Is not believing in an eternal hell Heresy?

[Albion]

I looked for a smiley with it's tongue sticking out but they don't have that one. .

Sure they do.

 

[2ducklow]

Sure they do.

this one is better.

 

[2ducklow]

You didn't understand a thing that I explained to you, did you?

I've kinda forgot what the subject is. but then i was watching this interesting cop show today and about 2/3 of the way through I realized I had already seen it before.

I think we might have moved up to the 4th or 5th grade now.

 

[Ronald]

So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?

I do not believe in an eternal Hell, nor do I adhere to Annihilation (as it is currently understood) or Universalism. In the SDA denomination, annihilation involves soul sleep. Jehovah Witnesses believe the same. This had many implications, one of which is that we don't have an immaterial soul. They think the soul is the fleshly body that goes into the grave (Sheol). But Sheol is much more than a grave; it is the underworld. Many scriptures support this.
I believe the those who are Christians go directly to heaven and those who aren't go to Hades (which is not Hell), it is like a prison that holds criminals awaiting judgment day. The Abyss (or Bottomless Pit) holds a portion of demons who are locked up and held until they are released to wreck havoc during the Great Tribulation period.
Hell is the Lake of Fire and is more of an event than an eternal place. It is a physical place, not spiritual. Fire is fire and it burns things up. At the end of the Bible, Hades and death are thrown into the Lake of Fire and are destroyed.
Universalism teaches that everyone will be saved; therefore, party hardy, do what you want_ rape, pillage and plunder, it doesn't matter, we all get saved. Hogwash! Jesus would not have had to die for our sins. There are too many scriptures addressing judgment and the end of the age. The wages of sin is death and sin will be judged.

The key to understanding words like eternal, perish, destruction, and everlasting is to examine the Greek. Eternal is an English word and usually means without beginning or end. But it is derived from aion, aionios or aionion which have variable meanings according to how it's used. It can mean an age or ages, lifetime, generation(s),epoch of time, or world.
God, His domain and our salvation go forward into eternity. But this temporal world will have an end and if it is used to describe anything that is temporal, it cannot mean the same.
Everlasting should be translated as age-lasting or age-during which is not infinite.
We also know what the words perish or destroy mean: to put an end to, terminate, annihilate. Therefore a soul or spirit cannot be destroyed infinitely. There maybe a process of destruction, an extended time period, but an end is definite. It's like implying that there is an indestructible destruction or imperishable perishing.

When souls and spirits are thrown into the Lake of Fire (and this should mean Satan and his demonic horde as well), they will be destroyed and that is the true meaning of annihilation, not some temporary soul sleep.

How would God be glorified by sustaining souls being tormented in and eternal torture chamber by a mere 80 years or sinning or maybe even only 20 years? God's justice has been displayed throughout history and nowhere in the Bible do I see an eternal hell supported by this pillar of justice.

So, IMHO, you are not a heretic if you do not believe in an eternal hell. Hundreds of years ago, yes, but not now. Actually Martin Luther had a problem with accepting this doctrine. He might have included it in his 95 Thesis if it wasn't for Calvin telling him not to go there and leave it alone.
I don't agree with Calvins's TULIP either.

I devoted two chapters in my book, "Hell ... If I Know", to the nature of Hell. My avatar is actually the cover of my book.

 

[2ducklow]

Maybe some of them do mean that. If they called you "ridiculous" or "dead wrong" would you interpret that as meaning "You're not a Christian?" If so, why should such mistaken name-calling upset you so. But if we return to the thread here--and what the question it asks actually is--as opposed to speculating about what someone who might use THAT word is thinking--the answer is "No." It doesn't make you a non-Christian.


Yes, heretics, not non-Christians.

calling me a heretic cause I don't believe Jesus is God is just as slanderous as me calling you a moron for believing 3 is one. heretic is a word that's meant to insult and hurt, just like moron is.

 

[By Faith Alone]

calling me a heretic cause I don't believe Jesus is God is just as slanderous as me calling you a moron for believing 3 is one. heretic is a word that's meant to insult and hurt, just like moron is.

Do you believe the Bible?

 

[2ducklow]

Do you believe the Bible?

