Is Paul right about singles.

[bèlla]

I've read churches prefer married pastors to avoid impropriety and dating within the congregation.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[ThisIsMe123]

What I find interesting about this, is that you don't see too many single pastors or elders. That could be simply because most people marry but I get the vibe that in most churches they would not want a single pastor. First, they say a single pastor could not relate to all the married couples and families. Second, they say the potential for single women in the church wanting to date the pastor could lead to problems.

However, if we believe Paul then a single pastor should not be an issue. If he feels called to remain single to have more time for the ministry, what's wrong with that? Even if he's not married, he still knows what the Bible says about marriage and can lean on married elders to help out when he needs to deal with a marriage related issue. As for the single pastor dating, it depends on whether he wants to or not. If he feels called to remain single, then it's not an issue. If he doesn't then he will just have to handle it in a mature way.

In my church I've noticed the college and career group is always led by a young couple. I suppose the elders think a young couple can model marriage for these young adults but were single not that long ago that they forgot what it's like. They probably also worry about a single leader dating from within the group. No matter how you look at it though, I see a bias against singles ministering unless it's to children or maybe high school. In many of our churches I suspect Paul would not have been hired to be the pastor!

Something seems off there...

I have often wondered if this is an action un-Christian-like in nature when they avoid such things? Yes, I have noticed that married couples would even lead singles groups, sadly. It's weird. Hypocritical even (if that's the right word?)

Did this kind of thing exist in the old days? Like 1940s?

I think this is why you'll rarely ever seen actual unattached people meeting in churches, and just hitting the online dating apps or just out and about in public. Usually finding those to marry that are matched up when it comes to interests and character as opposed to Christian-likedness.

It is ironic, as I had people tell me "the best place to meet someone is in church"'...now it's simply avoided altogether, even discouraged by the actual church staff.

You could say they are the enablers of single people matching up with people that aren't matched up with them in Christian beliefs.

IF they want people to marry other actual CHRISTIAN behaving singles, they better encourage singles groups. But that's never going to happen.

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

I have often wondered if this is an action un-Christian-like in nature when they avoid such things? Yes, I have noticed that married couples would even lead singles groups, sadly. It's weird. Hypocritical even (if that's the right word?)

Did this kind of thing exist in the old days? Like 1940s?

I think this is why you'll rarely ever seen actual unattached people meeting in churches, and just hitting the online dating apps or just out and about in public. Usually finding those to marry that are matched up when it comes to interests and character as opposed to Christian-likedness.

It is ironic, as I had people tell me "the best place to meet someone is in church"'...now it's simply avoided altogether, even discouraged by the actual church staff.

You could say they are the enablers of single people matching up with people that aren't matched up with them in Christian beliefs.

IF they want people to marry other actual CHRISTIAN behaving singles, they better encourage singles groups. But that's never going to happen.

Sometimes I think the church views singleness as a stage to be overcome quickly. It's a necessary evil between adolescence and marriage. Singles are a problem for the church. They don't want to encourage it as they want us all to marry. They don't want a ministry to become a dating club so they worry singles groups might devolve into that. They want married pastors, married elders, married group leaders so singles are kind of in limbo until they get married. They don't quite fit in anywhere.

On the other hand, if you are single, your home church might not have enough other singles for you to find a good match. You might need a bigger pool of single Christians. Many years ago, when I lived near Sacramento, California, there was a ministry called "Friday Night Singles" that was open to Christian singles from any church. They put on weekly events to allow singles to meet and fellowship together. Such things are not common. You might find a local MeetUp group but in my experience they are not common. It does tend to force single Christians to have to use dating apps to meet.

 

[bèlla]

The church isn't enabling anyone to pursue unbelievers. Those who knowingly date unsaved prospects are willfully sinning and entered the relationship of their own volition.

There are significant reasons why pairing in today's culture is harder than it was before:

• Women entered the workforce and aren't dependent on men for financial sustenance.
  
