the Spirit, if you remain in the Old Flesh.

Born Again, Newness of Life, these aren't just cool sounding Terms, they are our New Reality, if you do not take up residence in this New Spiritual Reality, you will continue to dwell in your Old Physical, Fleshly Reality (Realm).

2 Cor. 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

There is a point out there where everything makes sense, but you have to really believe what the Scripture says, it's a Spiritual thing, it's only Spiritually understood and Spiritually experienced, if you don't know these things your not there yet, your still looking at things as your OLD MAN has always seen and understood them to be.

To put it simply "Your Mind has not been renewed as of yet" it's a mind set of understanding and you are still Living, Thinking and Believing in the Physical, Fleshly mind set, YES, you can have received Salvation, you can have been Baptized, (which is where you become Born Again of the Spirit) but, if you do not accept the New Birth as just that, (A New Birth) one in which you have passed from Death INTO Life, then you have really and truly not accepted being Renewed, Regenerated by the Holy Spirit unto Newness of Life in the Spirit,

Eph. 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Walking in the Spirit as Paul says we should,

Gal. 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal. 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

This isn't some suggestion from Paul, it's the reality of your New existence this is not something we choose to do, it is actually our New Life experience.

Paul is saying these things in order to get these Believers to move out of where they have always lived, (In the Flesh) to living where they are now, In the Spirit, this is basically what I am explaining to you now.


Col. 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

2 Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Paul then says here that SIN HAS been Destroyed,..... why, how?

Rom 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin,
condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Did you get that?
Paul said, "Sin in the Flesh" has been (Condemned - Destroyed - Overcome)
and the Righteousness of the Law has been FULFILLED in those who Believe, therefore, Sin itself has been Overcome as well, for us who are IN Christ Jesus.


THEREFORE:

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Walking in the Spirit, is not something you choose to do, it's something you have already chosen to do when you Believed in Christ and were Baptized INTO Him.

I will answer you 1 John 1:9 comment in a separate post.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Maybe when you finish your milk and begin eating the Meat of the word you will come to it.

It is only a Theory, if that is what you let it be, it will remain a Theory if you don't move into the Spiritual life which you have been Re-Born to inhabit.

Why would Jesus have called it being Born Again of the Spirit, if you remain in the Old Flesh.

Born Again, Newness of Life, these aren't just cool sounding Terms, they are our New Reality, if you do not take up residence in this New Spiritual Reality, you will continue to dwell in your Old Physical, Fleshly Reality (Realm).

2 Cor. 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

There is a point out there where everything makes sense, but you have to really believe what the Scripture says, it's a Spiritual thing, it's only Spiritually understood and Spiritually experienced, if you don't know these things your not there yet, your still looking at things as your OLD MAN has always seen and understood them to be.

To put it simply "Your Mind has not been renewed as of yet" it's a mind set of understanding and you are still Living, Thinking and Believing in the Physical, Fleshly mind set, YES, you can have received Salvation, you can have been Baptized, (which is where you become Born Again of the Spirit) but, if you do not accept the New Birth as just that, (A New Birth) one in which you have passed from Death INTO Life, then you have really and truly not accepted being Renewed, Regenerated by the Holy Spirit unto Newness of Life in the Spirit,

Eph. 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Walking in the Spirit as Paul says we should,

Gal. 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal. 5:25
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

This isn't some suggestion from Paul, it's the reality of your New existence this is not something we choose to do, it is actually our New Life experience.

Paul is saying these things in order to get these Believers to move out of where they have always lived, (In the Flesh) to living where they are now, In the Spirit, this is basically what I am explaining to you now.


Col. 2:6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

2 Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Rom. 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Paul then says here that SIN HAS been Destroyed,..... why, how?

Rom 8:3,4
3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin,
condemned sin in the flesh:
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Did you get that?
Paul said, "Sin in the Flesh" has been (Condemned - Destroyed - Overcome)
and the Righteousness of the Law has been FULFILLED in those who Believe, therefore, Sin itself has been Overcome as well, for us who are IN Christ Jesus.


THEREFORE:

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Walking in the Spirit, is not something you choose to do, it's something you have already chosen to do when you Believed in Christ and were Baptized INTO Him.

I will answer you 1 John 1:9 comment in a separate post.

You can talk the talk, and in theory you are correct. Now, what those closest to you need to see is you being able to work out what you are saying, in practice. Talk is cheap, but being able to work it out in practice is much more difficult.

Just one minor breach of God's moral law causes your righteousness to fall below that of the Pharisees, and Jesus said that our righteousness needs to exceed that of the Pharisees, whose observance of God's moral law was far superior to our own. Just one little slip of impatience, anger, lust (just looking at a woman) causes one to absolutely fail in righteousness. This is because anyone who chooses to live by God's moral law is required to comply with it absolutely without one breach, however minor; otherwise they will be judged by the law they are trying to follow.

We can't have faith in Christ and in our own performance at the same time. This is not justifying faith. Justifying faith is faith in Christ alone and seeing our own performance in holiness as smelling dung in relation to the righteousness of Christ that has been bestowed on us as a free gift.

 

[JIMINZ]

The voice of surrender says:
"I'm just a poor sinner, and nothing at all;
But Jesus Christ is my all in all!"

When we have this attitude, we stop navel gazing, being concerned about our own state and progress in holiness. Having our full trust in Christ enables the Holy Spirit to lead us according to His will. What gets in the way most of the time is self in its many forms. I have stopped worrying about myself, and am resting in being the person Jesus caused me to be, without striving to change myself into what I think is the person He wants me to be, and trusting in that if there is anything about me He doesn't like, He will change me.

"For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh" (Philippians 3:3).

From what you just said you Talk a good Walk, but form what you have also said you really don't believe what the Scripture you just quoted says.

"and put no confidence in the flesh" (Philippians 3:3)

You believe, as a Born Again Believer in Christ Jesus you can still sin, if that isn't confidence in the Flesh I don't know what would be.

Rom. 6:7
For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Do you consider yourself to be Dead to the Flesh, this would be having no confidence in the Flesh.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

From what you just said you Talk a good Walk, but form what you have also said you really don't believe what the Scripture you just quoted says.

"and put no confidence in the flesh" (Philippians 3:3)

You believe, as a Born Again Believer in Christ Jesus you can still sin, if that isn't confidence in the Flesh I don't know what would be.

When you reach that totally sinless state in the way you conduct yourself then let me know your secret. But don't go telling me that you have reached this state by "faith", because that state does not exist. What I am talking about is how you behave in practical ways. In actual fact, those who are closest to you in your family will be the best judge of whether you have reached that highly exalted state of being sinlessly perfect.

If you have not reached that state, then you are still a sinner, because you are falling short of the perfection required by God's moral law.