Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas?

[GoingByzantine]

"Let us then, men and brethren, with all energy act the part of soldiers, in accordance with His holy commandments. Let us consider those who serve under our generals, with what order, obedience, and submissiveness they perform the things which are commanded them. All are not prefects, nor commanders of a thousand, nor of a hundred, nor of fifty, nor the like, but each one in his own rank performs the things commanded by the king and the generals. The great cannot subsist without the small, nor the small without the great. There is a kind of mixture in all things, and thence arises mutual advantage. Let us take our body for an example. The head is nothing without the feet, and the feet are nothing without the head; yea, the very smallest members of our body are necessary and useful to the whole body. But all work harmoniously together, and are under one common rule for the preservation of the whole body."(1st Epistle of Clement, xxxvii)​

There can be no agreement without unity of the faithful.

A army without leadership is disorganized and lost, in time it will only fracture more and more. Though the army has great tools, it lacks cohesion and strategy without firm leadership.

A general without an army is just a man, he might have great ideas and a solid education, but he alone cannot win a war. A general who ostracizes his army must make amends, but if he waits to long the army will not want to come back.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Because the men in your assembly are somehow better than everyone else right? Where do you come up with this stuff?

The men placed in authority by the Holy Spirit in communion with the Pope, also placed in authority by the Holy Spirit, yes. Better than you and me, yes, they are. Why? Because Jesus promised them the Paraclete to guide them in ALL TRUTH. Scripture, that's where THEY come up with it.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

The men placed in authority by the Holy Spirit in communion with the Pope, also placed in authority by the Holy Spirit, yes. Better than you and me, yes, they are. Why? Because Jesus promised them the Paraclete to guide them in ALL TRUTH. Scripture, that's where THEY come up with it.

At least you're honest brother.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Because Jesus promised them the Paraclete to guide them in ALL TRUTH.

List for us all the names of these men you are talking about.... then, please, quote Jesus. Quote Him, verbatim, as He mentions each of those names - and what He promised to THEM.


To guide is not to follow. You are confusing two ENTIRELY different things. Read Genesis Chapter 3? Just because God LEADS doesn't mandate that there is one who infallibly follows - the one with the biggest ego to claim for self alone that self alone is that ONE mandated follower.....


Back to the issue of this thread..... see the opening post.




- Josiah

 

[ThatTrueLight]

So there's the reason, they're just better men than all the other men on earth.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Yes, I too would like to know the names of the men who are better than all other men.

 

[GoingByzantine]

It is true! God the father appointed his son Jesus to save the world, and Jesus appointed the Apostles to continue his saving message.

 

[ThatTrueLight]

It is true! God the father appointed his son Jesus to save the world, and Jesus appointed the Apostles to continue his saving message.

You mean the twelve Apostles of the Lamb along with the Apostle to the Gentiles?

If so, I would agree, that is the foundation which the church of God is built upon.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

It is true! God the father appointed his son Jesus to save the world, and Jesus appointed the Apostles to continue his saving message.

I agree.... but I don't hold this is instead to a singular, specific, particular, unique, individual denomination (RCC, LDS, WELS, UPC or ANY other). And I don't agree that this mandates that Jesus (and thus all 12-14 Apostles and all who knew them) ergo taught a bunch of Dogmas that the Holy Spirit forgot to include in His Holy Scriptures to us (or in His divine wisdom chose not to) but that one denomination somehow "knows" (but only it). Nor do I think this means that ergo one denomination is exempt from accountability, truthfulness, responsbility if the self same so claims for the self same uniquely. I see your post as pastoral, missional - not denominational or as an exemption of responsibility or accountability.


But back to the issue of this thread....


A blessed Holy Week to you and yours....


- Josiah

 

[fhansen]

all the more reason not to add Dogmas to that equation.

Dogmas are nothing more than stated beliefs. From the creeds through the councils they're meant to alleviate confusion where it exists-and they've accomplished that.

 

[Souldier]

Dogmas are nothing more than stated beliefs. From the creeds through the councils they're meant to alleviate confusion where it exists-and they've accomplished that.

From what i understand there is nothing in the creed which is not also found in scripture. The OP mentioned super important things that are not found in scripture. Im just sticking with the topic.

 

[GoingByzantine]

You mean the twelve Apostles of the Lamb along with the Apostle to the Gentiles?

If so, I would agree, that is the foundation which the church of God is built upon.