• The rising divorce rate made some reluctant to marry.
• Men and women are more selective than before.
• Global connection expanded the dating pool.
• Church attendance is lower.
• Men and women no longer view the church as a source for friendships or companions. They look elsewhere.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[ThisIsMe123]

The church isn't enabling anyone to pursue unbelievers. Those who knowingly date unsaved prospects are willfully sinning and entered the relationship of their own volition.

There are significant reasons why pairing in today's culture is harder than it was before:

• Women entered the workforce and aren't dependent on men for financial sustenance.
  
• The rising divorce rate made some reluctant to marry.
• Men and women are more selective than before.
• Global connection expanded the dating pool.
• Church attendance is lower.
• Men and women no longer view the church as a source for friendships or companions. They look elsewhere.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

Ditto on that last bullet point. Agreed on not even a FRIENDSHIP is considered... It's sad that it's that way, as in the "good ol days", church was all about community and actual fellowship. It mostly centered around church functions outside of just the Sunday gathering. Just think of the Norman Rockwell moment. lol

Now, it's mostly families that hit the church for an hour on Sunday, and scurry home, not even mingling afterwards.

People see dating anyone in church as dating a co-worker. A social taboo. So what's a Christian single to do if they aren't meeting singles in church? It's become ironic almost.

So why is it that people prefer to keep their social circles separate? I recall a woman turning me down because we were in the same "circles", but...I wouldn't let that stop me. She said, "Too much drama" and I said, "I'm drama free! lol" It was weird, as I hadn' t been in touch with our friends for a good long while.

It's like people prefer to meet as COMPLETE strangers for the purpose of romantic coupling...with no building of famliarity whatsoever. I mean, do I have to start hitting on women in grocery or bookstores like my parents did? lol

 

[Tony B]

There’s no reason that a single person can’t serve as an elder in the church, or as a deacon. But I would only allow a single person to provide support to other elders or deacons, and never to a member of the opposite gender or to children.

The reason why most elders are married men and are required to be monogamists, is that they and their wives have been trained up by God and wizened by the experiences of life and from bringing up a family, and are focussed on making sure their family unit functions in a godly way. Therefore they are likely to be sensitive to the difficulties that the members of the church they care for may be contending with, and can offer advice based on their own experiences and their understanding of God’s ways. In order to serve the flock they are caring for, they will need to be hospitable and have a home where the members of the church can come and visit.

Whether they are married or unmarried, I would not normally allow a male to give direct support to a lady, or a group of ladies in the church, and vice versa, nor would I allow an adult to have singular contact with children.

Shalom, Tony B.

 

[bèlla]

Ditto on that last bullet point. Agreed on not even a FRIENDSHIP is considered... It's sad that it's that way, as in the "good ol days", church was all about community and actual fellowship. It mostly centered around church functions outside of just the Sunday gathering. Just think of the Norman Rockwell moment. lol

TIM,

I suspect that's a Protestant thing. I was raised in the Catholic church and we didn't spend our free time with church members. I didn't have friends at church save those I knew from school. Nor did my mother and her siblings when they were younger.

My grandparents vetted their connections and created a social club with like-minded parents. They had outings and their children played together. They were never told they had to befriend everyone and nor were we. We excel in communication and making new acquaintances in spite of our upbringing.

Now, it's mostly families that hit the church for an hour on Sunday, and scurry home, not even mingling afterwards.

Sunday is probably the lone day of rest families have. Most are working during the week and running errands on the weekend. They don't have the luxury of hanging around chit-chatting when chores, homework, and dinner duties await them at home.

People see dating anyone in church as dating a co-worker. A social taboo. So what's a Christian single to do if they aren't meeting singles in church? It's become ironic almost.

I view church as a place of worship. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make friends or marry. But you can obsess over it too. The cultural shift is more likely to affect introverts more than others.

So why is it that people prefer to keep their social circles separate? I recall a woman turning me down because we were in the same "circles", but...I wouldn't let that stop me. She said, "Too much drama" and I said, "I'm drama free! lol" It was weird, as I hadn' t been in touch with our friends for a good long while.

They don't want to deal with the baggage or fallout of failed connections. I kept my social life separate from work and home. They're constants and I didn't want the drama. Endings can be messy and I value my peace of mind.