I don't believe in the spurious scriptures and interpolations of scriptures inserted to change the word of God. And that is the major proof that Jesus is God.

 

[By Faith Alone]

I don't believe in the spurious scriptures and interpolations of scriptures inserted to change the word of God. And that is the major proof that Jesus is God.

John 1:1, 14 and John chapters 14, 15 and 16. Anything spurious there ?

 

[shturt678s]

Do you believe the Bible?

Falsifying the Word of God dealing with faith, baptism, and repentance is obviously heresy, ie, a big part of "repentance" is Rom.3:18, "fear" construed with Matt.10:28, "afraid" thus removing forever and ever in torments is a big no no!

Can"t wait till you folks hit 74 or so, ie, being even implicitely called a moron, stupid, heretic, and etc. doesn't penetrate one's elephant skin except being called "late for dinner."

Old Jack that believes the context of translated Bible Texts.

Nothing spurious about Jesus = God, ie, even has a nice ring to it.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Falsifying the Word of God dealing with faith, baptism, and repentance is obviously heresy, ie, a big part of "repentance" is Rom.3:18, "fear" construed with Matt.10:28, "afraid" thus removing forever and ever in torments is a big no no!

Can"t wait till you folks hit 74 or so, ie, being even implicitely called a moron, stupid, heretic, and etc. doesn't penetrate one's elephant skin except being called "late for dinner."

Old Jack that believes the context of translated Bible Texts.

Ain't that far away from that! I've been around the world three or two times.

 

[Der Alte]

John 1:1, 14 and John chapters 14, 15 and 16. Anything spurious there ?

Don't mean to criticize but you omitted John 1:18, 12:36-41, 20:28.

 

[shturt678s]

Ain't that far away from that! I've been around the world three or two times.

I traveled outter island in Hawaii if that counts?

Hate that milage...need a new body.

Old Jack

 

[shturt678s]

Don't mean to criticize but you omitted John 1:18, 12:36-41, 20:28.

 

[2ducklow]

John 1:1, 14 and John chapters 14, 15 and 16. Anything spurious there ?

yes there is, most all Christians take the word to be the preincarnate Christ, thus they have changed the word of god that says 'the word was God' to 'the preincarnate Christ was God.' The word is a term for the word of God, not for any preincarnate Christ.

I believe the word was God means that God's words are god. and I take that meaning figuratively to mean the same sort of thing as saying "your words Faith Alone are you." IN other words God's words tell us everything about who and what God is. God is not his words, but his words do tell us who and what he is.

 

[Der Alte]

I traveled outter island in Hawaii if that counts?

Hate that milage...need a new body.

Old Jack

I too have been around the block a time or two. I learned to read when FDR was president and I remember VE and VJ days.

 

[shturt678s]

I too have been around the block a time or two. I learned to read when FDR was president and I remember VE and VJ days.

I received my MA in teaching using my G.I. Bill long ago, and consider you still one of my profs. I know this won't go to your head so don't mind encouraging you.

The only complaint I have is I have to keep buying note pads and pens and printer ink.

Old Jack still taking notes.

 

[Der Alte]

I received my MA in teaching using my G.I. Bill long ago, and consider you still one of my profs. I know this won't go to your head so don't mind encouraging you.

The only complaint I have is I have to keep buying note pads and pens and printer ink.

Old Jack still taking notes.

Thanx mucho. I used my GI bill more than 3 decades ago. I have a 4 GB flash drive and a 32 GB external HD which have just about every argument I have prepared in the last 14+ years. I got tired of digging for the same ol' lame ol' arguments over and over again. So now instead of searching the net I just look up the topic or scripture on my flash drive and post the response. Sometimes I have to tweak it a little.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Ever wonder how you can be obeying God by debating and arguing your time away? The Gospel isn't up for debate is it, just the suppose-tos meanings and additions to it? If you debated whether or not to turn the other cheek, no problem and no debate. If you debated if homosexuality is ok with God, no problem for real believers in Jesus, no debate. If you debated whether we were to love our enemies, no problem and no debate, right?! Where are we suppose our have problems and this rather wasteful time debating? We aren't. The Gospel is undebatable, right? So, if Jesus said it, stop, we believe it, stop, right? However, outside areas or grey areas away from Jesus' Gospel (his teachings and commands) are suppose to be for Christians to spend all their time wrangling and fussing over, and so they are excused from obeying Jesus' special command to his followers, "to be known by your love for one another," right?!