Only the successors of the apostles have the same authority that they did. As Jesus commissioned the apostles, so too did the Apostles commission their successors.

Acts 14:21-23
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” 23 So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Scripture tells us that the spirit dwells in all of us, but the bishops/elders of our great faith are those that Christ appointed and their appointed successors. The bible does not saith that a common man can lead the flock without appointment.

I will now respectfully listen to counter arguments.

-GB

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

From what i understand there is nothing in the creed which is not also found in scripture. The OP mentioned super important things that are not found in scripture. Im just sticking with the topic.

And blessed are you for it,

Reps coming your way...



- Josiah

 

[ThatTrueLight]

Only the successors of the apostles have the same authority that they did. As Jesus commissioned the apostles, so too did the Apostles commission their successors.

Acts 14:21-23
21 And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.” 23 So when they had appointed elders in every church, and prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Scripture tells us that the spirit dwells in all of us, but the bishops/elders of our great faith are those that Christ appointed and their appointed successors. The bible does not saith that a common man can lead the flock without appointment.

I will now respectfully listen to counter arguments.

-GB

So now Elders are Apostles?

You are aware that there are twelve Apostles of the Lamb and one Apostle to the Gentiles, are you not?

There's a reason that they are called the foundation of the church of God. The foundation does not continue, it is built upon.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Only the successors of the apostles have the same authority that they did.

1. First define "authority." Does it include some unmitigated power to exempt self from accountability, responsibility, truth? Does it include some unmitigated power to invent dogma?

2. Please quote Jesus where He states that each of the 12-14 Apostles could "re-gift" this.... and that the SAME "authority" (see point #1) goes to them.


Then perhaps we can discuss the singular subject of this thread?


Blessings!


- Josiah

 

[Souldier]

And blessed are you for it,

Reps coming your way...



- Josiah

Cool, thanks.

 

[BobRyan]

1. First define "authority." Does it include some unmitigated power to exempt self from accountability, responsibility, truth? Does it include some unmitigated power to invent dogma?

2. Please quote Jesus where He states that each of the 12-14 Apostles could "re-gift" this.... and that the SAME "authority" (see point #1) goes to them.


Then perhaps we can discuss the singular subject of this thread?


Blessings!


- Josiah

There is only 1 example of approval for apostolic succession in the NT - and that is for Judas in Acts 1.

When James dies -- (James who was the head of the church until that time) - no apostolic succession.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

I agree. I just think that there are things we will not know and thats where faith comes in. We walk by faith not sight. We don't know what heaven will look like exactly, for example, but we walk by faith that it will be better than this world because we do know that much about it. We walk by faith not sight as paul teaches us. I happen to think that the path of faith in following Christ is much simpler than denomination make it to be. I happen to think that we can learn by ourself all that is needed. I think we can help each other learn but i dont think we need a Pope, an apostle, or a denomination. I think the Lord guides us and we can learn from each other, we will know the voice of truth, the masters voice when we hear it, if we are sincerely seeking Him.

All of that is true - our understanding of truth is ever unfolding.

However the Bible says not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together so we should try to become a member of some local congregation.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[GoingByzantine]

1. First define "authority." Does it include some unmitigated power to exempt self from accountability, responsibility, truth? Does it include some unmitigated power to invent dogma?

2. Please quote Jesus where He states that each of the 12-14 Apostles could "re-gift" this.... and that the SAME "authority" (see point #1) goes to them.


Then perhaps we can discuss the singular subject of this thread?


Blessings!


- Josiah

All authority was granted to Christ, who granted his authority to his apostles. That authority was to teach the gospel, to teach truth, and to build and maintain a church of all nations.

In Matthew 28, Jesus commanded his apostles to do his will. After that point, the epistles and Acts make it clear that the Apostles were appointing their successors, hence continuing the command of Christ.

 

[Souldier]

All of that is true - our understanding of truth is ever unfolding.

However the Bible says not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together so we should try to become a member of some local congregation.

in Christ,

Bob

I cannot be a member of a Church. I choose to see blessing in it however. I honestly think God can take strange situations and use them to shine his light. The bulk of my comments in GT today are not about avoiding Church but instead about finding liberty in the spirit. I am blessed despite my limitations and my circumstances. I guess i'll need to be joyful regardless of how im perceived. As a matter of fact my heart is joyful now, i think the Lord has brought me far, and when i see it i am joyful.