It's like people prefer to meet as COMPLETE strangers for the purpose of romantic coupling...with no building of famliarity whatsoever. I mean, do I have to start hitting on women in grocery or bookstores like my parents did? lol

We're all strangers at some point. You don't know co-workers, schoolmates, etc. That's a part of life. A desire for familiarity is fine but it isn't a necessity for most. The world won't conform to our whims. We adapt or go without.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[ThisIsMe123]

TIM,

I suspect that's a Protestant thing. I was raised in the Catholic church and we didn't spend our free time with church members. I didn't have friends at church save those I knew from school. Nor did my mother and her siblings when they were younger.

My grandparents vetted their connections and created a social club with like-minded parents. They had outings and their children played together. They were never told they had to befriend everyone and nor were we. We excel in communication and making new acquaintances in spite of our upbringing.



Sunday is probably the lone day of rest families have. Most are working during the week and running errands on the weekend. They don't have the luxury of hanging around chit-chatting when chores, homework, and dinner duties await them at home.



I view church as a place of worship. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make friends or marry. But you can obsess over it too. The cultural shift is more likely to affect introverts more than others.



They don't want to deal with the baggage or fallout of failed connections. I kept my social life separate from work and home. They're constants and I didn't want the drama. Endings can be messy and I value my peace of mind.



We're all strangers at some point. You don't know co-workers, schoolmates, etc. That's a part of life. A desire for familiarity is fine but it isn't a necessity for most. The world won't conform to our whims. We adapt or go without.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

OTOH, where I live...people who work together have wound up dating and have gotten married. Deputies have married each other. I knew people that worked in the same building that met, dated, and married via their work place...so...it can happen. I knew a secretary that married a mechanic of the same company.
And another couple of the same company as well that are in a relationship. Sometimes...you just hit it off.

However, this may have to do with the more small town mentality, where opportunities to meet other singles are quite limited. I mean, if all your social connections were via the people of your workplace, it wouldn't be a total shocker to wind up dating someone from your workplace.

I CAN see why how work would be a problem...IF it didn't work out though. But going back to that social circle thing...I call malarky on that. In fact, that's probably the most common way I have known to people have met, dated and got married. Many people I've asked about how they met, they'd say "through friends". Like at a local BBQ mixer or pool party or whatever.

It seems people are just coming up with reasons NOT to date anyone, it's rather sad.

"I don't want to meet people in the grocery store, I'm just there to shop and get out" "I don't date people at the gym, I'm there to work out". It's very limiting. Of course, it may be a lie to that particular individual they aren't attracted to...so there's that, obviously".

For every reason that someone won't date in an environment to the above stated reasons, I can give you many a situations where it had turned out in favor of a coupling up.

Yet, my mom met my dad at the beach, he struck up a conversation with her...and the rest was history. I'm sure you've have friends and relatives that have met in ways that single people tend to reject (now). So I'm like "WEll, you say that NOW...but, you may be whistling a different tune should someone you click with walks into your life. ;-)

 

[Tony B]

Ditto on that last bullet point. Agreed on not even a FRIENDSHIP is considered... It's sad that it's that way, as in the "good ol days", church was all about community and actual fellowship. It mostly centered around church functions outside of just the Sunday gathering. Just think of the Norman Rockwell moment. lol

Now, it's mostly families that hit the church for an hour on Sunday, and scurry home, not even mingling afterwards.

Yes, I agree. Indeed, in my opinion (and I believe I am in The Spirit in saying this), the present model of church unity (that’s a contradiction in terms!) and worship services as necessary for spiritual development and fellowship have been absolute disasters. To come to that conclusion all we need to do is review some of the current products.

As a Systems Analyst I went into organisations to evaluate their current systems and recommend and make improvements. Some of that required the application of Business Analysis skills too, assessing whether or not their current systems were helping them achieve their business goals or not.

If I was called into the current church system to rate it for efficiency and productivity, I would give it a poor mark!

We need to return the church to its fellowship roots. Not only will there be a vast improvement to Christian outcomes, but society would benefit too.

I don’t believe that God is impressed by our so-called worship services anywhere near as much as we think He is.