Aren't we really just trying to visualize the kind of persons that God and Jesus are? It seems a little strange to not know the God that we believe in! We have what Jesus gave us, which is mostly for us to be this way and that, and to be known by our love: "a loving, caring, giving and humble individual and spreading this that we follow and believe in (the Gospel, the undebatable one). We know what we are suppose to be: this fantastic child of God. Are we calling ourselves Christian with big "ifs", God is this way or that, and so we can't accept him if he isn't? The Gospel is about how we are to be, somehow this should tell us how God is to be. Let us concentrate as Jesus commanded us on ourselves (to obey his Gospel commands) and spreading this word of the Gospel to all the world, everywhere. Debating and arguing non-Gospel things isn't our calling. If we are this fantastic follower of Christ, we won't have time for all this chatter, right? Someone, help me here....

It seems that as debaters and arguing that we just don't meet Jesus' standard for followers. We should be concerned about ourselves and believe in the undebatable Gospel, and not what we don't know and shouldn't worry about, "we trust God don't we?"

If we are busy meditating and following Jesus' Gospel, we shouldn't have all these busy thoughts, which could actually be coming from the Devil anyway, right, his worries and doubts (busy work)?

We don't have doubt in the Gospel, so follow it and be busy with it. The only way that you can be known to be truly right is that you are truly a follower of Jesus and his one Gospel, period, right? By the way, it would be even easier to follow Jesus if we set aside all that was added, in which Jesus didn't even concern himself with, and just leave it out. Concentrate on how we are to be, and not how God and Jesus are to be, that is their business anyway, we believe in Jesus and so follow him.

This is where I find things like Trinity to be most un-useful, confusing, unnecessary and dividing. Jesus taught us to concentrate on ourselves, but Trinity (man's theology outside of the teachings and concerns of Jesus) teaches us to concentrate of God and Jesus. Which is going to get you into Heaven, obeying Jesus or this theology outside of his concern? Doesn't anyone see this besides myself? We can only know God by obeying and following Jesus Christ alone! The Holy Spirit and Christ within us will help us see Him. This is where faith comes in. We know only in partial and hope in God by trusting him and his son. So, we obey Jesus in our faith and it is complete by the inclusion of the Holy Spirit in us. Where is there insufficiency? Can we walk in this way?

The best place for the temple of God is within us, as Jesus said it is within us. Fellowship starts within us, so God's church is within us. Man's theologies, institutional churches and their doctrines are not like the personal relationships of following Jesus alone that we must have with God to have his fellowship and church within us, correct?

Sorry to be long winded. Thanks to anyone able to read through.

 

[twob4me]

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Flaming
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[Timothew]

I was more thinking about when I undergo my future crematory experience, ie, I talked to the person operating voicing my concern of my skull not totally evaporating...he assurred me they have a hotter fire than before, and all turns into vapor and a little dust for next of kin..I thanked him.

My point: Matt.10:28, "afraid" When one completes partying out in/out of the churches only to vaporize + a little dust, there's no "terrifying fear" (forever in the lake of fire tormented inwardly and outwardly) due to distressing the Kingdom of God., ie, one can be complacent, indifferent, and disobedient with no forever consequences? Doesn't work this way...like in today's time.

"destroy both soul (no vaporizing here as invisible) and body in Gehenna." Summarizing this is not a childlike fear, the motive of filial obedience, but the terrifying fear of God's holy, burning wrath wich would have to strike us if we yeilded to the fear of men and denied His Word and His will.

On Gehenna as a designation for hell, the place of the damed, "Soul and body in Gehenna" implies the bodily resurrection of the damned....nooooo poofing!

Old Jack just thinking out loud again.

It is a misrepresentation of annihilationism to say that the complete and utter total destruction of the wicked is nothing for the wicked to fear, that there is no consequence for sin. I don't think that you really believe that being absolutely destroyed is really no consequence at all. If there were no consequence for sin, then why are they destroyed at all? Can you develop this better for me?