There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that the advent of church factions and the dependence on a worship service and other formal meetings, as necessary to promote spiritual development and Christlike character within its members, have been dismal failures.

 

[bèlla]

OTOH, where I live...people who work together have wound up dating and have gotten married.

TIM,

You live in a small town. I live in a city with millions of residents. There's no comparison between the two.

It seems people are just coming up with reasons NOT to date anyone, it's rather sad.

Sad to whom?

So I'm like "WEll, you say that NOW...but, you may be whistling a different tune should someone you click with walks into your life. ;-)

Being single doesn't entitle anyone to consideration or accommodation for their singleness. You can't force churchgoers to consider someone because they're lonely and want to marry. God doesn't twist our arms.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

Yes, I agree. Indeed, in my opinion (and I believe I am in The Spirit in saying this), the present model of church unity (that’s a contradiction in terms!) and worship services as necessary for spiritual development and fellowship have been absolute disasters. To come to that conclusion all we need to do is review some of the current products.

As a Systems Analyst I went into organisations to evaluate their current systems and recommend and make improvements. Some of that required the application of Business Analysis skills too, assessing whether or not their current systems were helping them achieve their business goals or not.

If I was called into the current church system to rate it for efficiency and productivity, I would give it a poor mark!

We need to return the church to its fellowship roots. Not only will there be a vast improvement to Christian outcomes, but society would benefit too.

I don’t believe that God is impressed by our so-called worship services anywhere near as much as we think He is.

There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind that the advent of church factions and the dependence on a worship service and other formal meetings, as necessary to promote spiritual development and Christlike character within its members, have been dismal failures.

A trend I have seen are the creation of "support groups" in churches. Generally these are fellowship groups that may have a minor Bible study and prayer time but mostly exist to form relationships and promote fellowship within the body in a small group setting. Some churches call them "Life Groups." If you want pure Bible study then they have classes at church. My church has lots of these small groups. Some are men or women only. Some are for married couples. Most are mixed.

I see that as an attempt to promote fellowship within the church. Small groups where people can really get to know each other. Probably not good for meeting a potential mate due to their small size.

I believe the purpose of the worship service is to corporately worship God and preach the word. While fellowship can and does happen there, that is not the primary focus. Fellowship should mostly happen outside of the worship service.

Times have changed. People are busy these days. They rush home from church to move onto the next activity. Sunday is no longer a day of rest and fellowship. I am a bad example. I am out the back door before the service even ends. I don't go to small groups. I have social anxiety. When I was married, I would throw my bicycle in the back of the family van. When church was over I would quickly change clothes and start the 30 mile ride home while my wife and kids stayed for an hour plus talking. I enjoyed the ride home and they got to talk to their hearts content.

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

TIM,

You live in a small town. I live in a city with millions of residents. There's no comparison between the two.



Sad to whom?



Being single doesn't entitle anyone to consideration or accommodation for their singleness. You can't force churchgoers to consider someone because they're lonely and want to marry. God doesn't twist our arms.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

I met a pastor of a "family centric" church in Washington. He strongly believed it was vital to transition from singleness to marriage relatively quickly lest you stray without the accountability of family and get too used to being selfish. He was singles putting off marriage as a bad thing. I felt his focus was too much on marriage and family. I suggested one's marital state was not as important as spiritual growth. Serving the Lord, regardless of marital state, was the most important thing. Don't make singles feel as though they are incomplete or in risk of straying because they are unmarried.

 

[bèlla]

Oftentimes fellowship involves study or another form of learning and most people have enough on their plate. I don't need another class! Connecting with Christians pursuing similar aims has been helpful. We support and encourage one another and feel comfortable sharing openly. Sometimes the right ones aren't in your backyard. That's been my experience.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

Oftentimes fellowship involves study or another form of learning and most people have enough on their plate. I don't need another class! Connecting with Christians pursuing similar aims has been helpful. We support and encourage one another and feel comfortable sharing openly. Sometimes the right ones aren't in your backyard. That's been my experience.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

What I need is a totally online church! All fellowship is electronic. That would be right up my alley

 

[bèlla]

I believe the purpose of the worship service is to corporately worship God and preach the word. While fellowship can and does happen there, that is not the primary focus. Fellowship should mostly happen outside of the worship service.

NUAG,

I agree. Don't be side eyeing or trying to sit next to me in worship.

It took a LONG time to find the right connections. Married women who wouldn't exhaust my ears about their marriages or singles who wouldn't obsess about being married. The key was going outside the church. We have a lot in common. Faith is the cherry on top. It wasn't the lone thing we shared and that made a difference.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[dayhiker]

So I just listened to a guy on YouTube going over a study that said 50% of singles have no desire to marry and even stranger this 50% are not even looking for a date! He rattled off a number of reasons. From men and women don't really need each other today to selfishness as stated above. An other reason is that women have a lot of debt from college and are working to pay that off and have little energy to pursue relationships.

Personally, I did marriage and have no plan to fail at it again. SO I'm more than willing to be in a relationship with women and have long term relationships as long as 7, 8 and 12 years plus more casual relationships with a bunch of men and women. The commitment comes because we want to be with each other and we want to keep up with how the other person is doing and be there to help each other out if needed. This works so much better for me than the marriage escalator.

But I do have to give my church a lot of credit. We have an younger and an older adult ministry at my church. The older one I go to has anywhere from 60 to 100 people attend before Covid19. It is going completely against what other churches are doing as far as I hear.

 

[bèlla]

So I just listened to a guy on YouTube going over a study that said 50% of singles have no desire to marry and even stranger this 50% are not even looking for a date!

dayhiker,

Christian singles are more likely to define themselves by their singleness than unbelievers. They worry more and experience frequent periods of despondency. Singles attach more meaning to marriage and feel a sense of emptiness when the need is unmet.

You're more likely to encounter kid gloving in Christian circles. The elephant in the room is frequently ignored and you won't hear uncomfortable truths that may help you solve the problem. They don't want hurt anyone's feelings.

On the forum I frequented the atmosphere was different. We weren't enablers. If you presented a dilemma we responded accordingly. Sometimes that meant addressing poor behavior or tell the person they're tripping themselves up.

We didn't speak from supposition. We were in relationships or had recent experiences to draw from. That's important. When I see people weighing in with no experience with the opposite sex or who haven't reached first base in years I'm leery.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

dayhiker,

Christian singles are more likely to define themselves by their singleness than unbelievers. They worry more and experience frequent periods of despondency. Singles attach more meaning to marriage and feel a sense of emptiness when the need is unmet.

You're more likely to encounter kid gloving in Christian circles. The elephant in the room is frequently ignored and you won't hear uncomfortable truths that may help you solve the problem. They don't want hurt anyone's feelings.

On the forum I frequented the atmosphere was different. We weren't enablers. If you presented a dilemma we responded accordingly. Sometimes that meant addressing poor behavior or tell the person they're tripping themselves up.

We didn't speak from supposition. We were in relationships or had recent experiences to draw from. That's important. When I see people weighing in with no experience with the opposite sex or who haven't reached first base in years I'm leery.

Yours in His Service,

~Bella

Haven't reached first? What if we haven't left the on deck circle?

 

[bèlla]

Haven't reached first? What if we haven't left the on deck circle?

NUAG,

It is perfectly okay to share your experiences or lack thereof.

But there's a difference between recalling something that happened recently and an event which occurred eight years ago as if it were today. The dating market isn't stagnant and changes over time. What holds true in the past may be no longer relevant.

Yours in His Servant,

~Bella

 

[NotUrAvgGuy]

NUAG,

It is perfectly okay to share your experiences or lack thereof.

But there's a difference between recalling something that happened recently and an event which occurred eight years ago as if it were today. The dating market isn't stagnant and changes over time. What holds true in the past may be no longer relevant.

Yours in His Servant,

~Bella

I know. I was joking. I do rarely date though. I'm afraid I'm just too used to being alone. I can't come up with many things I want to do with another person. Hours of conversation is not my thing. I think I'd like more of an activity partner or someone to sit and watch movies with. Beyond that I do a lot of quiet things by myself. I would need to meet someone quiet and somewhat independent. Otherwise I don't think we'd click.